Attacked
So... I filled the pool up and got the water pistols out!!! Hes worn out now lol  I dont understand why he didnt go for him back? He just let this dog pinn him down  I really wanted bloo to get up and bite him back , my heart was thudding., its the second time a dog has tried to attack him. Ive been told dogs dont like oes for some reason is this true?? No dog seems to like bloo besides other oess, and ive only met one oescalled paddy |
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| Hmm I don't think it's true the dogs don't like OES because Schubert gets along with most dogs. Was the lab a puppy? My old OES Pita gotten bitten by my parent's dog once. Their dog would be so loving and happy with other dogs, but she just hated Pita for some reason and would lunge to bite Pita, especially when Pita was excited. How old is Bloo again? We just try to be extra careful with Schubert and ONLY socialize him with a dog whose temperament we know already and we've seen interact with other dogs and kids (although that's still not a guarantee). So far he's interacted with more humans than dogs because of that. Will you be going back there for puppy training? |
| sorry to hear that. it's best to introduce strange dogs to each other on leash and watch for behavior signs before allowing further play. both dogs can have great temperament and yet for unknown reasons may not get along. as far as other dogs not liking oes, that's hogwash, somebody's perception of bad experiences. my oes lil brother was a lab/mix and both also played well with others, but as i said, i always watched for obvious signs before letting them all free to run.  |
| I would have made a point to talk with the owners/managers/instructors.....whom ever...to insist all dogs must be on leash at ALL times. Such aggression......I'd kick that lab out of class. He needs more serious intervention......and his owners. |
| How did the other owners respond? What did the trainer say? If the trainer knew about this and did nothing or said nothing, I would not have much faith in that trainer. At the very least it should have been used in the class as a 'teachable moment' to help all of you learn. |
Odd. I don't normally get this from labs, but yes a number of herding and working breeds seem to react to our breed, that is, if the dog is even borderline reactive to begin with. Even normally peaceful dogs at agility trials will eyeball my dogs like they just encountered satan in hairy drag  . OES are rare, and in coat, odd looking. PLUS - many OES are RUDE by other dog standards. My younger ones certainly can be. Some OES just carry themselves in a way that makes them a target, and then there are the ones like mine that are super friendly and though they don't usually want to go up to most strange dogs, they want to say hi to ALL strange people and they don't care whose dogs they step over to get there. I'm very sorry this happened but Bloo did the right thing by not fighting back, The other idiot dog should have recognized his signalling submission and accepted that and in essence stood down. I don't know that I'd feel comfortable in a class with this dog in it, but perhaps the instructor can work something out. In one agility class, many years ago, I had to leave the building with Mad (who was not at all rude and didn't even offend most border collies) when a certain dobe was running (off lead) because this dobe got his jollies by running over to her and lunging at her when he was supposed to be running. She started taking it personally. Dog was an idiot, owner equally so. I would have cheerfully strangled both of them but since jail time would have interferred with agility training I opted to move Mad to another class  Kristine |
| Good to read that Bloo is fine. Ripley was sort of attacked the first night of puppy school by a chi/doxie mix who for no known reason came lungeing at him. I had Ripley on a short, tight lead and was able to pull him back so he couldn't respond. But he had that look of "what the heck just happened". Good thing he is so laid back and sweet. The trainer did use it as a lesson so kudos to her. |
Mad Dog wrote: Odd. I don't normally get this from labs, but yes a number of herding and working breeds seem to react to our breed, that is, if the dog is even borderline reactive to begin with. Even normally peaceful dogs at agility trials will eyeball my dogs like they just encountered satan in hairy drag . OES are rare, and in coat, odd looking. PLUS - many OES are RUDE by other dog standards. My younger ones certainly can be. Some OES just carry themselves in a way that makes them a target, and then there are the ones like mine that are super friendly and though they don't usually want to go up to most strange dogs, they want to say hi to ALL strange people and they don't care whose dogs they step over to get there. I wanted to add to this. Not only are OES rude by doggy standards but in coat its really hard for other dogs to read them. No tail (for most) no visible eyes and you can't tell if their hackles are raised or not. Most dogs are generally good with my OES, Lily. but I agree there are some dogs that seem to single them out. |
