Back from the vet. Not sure what to think.
I didn't have another stool sample as he hasn't gone since Wednesday morning. But I brought a urine sample in because he's been peeing large quantities everytime he goes & I haven't seen him drink more than normal. The sample I got today filled a 21 oz. cup three quarters of the way. And he had a little more than that a bit later that I didn't capture. So the vet tested his urine and the specific gravity came back 1.000. Not good. It should be 1.035 or higher. They get nervous when it gets between 1.008 and 1.012. His urine has the specific gravity of water. And it's not clear, as would be expected of a liquid with a sg of 1.000. It's yellow. The vet says that could be caused by billyrubin (from the kidneys) or red blood cells (from the liver). The vet seems very concerned. They took blood for an expanded panel. They have to send the blood out to a lab for the expanded panel. They want to check it for kidney, liver, and pancreatic enzymes, red & white blood cell counts, thyroid function among other things. The name of the test on the receipt says "TOTAL BODY (CBC/CHEM/T4) SA120". I should get the results tomorrow around 9 AM EST. After they took blood, I didn't notice where they took the blood (no tape on his leg). I asked the vet and she said they took it from his neck because she wanted to make sure his veins were in good shape if they have to put IVs in them. The vet certainly did not have an easy-breezy demeanor about her. I got the impression that this is a very serious matter. Guys Level with me. Is this a really bad situation? What could be causing this? What can I expect his prognosis to be? Any info you could give me would be appreciated. Thanks. |
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oh..Mark..I don't know about this.....but all my prayers are with you and Brick.  gentle kisses  to Brick from Heart..... |
| At first I thought with the no concentration of the urine it's DI. But I think the urine would be clear like Matties. I have no experience with the blood tests except I know the T4 is thyroid. Just want to let you know we are thinking of you and Brick, sending prayers your way. Will be watching for updates tomorrow. Lisa Frankie and Mattie |
| A friend of mine used to tell me, "don't buy trouble before it goes on sale." So take a deep breath, and (try to) stop your mind from jumping 15 steps ahead. Most of the alphabet soup for the "Total Body" stands for Complete Blood Count (CBC), Chemical Screening (CHEM), and Thyroid Levels (T4). (I'm not familiar with SA120, sorry.) These tests will give the vet a whole slew of indicators for a variety of organs throughout Brick's body, which will either identify the problem (we hope), or else determine what to focus in on. Until they come back, there is very little to do other than what you're already doing - love him, feed him carefully, and take note of any additional changes. What you don't want to do is treat for the wrong condition. For example, you don't want to treat the kidneys, and find out that it is a liver problem and you've inadvertently done more harm than good. Which gets back to waiting (soooo hard to do) for the test results, so you know what you're dealing with. And until you know what you're dealing with, a prognosis is impossible. Sending good thoughts to you and Brick! |
| It sounds like Brick's body is definitely fighting something. Your vet is being very thorough with the blood tests, so you should have some answers tomorrow. When Oscar has been ill, especially with digestive issues, they take blood from his jugular as well, as dehydration can cause the smaller veins in the legs to collapse. This might something as simple as Brick's electrolyte levels being low from his recent illness, so as hard as it is, try not to freak out too much. As you know, Oscar is sick ALOT, and I often have to talk myself off the ledge, so I know what you are going through. Laurie and Oscar |
| Mark - from what I understand, those numbers CAN occur in healthy dogs for a variety of reasons, but any worthwhile vet who sees that is going to order up follow-up tests to double-check. Oh, and telling you not to worry - waste of bandwith, I know. There are some nasty possibilties, some moderately nasty possibilities best caught and treated, and some benign possibilties. Our job is put our mental energy into sending good thoughts your and Brick's way.  I wouldn't panic just yet. And I'm a freakaziod in this regard. Kristine |
| I hope it's nothing serious and that everything is sorted out soon Those urine results make me think diabetes possibly? |
| Crossing my fingers, thinking positive thoughts, eager for good news. |
