Co-owning a dog with breeder.
I can think of the following 2 scenarios. (1) The dog lives with you, you show the dog, after winning many titles, with the original breeder’s help you breed the dog, give the original breeder puppies, and you become the sole owner afterwards when she gets spayed? (2) The dog lives with you like your pet (you feed her, play with her, take her to the vet) but has a part-time job and goes to shows with the breeder on the weekends? Then if she wins a lot of titles, she is bred, stays with the breeder until she finishes maternal duties. Then live out her life with you? Which one is right? What other factors play into this kind of arrangement? Is this common practice? This is a very novel concept for me. If this has been discussed before, please guide me to the right thread.  |
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| Joanna - it could be either or none of those 2 scenarios. I co-own Chewie with the one of his cobreeders. I don't owe a puppy, and we can do basically whatever we want. I would need to discuss with both of them if he ever was bred, but I would do that anyway! And I would of course need to clear it with both cobreeders if I ever were to want to neuter - but he behaves wonderfully, so no need to do that  (unless something medical were to come up).For us it is mutually benefiting. Whenever we show or compete, having the breeders name is a bonus, as it means she thought enough of him to want her name linked with whatever we do. It's like a bit of extra clout  It also reflects back - because we go out and do stuff and win, it is great word of mouth for the breeding program and kennel for what this line can do. We are sort of a walking advertisement. It can go bad though - it is so important to have a good relationship and ability to work together if you co-own. You need to agree and have at least similar goals for the dog you co-own. AND have a very clearly spelled out contract so everyone is clear and square on whatever the agreement will be. |
| lol, yes, if you have a superstar like chewieman out there it's great.  vs. dogdooieman, not so much.  |
| Thank you for the info and chewie's situation. So it's basically what the breeder and the family agree upon when the dog is chosen. Why would one choose this paricular arrangement over owning a puppy from the breeder? Is it because of the uncertainty of how the Puppy may grow up to be? |
Guest wrote: Thank you for the info and chewie's situation. So it's basically what the breeder and the family agree upon when the dog is chosen. Why would one choose this paricular arrangement over owning a puppy from the breeder? Is it because of the uncertainty of how the Puppy may grow up to be? I would consider co-owning a dog with Mady's breeder, Amber, for example, if we lived closer to her. It would be neat for 'my' puppy to have the experience of becoming a Champion, but I know that I don't have the desire or know-how to show a dog, but that Amber does. From the breeder's perspective, it is probably wonderful to have a selection of dogs living happy, full lives with their co-owners, but who the breeder can potentially breed. Imagine a world full of little Chewies!  |
| I co-own Heart with my breeder. She always co-owns her pups so if they are not being taken care of ...or abused...or neglected...she can take the dog back without any problems... I was very suspicious when I first heard of this. I was afraid that 'she' could just come and take my dog for no reason..(I have a tendency to overthink things)...  But, after it was explained to me, I settled down.....  I agree with Dawn that having a good relationship with your breeder is very important whether you co-own or not. No one knows your puppy like your breeder and she/he will be invaluable in the first days, weeks, months...to help you with any questions and or fears you may have. |
| Thanks ladies. It's really still a foreign concept to me. Is this common practice?  Co-own or not, wouldn't most ppl who get their pups from a breeder seek the breeder's advice anyways? And a responsible breeder would also be there for all the questions and advice. I do understand how it could be beneficial when you show the dog to have the breeder's (kennel's) support but doesn't a show dog from a particular breeder usually take on the kennel's name even if it's not co-owned by the breeder? |
joanna21 wrote: Thanks ladies. It's really still a foreign concept to me. Is this common practice? Co-own or not, wouldn't most ppl who get their pups from a breeder seek the breeder's advice anyways? And a responsible breeder would also be there for all the questions and advice. I do understand how it could be beneficial when you show the dog to have the breeder's (kennel's) support but doesn't a show dog from a particular breeder usually take on the kennel's name even if it's not co-owned by the breeder? I think yes they take the Kennel's name, like Mady is officially Blueshire's Mady. However, in shows and trials etc. it usually lists who the handler is, and who the owner is. For Mady's upcoming herding trial, she is listed as Blueshire's Mady, but the owner is just myself (and I guess Kim)  . If Mady was co-owned it would list as Blueshire's Mady, owned by Amber and David. I know that Amber co-owns a number of her dogs. |
joanna21 wrote: Thanks ladies. It's really still a foreign concept to me. Is this common practice? Co-own or not, wouldn't most ppl who get their pups from a breeder seek the breeder's advice anyways? And a responsible breeder would also be there for all the questions and advice. I do understand how it could be beneficial when you show the dog to have the breeder's (kennel's) support but doesn't a show dog from a particular breeder usually take on the kennel's name even if it's not co-owned by the breeder? Including the kennel name is usually in a contract whether you co-own or not. Some breeders already name all their puppies with registered names that you have to agree to when you take the pup. Whether or not you co-own, there's also a good chance you'll sign any number of contracts depending on your plans for the dog like showing or breeding. A contract for a male pup will likely be considerably different than for a female. My breeder does a lot of placing of dogs in show homes where, essentially, the