| Unfortunately, I have seen this alot with Labs lately. They don't seem to be the same dogs they once were. We had a similiar experience at a dog park with a a few labs at one time and within seconds I got my dog out of there and never went back. You know, not all dogs have to like a dog park and not all dogs have to get along. Just like people. If your dog doens't do well there, dont go back. I don't think it has to do with being an OES - althougn our breed is not known for fighting ability..Glad he is okay and pick another place to socialize him... |
Ashley wrote: I don't think it has to do with being an OES. It does. And if you're going to do agility you need to be aware of that before you enter a trial, or run your dogs shaved. They are, as previously noted, hard for some dogs to read, and some dogs "attack" first and ask questions later. I learned that the hard way too. Kristine |
| Me too (And Kristine, don't tell Marnie it was a boxer! )It was a case of the "you don't look like a dog"...and it was a good thing he had a lot of hair at the time to deflect the bite/attack to the neck... OK, there was a pit bull once too...and I got called a "neurotic lady" when I laid into the redneck dude who owned the dog  ...as he was pulling my dog's hair out of his dog's mouth...save us from the idiots out there... |
| It never happened before they were all on leads, we just got out car on carpaark, i asked mom to hold him, the woman with lab let him say hello next minute bloo was straddled to the floor squeling! The ower got lab off, and said oh im so sorry etc... She told the trainer he just said you better pack that in rubus! The lab worked fine throught the sesion, bloo lost his flow and didnt want to even do sit and down! He was so happy all morning then seemed to drop. Bloo is 6 months i measured hieght, he is 22 incches tall!! The lab i think is around 1 and half. He has a tail, it was waggling so much and then went between his legs cowering crying. Trouble is is that bloo has to go training and as long as i keep bloo as far away as possible from that dog The other month on park bloo used to play with a xbreed, we went again met the same dog who got him on the floor too!!! I feel so sorry for him, not having any doggy friends He needs a doggy friend thats bigger than him and has the ame energy, thats why i think this meet up in birmingham would be great, we met another oes the other week, and they pinned each other down nipping each other, pulling each others fur out, mouthing biting etc... he loved it! Shame we dont see many around anymore they are rare. Labs are getting strange over the years, most i see are quite aggressive towards dogs |
| Might be best to try to form a play group of known dogs/owners rather than just the random public. We don't have control over who we might meet and how they control or don't control their dog or the behavior of another dog. I hate for a dog to have bad experiences. It messes with their confidence and response to the unknown, some can become reactive due to a learned experience. I think they need to quickly have several good experiences if a bad one should happen to occur to lessen the chance of any lasting effects. I'm not a trainer... just my opinion living closely with dogs. I do know a trainer who has a mini-dog that she uses for class demonstrations. The dog ended up being attacked by a young dog in her class. That dog was left with fear aggression toward other dogs that she's now trying to work through. The dog now lashes out at other dogs in some situations. She's been told to muzzle her dog and immerse her in all kinds of controlled situations where she can learn to trust again. So it's important to make sure negative experiences aren't lasting ones. |
| Wait a minute..are you saing OES get attacked by other dogs becasue they are OES? I'm confused...how the heck do dogs know which ones are OES? why wouldn't they be able to read an OES the same way they read any other dog? Not trying to be sarcastic. Really. Just not understanding the statement... |
AnInnocentEvil wrote: Mad Dog wrote: Odd. I don't normally get this from labs, but yes a number of herding and working breeds seem to react to our breed, that is, if the dog is even borderline reactive to begin with. Even normally peaceful dogs at agility trials will eyeball my dogs like they just encountered satan in hairy drag . OES are rare, and in coat, odd looking. PLUS - many OES are RUDE by other dog standards. My younger ones certainly can be. Some OES just carry themselves in a way that makes them a target, and then there are the ones like mine that are super friendly and though they don't usually want to go up to most strange dogs, they want to say hi to ALL strange people and they don't care whose dogs they step over to get there. I wanted to add to this. Not only are OES rude by doggy standards but in coat its really hard for other dogs to read them. No tail (for most) no visible eyes and you can't tell if their hackles are raised or not. Most dogs are generally good with my OES, Lily. but I agree there are some dogs that seem to single them out. Ashley wrote: Wait a minute..are you saing OES get attacked by other dogs becasue they are OES? I'm confused...how the heck do dogs know which ones are OES? why wouldn't they be able to read an OES the same way they read any other dog? Not trying to be sarcastic. Really. Just not understanding the statement... |