| If Brick was being a jerk, I'd have a mountain of personal experience from which to hurl advice at you from. Since Brick is a sweetie who isn't feeling very well, I'm just going to let you know that you are both in our thoughts, and we'll be waiting to hear how his blood work turns out!!! |
| I hope it is nothing serious.Sending positive thoughts to Brick and you. Robin |
| Good advice but not easy to follow, don't panic until you find out what's wrong. Keep the positive thoughts going! Sending lots of healing thoughts and prayers to Brick and you! Cindy |
| Here's info I found on the Total Body SA120 test. ------------------------------ Chemistry Tests (Superchem) These panels survey many of the organ systems of the body to make sure they are working properly. Liver (AST, ALT, Alk Phos, Total Bilirubin, GGT, Cholesterol, Proteins) This group of tests helps evaluate various functions and health of the liver. Decreased liver function, inflammation, infection, or neoplasia of the liver and gall bladder may be detected by one or all of these tests. Kidney (BUN, Creatinine, Phosphorus, Amylase, Albumin) These tests monitor the function and health of the kidneys. They are most helpful and sensitive for detecting kidney disease when combined with a urinalysis. Pancreas (Glucose, Amylase, Lipase, Triglyceride) These tests are abnormal when there is something wrong with the pancreas or carbohydrate metabolism (examples are diabetes mellitus and pancreatitis). Muscle and Bone Calcium and Phosphorus are helpful in determining the health of bone metabolism. CPK and AST are abnormal with muscle damage, trauma or inflammation (mytosis). Electrolytes (Sodium, Potassium, Chloride, Calcium, Phosphorous) These tests are important in monitoring the electrical, water balance and cellular health of the body. Deficiencies or excesses of these electrolytes are harmful to an animal’s physical and mental well-being. ---------------------------- This is info I got on another dog forum if you already haven't found it yourself. I believe the vet ordered the test to check for multiple organ functions. I'm sending all my positive energy your way!! |
| I agree, wait. If he's been fighting a tapeworm or some other internal parasite, numbers can be off. We assume he has not gotten into some poison.....that is usually an acute illness. Diabetes is one thought, Cushings is another, kidney problems are often treated with a lower protein diet thus avoiding strain on the kidneys.....but all this is premature. We need the numbers. The vet is right on for taking all these tests. Hoping for the best. |
 Mark, I'm Positively sending you and Brick the vibe for big hugs and a better day. So sorry to hear this latest bit of news. Fortunately, your Vet seems to be on top of getting to the focus of the problem. So smart of you to take the urine sample for analysis. Everyone has given you great advice, and we'll all be waiting to hear from you today. Positive energy to you, my friend. Big Hugs to Brick from Charm |
| Positive thoughts going Bricks way! |
SheepieBoss wrote: I agree, wait. If he's been fighting a tapeworm or some other internal parasite, numbers can be off. We assume he has not gotten into some poison.....that is usually an acute illness. Susan, I had his stool tested on Wednesday and they didn't find anything. I don't think he's gotten into any poison. I sprayed the back yard about a month ago I haven't let him go back there since I sprayed (I actually let him back there on Wednesday night, but it's been a month since I sprayed and we've had a few good, heavy rains). When walking him, we walk in the road so I can keep him away from people's yards, as I don't know what people do to or put on their yards. I don't remember him picking anything up on our walks or licking the road or anything like that. And then I take him to a big public grassy area that's owned by the village to do his business. I'm 99% sure the village doesn't spray any of their properties. They can barely keep the roads clear in the winter. I can't imagine them spraying their property. He's eaten some grass there. I stop him when I see him. Otherwise, I take him on a lead in my front yard, which I didn't spray. He's been confined to the kitchen & dining room since 7/9 because of the fleas. He's allowed into the LR when someone is home. Has not been into the basement at all unsupervised since 7/9. I have not sprayed anything on him. He continues to get his Frontline Plus (7/9, 8/7), which he has always tolerated. I gave him a Comfortis on 7/12. I've been vacuuming (I have been putting part of a cut up flea collar in the vacuum bag) once a week, so there should be nothing on the floor. He doesn't have access to where we keep the household cleaners under the sink. So unless someone has dumped a toxin in the grassy area where I take him or on my front yard, I can't see where he would have gotten into anything toxic. But he continues to have a great appetite. He was barking at me this morning by his bowl, waiting for me to feed him. And he scarfed his breakfast right down. And he bounces around and seems to be in very good spirits. Walking very briskly on his walks. |
