Am I being petty--re possible pup?
The pup we can get is female with black patches over each eye. We've met her, her littermates and all the adults that live there and it was a wonderful hour or so of sheepieness. The next few months are perfect puppy raising weather months-- a female doesn't mark like one of our males does-- and none of our present dogs were what we were looking for as they just occurred and joined our household. So be brutally honest---- am I being too petty? |
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| Yeah you are. Buying for looks would be like buy a good looking car but possibly having a real lemon underneath. I guarantee you'll be like Dave in discovering sheepdogs are like potato chips, it's hard to stop with just one. (a subtle warning) I too wanted a dandelion head (like a dandelion seed head, white and fluffy). It wasn't until Jack (#6) came along and by then, I found out...........it didn't matter! I wanted what was under the hood, not the outside. In mean time realize that blackness fades into grey and is less dramatic than now. Right now you might be tempted to give her a name such as Badit, but hold off. When the puppy coat is gone and the hair is longer, that black mask will disappear. I suspect more sheepdogs will be in your future (remember potato chips), at some time a white head will come along. BTW, puppy mills and BYBs go out of their way to produce white heads because of the "designer" look, and many of them are real lemons. |
| Petty? Yes, but you'll have to weigh the importance of those things to you, not what someone else thinks. When we got Nelson we really wanted a female because our Maggie was a better behaved dog than our previous dog Winston. Turned out that Nelson was so much better than either of them. Such an easy-going guy and fit in perfectly with Maggie during the time she had left with us. I still have to admit that I personally have a thing about patches of white on an OES jacket and would wait for another pup if it was substantial. That's just me and it is ridiculously petty. I'm not actively looking for a pup so that's not a problem, I can wait until doomsday. Actually it's a good incentive for me NOT to get a puppy.  We've had white-headed dogs and dogs with blue eyes, brown eyes, walleyes and splotches, flashes and splashes and they once you have them, you see right past all of those things. Find a good breeder, get a good puppy and train him/her properly and you'll never notice the cosmetic things. Either sex has good and bad points so don't let a good puppy slip away if you really want it. And if you don't, I know someone else here that is actively looking... |
| I do not think you are being petty at all!!! You should get the dog of your dreams. Lots of time and money are spent on a puppy, and you will have your dog for many many years. Maybe you should look at other breeders on the list and choose a couple more that you like. Then you could be on multiple lists and get the puppy you want sooner. You will no doubt love any puppy you decide on. I agree that owning a sheepdog makes you want another, I already want another and Millie is only 11months old, but in my case that is not always logical or possible. One last bit of advice.....When I went to pick out a puppy from Millie's breeder I was thinking "I want a boy and his name will be R*****". Well, the breeder had one boy and three girls left and all were beautiful. The male was great, but something between me and Millie just clicked and I knew she was mine. I think when you find "the puppy" you just know. |
funny thing is that I'm normally not this way. I drive a 5 year old Ford Focus for cripe sake.  |
| you need to go see the pup!! then you will know if she is right for you.. p.s i have 2 boys and they have never marked anything |
| When I saw the litter that Lily came from, I totally thought I wanted this BIG girl with a white head and I ended up getting a small masked girl. Man oh man was Lily ment for me. We clicked right away and when I brought her home she acted like she had always been here. Don't get me wrong, I still eventually want a sheepie with an all white head but I wouldn't trade my tiny masked girl for the world. I only planned on having one sheepie but after having Lily, only more sheepies are on the list.  |
| Going to arrange for another visit. This time to really pay attention. First visit was probably really more of a get to know the breeder type of thing. Its either puppy or pergola? |