| Yes, I've had this experience many times with my full coated OES. Dogs that have never had issues with other dogs have often reacted with aggression to my OES. And many times my dogs weren't even paying them any attention, they just charged for no reason. I think that is very true that other dogs have a hard time reading them. Cindy |
| I can see the potential for problems if an OES is in full coat and another dog has never seen one before. They have no tail so tail positioning is unreadable. There's little facial expressions because their whole head is covered in long hair so they may see just a nose and hopefully 2 eyes. It's also more difficult for another dog to read body language or any posturing because of all that glorious hair. And they can look like a lumbering haystack.  I can see how an inexperienced dog could be alarmed.All of my dogs prior to my full-OESs had tails. I remember distinctly wondering how I would be able to tell whether Emma and Darby were happy, mad, etc. because I didn't have just the tail to use as an indicator.  |
I've never heard about this potential problem with dogs attacking an OES because they were in full coat, no coat, no tail or whatever  Do other dogs really notice if a dog is in full coat or not? I'm not understanding....There is more to reading a dog that a tail...ears back, posture, even without a tail, eye contact, stiffness...not sure having hair or no tail would hinder OES to the point where other dogs would attack it???? Lots of dogs have no tail...please help me understand this.... |
| http://www.pawsacrossamerica.com/interpret.html http://www.aspcabehavior.org/articles/50/Canine-Body-Language.aspx Those two are just to start. Dogs rely on body language. Why do you think they adapted so well to us? Because that's how they communicate and as do we. Something with 15lbs of fur on it w/no tail, hair around its face and ears is not going to be as readable as something with little fur and a tail. Please read up on this more than the links I gave you. Not being able to read a dog's body language or reading it wrong can potentially put you or your dog's in harms way. Here is a good example. If someone isn't talking and their body language is erratic or does not match up to what body language there is, it makes you nervous. Its something out of the normal, something you don't recognize. Unlike dogs though, we as people have speech. Some dogs are more reactive than others when put in unfamiliar situations like that and it results in an attack. |
Ashley wrote: I've never heard about this potential problem with dogs attacking an OES because they were in full coat, no coat, no tail or whatever Do other dogs really notice if a dog is in full coat or not? I'm not understanding....There is more to reading a dog that a tail...ears back, posture, even without a tail, eye contact, stiffness...not sure having hair or no tail would hinder OES to the point where other dogs would attack it???? Lots of dogs have no tail...please help me understand this.... Dogs read eachother a lot by "tail wags" Personally I read dogs by tail wags or nubbin wiggles...If a dog is approaching one of mine and is wagging I assume they are ok  Do I let them run in full force HECK NO! We do have majority of OES so...I have to watch the nubbins! My wheatie when he is ticked drops his tail and it is time for a break for him! To explain eye contact, I now have four deaf dogs (two my own two foster pups) They must have cleaned clear view to see the other dogs and their motions! I know deaf is not the norm but, just saying this is a way I read them myself Ears back, I guess I am not familiar with? My husky mix in his younger days hated our OES Our Briard with a big huge tail is doing better with fosters but, when we first got her she hated the OES as well After fostering over maybe 50 dogs I feel I can safely say a lot is said with the tail! Of course, I love my nubbins but, I can see that other dogs may not read it the same! |
| First I must own up to limited experience with OES as Tiggy is my first OES but I've noticed the same thing about some other dogs freaking out and attacking Tiggy when I've previously observed them in class for weeks and they've had no problems with ANY other dogs. I also will say that as Kristine also mentioned OES, well Tiggy in my experience can chose to completely ignore dog manners. She will sometimes run right up to a strange dogs face  I wonder if it's because she's in full coat and has lots of hair around her eyes. Many dogs are fine with it, some are offended and refuse to have anything to do withe her and the odd dog has been offended enough to attack her for her rudeness. And I can't really blame them because it is very rude in the dog world to go straight up to a strange dog and stare it in the eye. And also as Kristine mentioned Tiggy is more than happy to barge right over the top of any dog to share a bit of love with said dog's owner and if the dog is the least bit protective of their owner they can feel the need to protect their owner from the big, hairy, crazy beast that is charging up to in their opinion attack and in hers to say a great big friendly hello.Also most OES like to play very physically and that is too much for a lot of dogs. Even my dalmo who was 5 years old when I brought Tiggy home at 8 weeks old gets freaked out sometimes when they are playing she just gets too over the top for him and he wont play anymore. For what it's worth Tiggy has a tail and usually leaves a trail of destruction behind her due to the excessive wagginess of it so I'm not convinced it's the tail that is the problem. Maybe OES just speak a different doggy dialect to most other dogs. Kind of comprehensible when they get used to it but only just. |