| He pooped this morning. First time since Wednesday morning. The first one was close to normal size & consistency. The second one was much smaller (size & shape of pencil) and a bit softer. My mother thinks that I should back off on the rice because it's binding and maybe he needs to eat something that will help him go. IDK. |
| Hopefully you will get some results this morning. I know it would be easier for me to know than for my brain to be on overdrive "imaging" what it could be. |
| With questionable kidney function, stay with rice, reduce the meat and sub some kibble instead. Low protein. Now if he was Jack I could serve him zucchini, carrots, etc and he'd be cool with that. Actually I could serve brown paper bags and he'd probably eat them as well. Hope the vet finds something, it is frustrating for them and you when results are inconclusive. I remember when Splash became incontinent, her urine SG dropped not quite to 1.00, but far below what they wanted. No cause found. It eventually rose a bit but never to the proper level. Another head scratcher for the vets. She lived on several years, constantly wetting her diaper but happy pup. |
Just catching up here.  I agree w/your vet to do a broad screen. All the body systems for stuff like this are related and interconnected. It would be wrong to assume one source (organ) as a primary site for anything without checking everything. We had to do a similar process last year when Simon was so sick. He had cardiac, liver and kidney involvement - the puzzle was finding out what came 1st. Good news that he is acting his normal self.  |
| Paws, fingers and legs crossed for you and Brick. Good thoughts and prayers have gone out. I know what panic mode is about. I go there when it concerns my dogs. I keep hugging and kissing them and hold them tight. |
| Sorry I of no help here. But just wanted you to know that we are thinking you and brick. Hope it is all ok. |
| Well, after not hearing anything this morning, I finally decided to call the vet. The tech asked the vet if the results were in and the vet said that Brick's results "look pretty good" (thanks for getting back to me doc. I've only been a nervous wreck all morning). The vet wants another urine sample this afternoon and wants me to keep better track of his hydration amounts. I'll be getting a copy of the blood work they did today AND all the other work-ups they've done thru his entire life. I want to compare to accepted values AND compare all of HIS results. He might be skewed a little left or right of nominal, but that might be normal for him. If someone tells me where I could host PDF files, I'd post them here that all you guys could see them. So that makes me feel a little better. I still want to know why his urine SG was only 1.000 and why there was coloration to the urine. I'll post more info this afternoon when I get back from the vet. Hopefully around 6 PM EST and hopefully I'll have a place to host his blood results. Thank you all for the prayers and good vibes you've been sending. It means a lot to me. |
| Mark that is great news! I don't quite understand all the blood work results but when you say "coloration" in the urine, do you mean blood? Did they rule out a UTI? I had my share of experiences with UTIs and I know they can cause frequent and excessive urination and some blood as well. And it can be cured pretty easily with some meds... Sounds like your Vet is thorough. Keep us posted. |
| Glad to see things seem to be better, hope you get this all straightened out soon and Brick is back to his normal routine. Poor guy. |
Ashley wrote: Mark that is great news! I don't quite understand all the blood work results but when you say "coloration" in the urine, do you mean blood? Did they rule out a UTI? I had my share of experiences with UTIs and I know they can cause frequent and excessive urination and some blood as well. And it can be cured pretty easily with some meds... Sounds like your Vet is thorough. Keep us posted. Diane, What I mean by "coloration" is that his pee looks normal (yellow coloration). But with a urine SG of 1.000 (which is what water is) one would expect the urine to be completely clear. According to my vet, if the SG is 1.000 and there's coloration there, it's not there for the reasons that it should be. That made her think the coloration was from billyrubin or red blood cells. That's why she ordered the large panel. But those came back normal. So why the SG of 1.000 AND the coloration? I'm not sure if they use a dipstick to measure SG, but if they do, I'm starting to question if the dipstick they used was bad. She didn't talk about testing methodology and I didn't ask, but I will when I go back today. As a scientist/doctor/engineer, if you get results that are unexpected, you should retest with known good equipment. And then repeat the test at least 3 times. I wonder if they checked with one dipstick and relied on that. If so, that was a no-no. They should recheck with another dipstick from at least another batch (lot) or, preferably, another manufacturer. And maybe his urine needs a more in-depth analysis (where they centrifuge it to look for solids). I also wonder if the cup I captured it in affected the results. It was fast-food style wax coated cup. |
