When can you take puppy outdoors?
I wasn't sure if that was overprotective or should be followed? We'll be going to the vet the Monday we get him so I'm sure he'll have some advice but just wanted to get your guys feedback. Once we have a new picture, I'll post in pictures  |
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| Personally, I think that is being overly neurotic and protective. I wouldn't go to a dog park or a really frequent dog hang-out.... but, you certainly can walk the dog and bring the dog to places. At 8 weeks old, we were already bringing Dahlia to playgroups at her training school where all the dogs have proof of vaccinations and health. We also started to bring her to various places to get her socialized. I wouldn't go to Petco or PetSmart of some place like that... but, if you have a small local pet store then that would be OK. I would just use some smart judgement. Congrats on your new bundle of joy!!!!  |
| We were told to steer clear of dog parks and PetSmart until after the second round of shots and that was from our vet. We ventured out at 9 weeks to the local out door mall and haven't looked back... Vance |
| Yeah, I definitely get what you're both saying about dog parks, etc. So it looks like it could be a bit of over-protection and taking on short walks won't be a problem. |
| When Dahlia was young, I set up playdates for her with friend's dogs that I knew. The best advice I was given was..... 100 different places, 100 different people and 100 different scenarios in the first 100 days..... This will help you have a more socialized and confident puppy. It has worked for our family. There is a tremendous amount you can do at 9 weeks old and still avoid the hot spots like the dog parks and pet stores..... |
| Live by that '100' rule. Short walks around your own neighborhood is a must in my opinion. Gets them used to seeing what they will regularly early which I feel reduces some shock of the odd things like loud cars/bikes, groups of school kids and such. This has worked great with Caitlyn. Vance |
| Cool. I think we'll be good on the aspect as we live in more of city living environment than suburbs or rural areas. Lots of noises and people around which is good!! i think it will be important as the breeder already confirmed she kind of lives in the "middle of nowhere" so she said it would be important to introduce to lots of sounds, people, etc. Hoping to get a new picture soon but more excited just to get the pup  |
| Maybe you can sneak your new pup to Dayton in several weeks for the Sheep-In... Yeah it's at a dog park, but if you plan on coming a little later than the rest, you can hang outside the fenced dog area under my big tent and then hit the big city park for a bit with everyone else. I'm sure I'm speaking for everyone else that we'd LOVE to see the new kid in town. Vance |
| Haha, i was already told of the Dayton event but I dont think I'll want to take out the pup that early, at least for that short of drive, etc. maybe next time! |
Puppies receive protection from parvovirus in the colostrum, or first milk produced by their mothers. This protection is variable depending on whether the mother had antibodies against parvovirus and how much colostrum a puppy received in its first 24 hours of life. In some cases this protection is not conferred. This variability in maternal protection is the major reason a series of vaccinations is given to puppies. A starting date for vaccination is picked based on the puppy’s ability to respond to infection and the likely timing of exposure to the disease. In general the first vaccination in the puppy series is given between 6 and 8 weeks of age. Only a portion of puppies are capable of responding to this initial vaccine series but since it isn’t practical to determine in advance which puppies can respond, all are vaccinated. The puppies that need the protection get it and the rest do not benefit from the first vaccine. At least 2 weeks later and preferably 3 to 4 weeks later, a second vaccination is given. A larger percentage of puppies respond to this vaccine, but not all of them. The vaccination series is continued at 3 to 4 week intervals until it is likely that all puppies who can respond to vaccination have done so. The number of vaccinations in the series and the age at which the final puppy series vaccination is given will depend on the type of vaccine used, the breed of the puppy, the puppy’s lifestyle, the owner’s experiences and the veterinarian’s experiences with the disease. Vaccines are produced by several vaccine manufacturers for prevention of parvovirus. Most of the currently available vaccines are high antigen vaccines which break through maternal antibody protection earlier than the the original parvovirus vaccines. These vaccines also provide protection in most puppies when given between 12 and 14 weeks of age. The older parvovirus vaccines had to be given until 16 or even 20 weeks of age to ensure maximum protection. Of the currently available vaccines still in use only the Vanguard ™ series of vaccines from Pfizer Animal Health ™ are the older type of vaccine (as of 2006, per “Infectious Diseases of the Dog and Cat” by Greene). There is a period of time, between 2 and 3 weeks, when the parvovirus strains found in most infections can cause disease before there is a chance for vaccinations