| If it helps reconcile you to this particular pup, from a practical standpoint, the white patches are much harder to keep mat free than the dark ones, at least in my experience. My personal preference/attraction is for black patches on the face and ears. There is no reason--it's just what I like. I also have a strong preference for brown eyes. But the last time I got a pup, the only ones available had blue eyes or one blue/one brown. I got a blue eyed pup and a brown/blue eyed pup, both with much more white on their heads than I prefer, by looks only. Guess what? I love them just as much as if I had special ordered them by looks. My dad used to have the most beautiful English setter--truly a gorgeous dog, so beautiful that when he would be out with him, hunting (the dog's purpose, and to a certain extent, also my father's), people would always offer him what was then an outrageous sum of money for Freckles, just based on looks. In fact, I think this was one time when my father got a dog based on looks over other factors. But the dog just didn't suit my father, temperament wise. He was a very nice dog, decent hunter, but to my father, very weird: Freckles used to dig up worms and toss them into the air, playing. And it was impossible to keep his kennel in any sort of semi-clean state. Ditto food/water dishes. (outside dog). My dad sold him, eventually, based solely on the fact that he and the dog just didn't fit. I think that it is important to match a puppy's temperament to your own. Some individuals (canine/human) are more laid back; some are more dominant; some are more energetic, etc. Here, the breeder will be of help as s/he will know the pups the best. I also think you will love which ever dog you get. |
| I was just as petty. When my breeder first sent me photos almost 4 years ago, I picked Tonks out immediately. She was adorable. But the next day, when I'd thought about it over night, I had changed my mind. Like you I'd waited a long time, and I wanted the perfect looking sheepdog. I wanted a big white head and cowl, and Tonks had black patches over both eyes and ears. I told the breeder I didn't want Tonks, and asked if i could come and see the litter in person to pick my pup. She was only a 30 minute drive from my house, so she invited us over. I sat on the floor with a pile of squiggly 4 week old puppies that were far more interested in each other than they were in me. Eventually one pup freed herself from the others, wandered over and crawled into my lap. And it was Tonks, the original puppy I'd picked from the photos, the puppy that looked nothing like what I wanted for my first OES in 30 years. Then her 1/2 sister Luna crawled into my lap as well, which was unexpected. We went in for one puppy, not two. Of course in Luna I got my mostly white head; she has a grey patch around one eye, and a spot on one ear; but its faded down so silvery that she now really looks like she has a mostly white head. But really? I don't notice anymore. I love them so damned much, they could be mutts and I'd still be over the moon about them. In fact, Luna's coat was so crazy for the first year, we were pretty sure that the breeder's Golden Retriever was her real dad. But even that has calmed down to the point where our groomer says that she has the more appropriate OES coat of the two of them! |
jimandthom wrote: funny thing is that I'm normally not this way. I drive a 5 year old Ford Focus for cripe sake. Keep driving the Focus and you can get the puppy you want AND the pergola! Cars and pergolas aren't going to love you like a puppy! |
I am guilty of being petty as well  All I wanted was a white head. And by the way, are you from the East coast? Seems the east coast, particularly Northerners are obsessed with the white head thing!I got my white head and when getting the second wanted the same thing and got it...But now, I am almost sorry I didn't get one with a black eye or ear patch...so dam cute and characteristic...not that I don't LOVE my white head babies...I think though in retrospect, I would have loved any sheepie...they are all so cute! I have a male and a female...don't have a particvluar preference...the female is smaller than the male and the spaying was more of a major surgery than the neutering...Both have the same loving, crazy, goof ball attitude... Keep us posted! we love sheepie pups here at the forum, no matter what markings they have! Sheepies are sheepies, same personality no matter what markings... |
| I voting for petty too Lots to consider rather then markings or sex of the dog. Double patch  White headed  Ear patch  Now you gotta admit all markings are darn cute on OES, so dont make your priorities markings or wether boy or girl, my preferences I adore the head, eye and ear patches, but I would not keep a pup based on markings alone, least of your worries when getting an oes pup. |
| Ditto what Lisa said.... I am a sucker for pups with tons of black, a tuxedo puppy makes me melt  But I look past that when choosing a pup to keep and go for structure and balance and personality. The black turns grey so it's not as striking as an adult. |
Luna and Tonks as puppies: At about 2 years old, you can hardly see Luna's one dark eye patch:  At 3 years old, Tonks' darks are still very visible, while Luna's aren't. Honestly, it makes Tonks easy to identify to strangers. When they ask who is who, I just tell them Tonks has the dark ears and they instantly can tell the girls apart!  |
| I am really happy that we didn't choose Mady at all. We talked to our breeder quite a bit, she got to know us, figure out our personalities and lifestyle, then she picked out Mady for us. I would do it the same way next time, too. She chose perfectly! And now that I have been around so many more adult sheepies, it is true that the markings that are so distinctive on puppies really do rather disappear. What we have now is just this big pair of beautiful eyes to look into! |