Glad to here that the vet didn't find anything horrible  Sorry that you don't have the answers to Brick's health yet Hopefully you can figure out what/if Brick is sick...or determine if there was a false test reading. |
Well, you certainly sound like you know what you're talking about! I was lost with the urine gravity thing...They sell in most drug stores I think a urine testing kit that contains a sterile cup. Also, when we went to the specialist, they took the urine directly from my dog. Not plesant for her I'm sure - although it took a few seconds and she was out of there. We kept getting results that showed a UTI with bacteria when I gave it in a cup, but no bacteria when they took it directly...  |
| Mark-have been away a bit and just saw this post. Fingers crossed and positive thoughts coming your way from our house. Glad things seem a little better. Give Brick a big hug from us! |
| no expert here, but did you tell your vet about all the flea treatments you were doing? He may of had a chemical overdose of some sort. I know too much treatment will effect the kidney and liver and such. Shampoo and drops combined can be deadly. just a thought. but Im glad things are looking better. |
| So glad it's nothing major! Hugs to you and Brick. CamVal1 wrote: I'll be getting a copy of the blood work they did today AND all the other work-ups they've done thru his entire life. I want to compare to accepted values AND compare all of HIS results. He might be skewed a little left or right of nominal, but that might be normal for him. While it's good to have a copy of his test records, be aware that some animals may be a little (or a lot) out of the "normal range." Plus, you need to keep track of which test panels were taken when Brick was sick, and which were from healthy visits. Bear in mind, too, that "normal" test ranges can change over time as more data is collected, results can vary slightly from lab to lab, or even machine to machine depending on the calibration, they may be affected by human or sampling error, and Brick's values may change as he goes through life as well. If I could suggest (and my grandfather always said, "It's free advice, you don't have to take it"), make a consultation appointment, without Brick, and go over the tests with your vet so you have a clear understanding of what you're looking at. And by all means, DON'T try to diagnose him yourself. That's why your vet spent 8 years in college! Good luck! |
| My very first thought when I read all of this was the flea wars. Thinking about what you've said in this thread, vacuuming with cut-up flea collars in the bag will eject all of the flea poison into the air and it will settle on the carpets. I don't know if that's true if there is real HEPA filtration on the vacuum, and of course if it is central vac the air is being exhausted elsewhere. I also don't THINK that it should be the issue that caused this. I am hoping the problem is just one of a change in lifestyle causing Brick to be a little upset. Maybe you've got to relax a little around your dog? Rice can be binding, but it can be rinsed a bit to remove some of the starches... you can make it with extra water and pour off that "rice water" which will take a lot or most of the binding stuff away. I'm glad the panels are looking pretty good, and I agree that if the urine was yellow, the vet should have redone the gravity test. |
Ryleigh wrote: no expert here, but did you tell your vet about all the flea treatments you were doing? He may of had a chemical overdose of some sort. I know too much treatment will effect the kidney and liver and such. Shampoo and drops combined can be deadly. just a thought. but Im glad things are looking better. I told her how I sprayed the backyard but hadn't let him back there at all. I did not tell her about the flea baths that he's had on 5/30, 7/13, and 8/6. I didn't think that flea shampoo couldn't be used in conjuction with Frontline. I couldn't find any documentation that says you shouldn't do that. |