to work. At the present time there is no way to avoid this period. More frequent vaccination is not helpful and vaccinations given closer than two weeks apart may even impair immunity. For this reason, it is best to avoid exposure to potential sites of infection, such as dog parks, dog shows and kennels until after the last vaccine in the series. It is also important to remember that the veterinarian’s office is a potential site of contamination, especially the area outside the veterinary hospital. Puppies should be walked directly to the door and should be kept away from other puppies in the waiting room that appear to be ill. Veterinary hospitals and kennels try very hard to properly clean up after incidences of diarrhea and in areas in which exposure can occur but it is hard to do this perfectly. Parvovirus is very hardy in the environment. If your house becomes contaminated by the virus clean any surfaces that can be cleaned with chlorine bleach diluted 1 oz of bleach to 32 oz of water. The disinfectant potassium peroxymonosulfate (Trifectant ™ or Virkon ™) is also effective. It is extremely hard to disinfect a yard. Realistically, if your yard has been potentially contaminated with parvovirus it would probably be best not to get a new puppy and expose it to the yard for at least six months and nine months would be better. Areas of the yard that are exposed to sunlight will require less time for the virus to die than areas of the yard that are shaded, moist and sandy. At the present time there is not a disinfectant product marketed for use in yards that has been proven to be effective against parvovirus.  Read more: Infectious Diseases of Dogs - Parvovirus - VetInfo Robin |
Eggbert wrote: Haha, i was already told of the Dayton event but I dont think I'll want to take out the pup that early, at least for that short of drive, etc. maybe next time! Let me know later when everyone gets more comfortable and we'll arrange a smaller play-date. Vance |
| Sounds good. I meant that "long" of drive...not short hahah. |
Eggbert wrote: I wasn't sure if that was overprotective or should be followed? We'll be going to the vet the Monday we get him so I'm sure he'll have some advice but just wanted to get your guys feedback. Hm...why second guess your dog's breeder? I'm just curious. If I found out somebody who was interested in a puppy from me was second-guessing what I recommended I'd be thinking the person and I probably weren't a good fit and they needed to find a breeder whose opinions they have more confidence in  That said, balancing socialization and safety will always be a bit of a judgement call. Breeders who have been around for a few years have probably seen some bad outcomes which makes many of them lean more towards the cautious side of things. I know my co-breeder is like this. The longer I know her, the more I listen to her Quite honestly, in my experience outside of the home/yard socialization at that young an age is not actually as critical as one might think, IF the puppy goes to a busy home, ideally with a sensible pack of dogs in residence. Puppies who go to inexperienced homes, or homes with no other dogs, or who weren't bred with temperament in mind, these are the puppies that are in the greatest need of extensive socialization. With the inexperienced/no other dog homes, the pup may be better off staying with the breeder till 12 weeks old anyway. That said, there are things you can do to satisfy both sides of the spectrum (safety/socialization). Throw puppy parties. Invite your friends to come meet & play with the puppy. Ask them to bring their kids. (Give puppy time out and naps/crate time if things get too wild and wooly - you want them to enjoy, not go into overload, which playing with kids for hours can sometimes cause) You don't need 30 people to show up at once. Individually and in groups, you can arrange to have a steady stream of people visit to meet the puppy and still have the fun of showing him or he off. Take them to visit select friends/family members whose houses/yards also are unlikely to be hotbeds of canine pathogens. The same thing with other dogs, if you don't have built-in fourlegged puppy raisers. Friends who have temperamentally rock solid dogs who have a track record of tolerating puppies (not all dogs like puppies, and that's fair as puppies are basically small, excessively hairy terrorists and not all adult dogs appreciate that), who are properly vaccinated themselves and who don't themselves frequent a lot of dog hot spots (shows/dog parks etc) could stop by regularly to play. I don't take puppies to dog parks, period, until they are at least 6 mos old, if not older. And that's not just because of the risk of exposing them to bad bugs, but equally so the risk of exposing them to "bad" dogs. Truly bad experiences with other dogs at an early age can set the stage for fear of other dogs and the associated reactivity/aggression. We think of socialization as getting dogs out and meeting new dogs and people and cats etc etc and seeing new places and hearing new sounds, and that's part of it, but this is also the time we teach them important lessons like tolerating being brushed and having their nails trimmed and tolerating a blow dryer (even if we only have a small human hand held one) and lots and lots and lots of handling. A good breeder has already