owners wanted a nice pet but the dog is a nice, show quality dog. The breeder would like to show the dog and further the breeding program so the owners just provide the home and set up a schedule with the breeder for grooming and shows. They really don't do anything other than a little transport. In exchange, they get a beautifully groomed and bathed dog regularly and free weekend here and there. Ultimately, co-owning is in place so if anything happens to you, or you can't care for the dog anymore, it's automatically set up so the dog stays in good hands, back with the breeder. The last thing most breeders want is to take dogs back so they aren't looking to come repo your dog (unless you're unfit or violating the contract) but they don't want them in shelters or shipped to someone's backyard because you died or something. They just want the best for the dogs that they produced. It's all part of responsible breeding. They're your kids until they die! Owners are crazy, too. Sometimes they'll sign a contract and then decide they're just going to go out and breed on their own with whatever dog they find and, in this case, the contract/co-own protects the breeder. Their kennel name will be associated with all pups produced (not just on the pups' names but the sire and dam on the pedigree) and they don't want wacky owners getting ideas and muddying their good name and hard work they've put into a responsible breeding program. The breeders definitely need to protect themselves, too. Sometimes people seem very normal and then get crazy. You have to plan for that! |
^^^ Wow... I see.  Thanks for the thorough explanations!!!! |
| I think you explained that perfectly Jill. |
Blueshire wrote: I think you explained that perfectly Jill. Thanks. I aim to please. In all seriousness, it was a concern of mine at first, too. I didn't care for the idea of someone else owning my dog, either, but once you get comfortable with the breeder and the situation (and you realize it isn't their goal to just come in and take your dog without a really good reason), it kind of fades to normal and it's no big deal. I actually like to threaten Owen with going back to his breeder all the time when he's bad. It's an excellent scare tactic. |
ButtersStotch wrote: Owners are crazy, too. Sometimes they'll sign a contract and then decide they're just going to go out and breed on their own with whatever dog they find and, in this case, the contract/co-own protects the breeder. Their kennel name will be associated with all pups produced (not just on the pups' names but the sire and dam on the pedigree) and they don't want wacky owners getting ideas and muddying their good name and hard work they've put into a responsible breeding program. The breeders definitely need to protect themselves, too. Sometimes people seem very normal and then get crazy. You have to plan for that!  Too funny. Yes, there are lots of different reasons for co-owning. I co-own my eldest with two other people. It just happened. She lived with her two co-owners (married - to each other) to be shown because breeder was in the process of moving from MN to WI and had also kept her sister. They finished her American and then Canadian championships and she was still solely owned by breeder, who then bred her, once. In the mean time, I had started working with her in agility and obedience. As soon as the puppies were registered she signed Belle over to me and the couple who finished her breed championships, though agreement was she would live with me and I would be responsible for her as if she was solely my dog. This has the following implications: 1) their name is on her as owners, so they also got credit when she earned titles and high in trials and so on 2) if I drop dead they can come pick her up without legal hassle (breeder is fine with this) 3) they get to call me up every so often for updates and threaten to come pick her up because obviously she's being abused as a) she's not an only dog, b) I don't feed her till she explodes, or whatever transgression I've committed that month (it's a long standing joke) That's not a particularly common situtation, I suppose, but point being you don't always have to co-own with the breeder (one presumes Kim and David co-own Mady?) I co-own Mad with her breeder, then she and I bred her so we (by virtue of us both being owners) co-bred that litter, and we co-own Macy together (by choice) Oddly enough she couldn't sign off on Sybil fast enough (sign her over to me and only me, I mean)... I think Sybil should be insulted?  I'm actually adding a friend's name to Macy's registration as co-owner so that when I breed her my friend will be listed as co-breeder - long story (and everyone has to be in agreement on these sort of things, you can't just make changes willy-nilly). Tons of different scenarios. The most important thing is you have to feel comfortable with the proposed situation and prospective co-owner(s). I actually do prefer to co-own (at least as long as I can pick co-owners) for the dropping dead reasons. I don't want there to be any doubt in anyone's mind where my dogs are going worst case. Sybil and my rescue dog are the only dogs I "own" outright. I have an agreement with the above friend that Sybil would go to her should something happen to me, and rescue dog would per her contract need to go back to WI rescue, whence she came. Kristine |
| Hmm, I never thought of co-owning as a way to protect your dog in case of death. And, I suppose I do co-own Mady with David, even if she is mostly mine at heart! I so appreciate the questions that people ask on this forum, as well as the answers. I learn so much! |
| ^^^^ yes indeed I have learned alot through wise sheepie lovers on this forum... I just couldn't help laugh everytime Kristine mentions of herself "dropping dead." We do see dogs coming to rescue because the owner died and dog had nowhere to go... This concept provides a new meaning to the term co-owning. I never thought of it like that before. |
| Oh, I forgot to mention Todd (hubby) is also listed as owner as well. |
got sheep wrote: Oh, I forgot to mention Todd (hubby) is also listed as owner as well. Poor Todd....  Co-breeder you remember; long-suffering husband, not so much Kristine |
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