Ron wrote: My very first thought when I read all of this was the flea wars. Thinking about what you've said in this thread, vacuuming with cut-up flea collars in the bag will eject all of the flea poison into the air and it will settle on the carpets. I don't know if that's true if there is real HEPA filtration on the vacuum, and of course if it is central vac the air is being exhausted elsewhere. I also don't THINK that it should be the issue that caused this. I am hoping the problem is just one of a change in lifestyle causing Brick to be a little upset. Maybe you've got to relax a little around your dog? Rice can be binding, but it can be rinsed a bit to remove some of the starches... you can make it with extra water and pour off that "rice water" which will take a lot or most of the binding stuff away. I'm glad the panels are looking pretty good, and I agree that if the urine was yellow, the vet should have redone the gravity test. I cut up about 1/4 of a collar and put those bits into the bag, vacuum, and then throw the bag out. The vacuum says it's a HEPA vacuum and I've been using the better 3M Filtrete bags. I make rice like I make macaroni. Big pot of boiling water, throw the rice in, cook till done, drain rice. I also rinse it to remove excess starches. |
| I brought another sample to the vet today. It tested just a smidge higher than yesterday's sample. She decided to send it to a lab for more analysis. I said that even if there was billyrubin or red blood cells in his urine, that should change the SG. It shouldn't be 1.000. I suggested a testing error and she said it's a possibility and we'll see what the other lab says. |
| Here's links to his blood work over the years: 2/21/05 https://rapidshare.com/files/1733186788 ... -21-05.pdf 1/10/07 https://rapidshare.com/files/2602656843 ... -10-07.pdf 4/17/07 https://rapidshare.com/files/6773360/Bl ... -17-07.pdf 3/20/11 https://rapidshare.com/files/3568568116 ... -20-11.pdf 8/12/11 https://rapidshare.com/files/3502547461 ... -12-11.pdf |
| Sending positive thoughts tonight to you and Brick. Hoping you find out something with the lab analysis, fingers crossed for mechanical error on the original machine. |
| Oh man, huge wishes for it being a mistake in the lab testing. |
| I don't think I mentioned it, but the vet is extremely relieved to see the blood results we saw today. She was really worried there was something going on with Brick's kidneys but the blood work proved otherwise. |
CamVal1 wrote: I don't think I mentioned it, but the vet is extremely relieved to see the blood results we saw today. She was really worried there was something going on with Brick's kidneys but the blood work proved otherwise. Was checking in before going to bed. . . glad to hear that good news! |
| Woohoo for the good news thus far!!! Robin |
  hopefully, Brick continues to improve!!! |
| I don't think the blood result links are working. So I'll try this: 2/21/05 http://photos.oes.org/albums/userpics/1 ... -21-05.pdf 1/10/07 http://photos.oes.org/albums/userpics/1 ... -10-07.pdf 4/17/07 http://photos.oes.org/albums/userpics/1 ... -17-07.pdf 3/20/11 http://photos.oes.org/albums/userpics/1 ... -20-11.pdf 8/12/11 http://photos.oes.org/albums/userpics/1 ... -12-11.pdf This should work.  |
| And to allay anyone's concerns that the flea & tick shampoo that the groomers have been using may have patially contributed to this, take a look at this: http://www.purepet.com/mm5/merchant.mvc ... _Code=DACS http://www.petedge.com/product/Grooming ... /43355.uts And the MSDS: http://www.petedge.com/assets/product_f ... PA0803.pdf This product is all organic with no chemicals or insecticides and has been approved to be used in conjunction with all vet prescribed anti-flea products. |
| No results from the lab regarding his urinalysis. My vet closes in about 20 minutes, so we won't know anything until Monday morning. Stay tuned. |
just been catching up on this thread, sounds more positive now, but gosh so scarey. But, being positive and he is eating so fingers crossed that there is more good news after the weekend...hugs to you all.. xxx  |
| Hi Mark, can't offer any advice, but hope everything turns out okay for Brick. |
| What a roller coaster! Thinking of you and Brick and hoping you get answers soon! |
| I hope Brick and you can enjoy a nice Sunday |
got sheep wrote: I hope Brick and you can enjoy a nice Sunday We were enjoying a relaxing Sunday until some jackass lit off a couple pineapples GRRRRR!! |
| I was away this weekend and am just catching up on this. I am keeping everything crossed (even those bits that hurt when you cross them) that he gets back to his usual adorable self soon. Give him a big hug please! |
| Catching up on this thread too. It's looking optimistic so far, I hope that's confirmed. Brick you stay healthy!!! |
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