| Good advice Mady. One of the best things you and the breeder can do is match the right puppy with your lifestyle,if the pup is going to be just a companion.Showing and performance would be a different ballgame. With Bella,she was the pick of the litter because her co-owner wanted it this way and luckily she is the female I had my eye on,she really is a beautiful,smart, sweet natured girl. With Forrest I was actually looking for a female but she was spoken for, so I decided to buy Forrest anyway.I will tell you, he has been the best dog I could of ever dreamed of.He is a gentle, silly ole bear,sweet,loving,handsome and very smart. Whatever you decide you and your puppy will bond and share many memorable experiences together. Robin |
I agree that puppy markings should not be a deal breaker. Puppy markings look drastically different between an 8 week old puppy and an adult coat. They tend to look much more prominent and striking on the puppy. Though I admit, if I were getting another puppy, I might hold out for the sex I want (but right now, I don't know which sex I'd choose!  ) and I might insist on brown eyes Oh, and I do think I'd ask Amber to choose one for me. |
Hm - I'd like to vote for petty, because health and temperament and so on are so much more important, but I have some personal real deal breakers, namely no splashes (white in grays) or blue eyes. I can appreciate an otherwise nice dog in the ring who has either or both of these characteristics, but I don't want to live with it or produce it. Of course, now I've cursed myself.  Color of head is trivial to me, even though I am a sucker for a masked bitch And I'm very set in my opinions when it comes to gender. That said, every dog I have was picked for reasons other than the color or lack thereof on its head. So I vote for go meet her and see if she melts your heart.Kristine |
| I actually vote for petty also-- thats what makes my whole quandary so ridiculous. Suppose I was am comparing to Laker our first and only from 35 years ago who was male, big ole white head with a splash of black on one ear. Gotta stop doing that. If I really wanted perfection, I would have said no to the 2 deaf white Boxers |
jimandthom wrote: If I really wanted perfection, I would have said no to the 2 deaf white Boxers Good one! Kristine  |
| Markings, eh, no way. That's nothing to get hung up on. Sex, on the other hand, is a fair enough thing to want to stick to, especially depending on the expectations of the dog. With females, you have heats and possibly puppies to deal with depending on your agreement with the breeder. Boys usually just go on "dates" and you get them back pretty easily. It all depends on what you're up for. |
| We bought our first because he was the one left over. He was wonderful. Our next two were chosen by the breeder. We got two that worked well together, and were a match for us. One had some medical issues (I wish he hadn't of course) but I think she knew we were the type to work through them. He had a great life. (An offer to help with those that were congenital was suggested, and hinted at, but never actually happened.) Either way, they were both wonderful and I wouldn't have traded them for anything. Then came Hudson, and the breeder again picked him, but I use the term breeder loosely. I've been to the CKC over him more times than I can count, and they'll chase him for a year, he'll make dozens of excuses, get caught in lies, and eventually send an incorrect document, and then they happily clean the slate. I know, I called anonymously to see if he's on their recommended list, and despite all I've been through HIS record is clean. When I called back (as myself) to ask about that they explained that they work FOR the breeder, and basically, if he pays his dues he's good in their eyes. None of that has tainted our love for Hudson. He's a brat with attitude to burn, and I wouldn't trade him for anything. And then came our Rudy. He's a rescue. He flew in from Florida, and we never met him before he got here. He's crazy, messed up, and FULL of issues. And I love him more than I can describe. He's also grateful, loving, and really silly. He's wonderful. Hudson has a "mask" with one dark and one light ear and two brown eyes....his fur has remained really dark for a sheepie and his coat is insanely thick, and he's three and a half now. He's a pipsqueak, built like a bulldog, and solid like a tank. Rudy has a white head, dark brown eyes, and a splash down his body. His fur is has faded a lot, and it's really thin and easy to care for. He is tall and shaped like an afghan. ThePas had an all white head, a "river" splash running all down his back, and one ice blue eye. He had an underbite and knee problems and was cute as a bug. Portage had beautiful medium brown eyes, and some dark on his face. He was physically perfect, and we had interest from others in showing him. He was a majestic creature. Our first, BRANDON, had chocolate brown eyes, patches on his face, and a magnificent tail. He was a mix, but it was hard to see anything but sheepie in him. He was long, lanky, and graceful and loved to jump over things. It's really all about personality. I think certain puppies are especially cute, but I would not let marking decide anything. It's all about heart and soul! I've had five very different sheepies and I couldn't pick one that I thought was the cutest, or had the "best" markings or look. Good luck in your search. |