been working on these things, so you're just continuing their good work. Yes, the first 9 weeks are important, but these things need to be kept up. Think about how much physical handling an OES has to be willing to cheerfully put up with in the name of all that hair. There are lots of noises within the house. Lots of noises outside in the yard (depending on living conditions, things like trash pick up, snow blowing, lawn mowing etc etc), . Get inventive and go out of your way to think of new and exciting things to carefully expose them to. New surfaces to walk on. There are so many things you can do that don't require a very high degree of risk of pathogens. By all means take regular, short car rides. Depending on the weather, maybe puppy can tag along for errands, if they're short ones. Get inventive. During the 8-12 week period, you don't want to overload them with experiences either, so being able to control what they encounter is actually not a bad thing. For most puppies there is a fear period in there somewhere where you can actually do more harm than good. Dawn's Chewie left the nest at 16 weeks old if memory serves. He was not dragged all over creation. He was raised in a rural environment, with lots of other dogs. He's pretty darn rock solid, and so are his siblings. Mind you, with Dawn's canine experience level, common sense and own varied critters at home I'd trust her to bring a puppy home with her at 8 weeks old and she'd probably do a better job than I do if anything. Raising puppy is an art form, really. It can be learned, though. Kristine |
| Yeah, i'm not "Second guessing" my breeder, I just wanted to know if i had to be super crazy about it like NEVER take the dog outside or if taking on a short walk or introducing to friends is an issue. If anything I'm more on the protective side anyway so I think it will be ok but I just wanted the experience of MANY rather than just one. Sorry if it came across the wrong way but I'm like this with everything, I like multiple opinions and getting multiple opinions is easy to obtain now with the internet |
Eggbert wrote: Sorry if it came across the wrong way but I'm like this with everything, I like multiple opinions and getting multiple opinions is easy to obtain now with the internet Yes, it's true, there are lots of opinions out there, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're GOOD opinions...mine included  And not a reflection of this specific thread. What you have to keep in mind, depending on the type of breeder you're getting your puppy from, is that the good ones put their blood, sweat and tears into the puppies they produce - when you pick up one of their puppies you walk off with a part of their heart, they want you to be successful for their puppy's sake, and they have more experience raising puppies than most. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: Eggbert wrote: Sorry if it came across the wrong way but I'm like this with everything, I like multiple opinions and getting multiple opinions is easy to obtain now with the internet Yes, it's true, there are lots of opinions out there, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're GOOD opinions...mine included And not a reflection of this specific thread. What you have to keep in mind, depending on the type of breeder you're getting your puppy from, is that the good ones put their blood, sweat and tears into the puppies they produce - when you pick up one of their puppies you walk off with a part of their heart, they want you to be successful for their puppy's sake, and they have more experience raising puppies than most. Kristine Very valid points and appreciate your honest feedback. |
| The most important thing to do is use your common sense. Benson is already going as many places with us as we can reasonably take her. We are careful to think through each trip - will there be strange dogs? Will it be sensory overload? Is she calm enough yet to enjoy "this" thing? And I agree that, at this age, dog parks and doggy day care are both very bad ideas. (Our local bark park won't allow dogs under 4 months old into the park anyway.) I really like the "100 different places, 100 different people and 100 different scenarios in the first 100 days" idea. Another suggestion from a trainer (which we keep in mind) is a "1,2,3,4" rule of thumb: For every week between the third week the puppy comes home until 9 months of age, try to meet ONE unfamiliar dog; go to TWO unfamiliar places (and return visits don't count); interact with THREE new things (like paper bags, cobblestones, etc); and meet FOUR new people (which is easy if you get to 2 new places). Your breeder is (hopefully) quite knowledgeable, as is your vet. Ultimately, you will need to use your best judgement as to where and how soon to take her out for more than just her potty breaks. As for getting multiple opinions, as my grandfather always said, "It's free advice. You don't have to take it." And in the internet age, I've taken to saying, "Just because it's written in black and white doesn't make it true." Sounds like you have all of that in mind! Good luck, and congratulations on your new addition!  |