I do know about reading dogs. Actually took a course in it...maybe I should take it again  |
| Yes, they do get "attacked" more - and it's all about presentation and body language. If they are shaved or partial coated - no big deal....they present as pretty much a normal bouncy dog. But try the opposite - the hairy dog - the other dog can't read or see several usual signs: The eyes to make contact - this unnerves other dogs. No tail - another body language gauge, so it further worries the other dog. And gait - if they move correctly, they move with a rolling, bearlike gait...hmm, there you have a THIRD feature that gets the other dog. Add in an in-your-face pushiness, likely trying to herd the dog also...well, you can see why they end up with many initial encounters being not that great. |
| I agree with dawn Dogs (and wolves) read each others body language It is hard for humans to read a shaggy sheepdog (I am talking about rescue and those that are not familar with the breed) In a shaggy coat you cannot see the eyes, see where the tail is and see if the hair is bristled This is not the fault of the OES but it happens. When I evaluated dogs for our therapy program I always had a band to tie up the hair on the little scruffies so I could see their eyes. Speaking of dogs "fighting" whenever I have a couple of fosters and they have a run in with each other or one of my dogs Guinness runs and slams into the guilty party to break it up! I have never had a dog do that before.......... 4dognight from sunny and wonderful NM  |
| !. OESD looks alot bigger than most dogs when not cut. 2. Most dogs can see there hair go up but you cannot on a oes 3. depends on what breed the other dog is 4. The way how the dog has been brought up We have a lab as well & he thinks he owns the park even at 13 years of age. So I have to keep an eye on him. He never makes the first move but trouble seems to follow him but he has never had a problem with a bitch or another puppy. Our oes puppy wants to play with the world & gets chased by a few dogs but our lab comes over to the rescue & the other dog tend to clear off. I would say most owners don't know how to look after there dogs when they take them out in public places or should not own them |
| You know, I don't see my dogs as being big...used to them I guess...And I haven't had a dog with a tail in so long I even forgot what a tail was like...Neither of my dogs did well at the dog park...and maybe that's why Thanks for all the info.... |
| I was in a Fly ball class and a border collie was totally eyeballing Langley. So I kept my eye on him and after his run did he bolt straight for Langley and go for his (then intact parts) well I just put my foot out and stopped the dog and causally scooped Langley behind me. I have noticed dogs that love other dogs don't even want to look at my dogs. I don't bother with dog parks anymore. That is more the owners than anything. But my trainer always starts her class by intruding whatever dog I have and say. That your dogs might react differently to Langley he doesn't give off signs like other dogs. (He only has one sign "goof") but it is cool she realizes. |
| Thanks for the stories and help. Bloo has been snapped at this week by a staffe x, he has been growled at and attempted to be bit by german shepard, and got barked to death by a x breed. Bloo goes barding up to other dogs wanting to play, he doesnt realise he has to be gentle around some dogs. He has two friends at the park harvey and cassie, they are both retreiverdoodles. They nip and clash jaws, its lovely to watch them play. He has 1 friend at training Kansas, shes a briard type dog (dont know the breed)  He plays lovely with them, all the other dogs ive met, theres been loads seem really aggressive towards bloo. I dont know why. i have to keep him ona lead, because he gets snarled nipped at by others.Shadow my aunties dog is lovely, sweet natured dog, but when bloo met her for the day, all we had was a load of grrr... snap snap!! And whining from them. I thought they would play together but we saw a acompletely different side to her. I think its because shes not socialised. Bloo only wanted to play with her :.( Have been told theres a lady up the top by us with an oes, havent managed to catch her yet. I uld really like bloo to have a oes buddy!! Some dog the same kind. Its such ashame when they cant socialize properly because other dogs are visious towards us (sorry.. not saying all dogs are visious, just mainly the ones we have come across.)Harvey,kansas,cassie are all large breeds i htink thats why they get on so well Its well funny to watch them!  |
| You guys need to read this: http://www.nesr.info/images-english-she ... say-hi.pdf It will clear up a lot about your overly "friendly" young dogs. |
| I love that piece, Dawn. If we don't read the dogs correctly, the reacting dog is wrongly blamed. Young pups and dogs need to learn how to more appropriately initiate play and also learn when a dog wants to be left alone. Dogs deserve their own personal space... |
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