Honestly, I don't think it's petty to prefer a certain marking over the other.  I think it's a perfectly normal human response. Especially, if I'm only going by photos. Without spending any time with the puppies, of course I'm going to prefer one look over the other. Every time I look at a picture of litters I always try to pick out my favorite one, and I think it's mostly based on the markings. Also, when you are actually deciding on a puppy, wouldn't it be ideal if the dog with the perfect personality also has those markings you love so much? That being said, we are also loving people and we see beyond the superficial features. Afterall, what makes any relationship great is not how they look but how well they fit your personality. Once you find a trait that you adore, the looks don't matter any more. For instance, who would have ever thought I would fall in love with a balding guy? (Ok Nick's not really balding but he has thin hair) Also, we know well that looks change. Hot guys turn into old grandpas, all those nice muscles turn into....... oh wait, we were talking about dogs..... So back to my point, a well groomed dog with any marking is prettier than a matted dirty dog with the best markings. So while I don't think wanting a puppy with your preferred marking is petty, but there are many more important factors you need to consider and you should be smart enough to set the right priorities. I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting for another litter to get the puppy with marking, gender, and personality you wanted. |
| Thanks to the photos I gotten over the eye patch insanity and have sent an email to arranage another private time and of course more questions. Why I am being so fussy about this one I got no clue.  Every dog we have had since early 1980s has been a sponteous, no choice except yes or no, bring 'em in and make them part of the group and part of the house dog so why should this be any differant. |
 we decided to wait for another day on getting our sheepdog. Original plan had been to wait until springish 2012 and in retrospect that was the correct timeframe.Fun part though was getting reaquainted with them again and it really has settled in that one is in our future. So in the mean time keep posting your pictures and stories so we can get our sheepie fix. Thanks |
jimandthom wrote: :( we decided to wait for another day on getting our sheepdog. Original plan had been to wait until springish 2012 and in retrospect that was the correct timeframe.Fun part though was getting reaquainted with them again and it really has settled in that one is in our future. So in the mean time keep posting your pictures and stories so we can get our sheepie fix. Thanks I know it must be hard to wait(esp after all the buzz about the puppy), but timing is the key as well. That is how Charm fell into our laps last winter. We picked her from a picture of four, and when I went to visit the babies, she came right over to me. So, in essense, we both chose. You, too, will have a story to tell when everything falls into place and feels just right. Good luck!!! |
jimandthom wrote: :( we decided to wait for another day on getting our sheepdog. Original plan had been to wait until springish 2012 and in retrospect that was the correct timeframe.Fun part though was getting reaquainted with them again and it really has settled in that one is in our future. So in the mean time keep posting your pictures and stories so we can get our sheepie fix. Thanks Jim, Remind me where you guys live, roughly, please? I just went over a very nice, whiteheaded, as it happens, male last night as part of a litter evaluation who ideally should be in a home where he could be shown. For some reason it sticks in my mind that this was something you guys might consider, with help - the help part making it geographically critical - the puppy's breeder is in Michigan, co-breeder is in Wisconsin, for that matter, and would be equally inclined to help. There's a pet home waiting for him, it's not that. But all of us who went over him think it would be a waste - there are so few nice males being kept intact and shown these days and it's really hurting the breed. Not to possibly throw a spanner in your plans. If 2012 is better for you, then that's what you need to do. Just struck me as I was catching up on the thread, so thought I would just mention it. Kristine |
| Kristine--we live in southeastern MI just over the Ohio line from Toledo. I think the thing that changed our minds on adding any dog right know, is that shortly after meeting the pups, who were wonderful, we put our oldest dog Wolfie down. He was a ripe old 14 yrs and 3 months that we knew of. Our group of dogs has always been pretty harmonious and tolerant, nothing that a "knock it off" wouldn't correct. The amazing thing is that the harmony is even more noticable now with the remaining four. So I guess we have decided to go with the status quo right now and don;t want to disrupt the even greater harmony going on. |
| I understand. Fortunately you're in an area that is within a radius of any number of good breeders. When you're ready, you'll find the right puppy. I'm so sorry about Wolfie.  Kristine |
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