| It is terrific if you have family or friends who don't just have dogs, but who have well-adjusted dogs that your puppy can spend time with. We puppysat a couple of weeks ago and it was fascinating to watch the three older dogs instruct young Monty on the proper way to be a proper dog. As for the dog park thing, I know that at our dog park there are a few dogs that are great with puppies but there are some that, while terrific dogs generally, just can't stand puppies and can be a bit scary. Best off to find some nice dogs you know and do it that way. |
| Per Kristine's (Mad Dog) comment - Yes, Chewie was 16 weeks. Many dog expert friends expressed concern "oh, that's too old", "you missed the window period"...etc. ...but those who've met him will all agree, that in no way happened! He did spend the 1st 4 months at home, did some travels with his litter, but mostly home in the woods with all the other resident OES. (Marnie and Kristine's combined). He was handled, groomed, messed all over with and had the benefit of his canine family as well, showing him how to be a proper puppy. I feel great knowing I got a puppy who had been given such a good and thoughtful start to to life!  I also live rural, so I made a huge effort to go anywhere and everywhere. We took almost nightly walks in town at my daughter's house....at the time their house was on a busy street, on a hill halfway up the valley. So lots of engine noises, motorcycles revving and all that. He went to classes with me right from the start and we went to shows, therapy visits, malls, by fire stations, to ball games, running errands, in elevators, met kids, seniors, people in w/c's, walkers, with behavior issues, different cultures and races, anything I could possibly think of! Back to the OP comment.... It is really going to depend on where you live with what is safe for a very young pup. Me in the country - pups at my house are relatively safe. It's only my own dogs, no strays, no other foot traffic. That is so not the norm for most though!! Not everyone is that lucky as me . Many of you unfortunately have to contend with everyone and their brother having access to spots very near your house - sidewalks, streets, etc. All shared and "contaminated" area right outside your door, so to speak.If I had to live like that, I would have private playdates in my fenced backyard - invite those you know and trust. Take trips places as often as possible in the car (hoping our weather cools and it will be more practical and safe) to expose. Go to similar safe places as often as possible - other friends homes, etc. The initial concern time really does pass quick, basic shots will soon be done, and you can continue on your way doing lots of fun stuff! |
| One of the things I did when I got Mandy and Li'l Brittches as puppies, I would take them as many places as possible including PetSmart, Petco, Target, the grocery stor etc. BUT I would pot them in the shopping carts with their rugs. They met many people, heards different noises and they loved it. So did I because I loved showing them off. Now there was a bit of a down side. Brittches thought she ALWAYS had to ride in the cart, even as an adult. People would laugh watching me boost her butt into the cart. She would put her front feet on the edge and I would lift. Boy, she trained me well!!!!!! |
| I just want to add....could not get better advice than what Kristine and Dawn have given. My post was the parvo advice,only because that virus scares the begeevees out of me. Socialization is highly important for an all around great dog in the end. Robin |
| The parvo/vaccine info was excellent and very relevant, Robin. Marnie brought parvo home with her once, on her shoes, most likely, many years ago, and just about goes ballistic when she sees a young puppy out in a dog-rich setting. Apparently, and even though her puppies all survived, it's not something you soon forget. Kristine |
| I have to do the same with our farm. When I go herding someplace else, I wear overshoes I remove and bag up, or separate shoes I totally remove and bag for later cleaning before they are worn around my sheep and stock.  More disease gets spread from flock to flock on the feet of people, dogs and stock... and it goes both ways - I wear the same shoes CLEAN onto other's property with stock. |
| Yes, unfortunately this virus can be brought in on shoes,tires,etc. A lady in Texas that knew Kaye Fletcher,that had one of my pups, came down with parvo and because the pup's owner laxed on the last set of shots,he did not make it, because of that. She had other OES and had to take all the carpet up and also use bleach inside and out in hopes of killing the virus.Luckily all her other dogs were up to date on their shots. So,yes, I am like Marnie,very, very afraid and very, very careful and more than likely sound like a nut case when given instructions on what can and cannot do with a young pup. Robin |
| I want to thank you all again on your advice and really appreciate it. This was the type of info I was looking for so happy that i posted! |
| You know where else is a great place to socialize puppies? Minnesota, that's where. Sorry to be obnoxious. I find I am just in love with your baby. |
tgir wrote: You know where else is a great place to socialize puppies? Minnesota, that's where. Sorry to be obnoxious. I find I am just in love with your baby. Hey - I second that...and we're only a couple hour drive apart, so you could get 2 visits in for the price of 1!  |
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