Momo and the cats... *rant*
Momo's favorite way to "play" with him though... is a bit scarey. She thinks it's quite fun to hump him, knock him over onto his back. He of course has no idea what she is doing to him so he is ok with it (I'm not - but as long as she isn't mean or hurting him I'm fine). Well... she is MEAN! *migrain* She sits over him - and STOMPS on him - ranging from rearing up all the way and smashing him with her weight to a hard pat with her foot... on his head. What's worse - when I try to move her out of the way she goes NUTS and just jumps all over him. When we are coming into the house after walking - I allow her to say hello to the kitties - she starts out ok - lots of praise... then it goes down hill. She is litterally hanging herself on the lead just to pounce on him. Just the stomping is ODD but she also bites Kiley when he is rolled over.  I can imagine the playing and the rough housing... but this is NOT COOL. The cats are not scratching her - they are being quite nice and patient with her sniffing and proding... but biting them while they are being very submissive is crossing the line... BIG TIME!
It's reeeaaally hard for me to NOT get angry at her right now. I know she wants to be the queen of all that is under the sun - but this is really... really p***ing me off. I just brought her in a second ago and she was doing really good... I'm trying to give her room to meet them and not try to interupt their playing too much... but then she started pounding on Kiley... AGAIN... and biting him while he was rolled over AGAIN... I had to take her back into my room at that point - she was going absolutely insane... and when we were passing Halifax she BIT his tail. I put her in her crate without a treat - so she can calm down - and to calm down myself. I can live with everything else she does... but not this. I have got to fix this... but I have no idea how... and no one else seems to know either. I litterally saw red and that wasn't the greatest feeling in the world. I do not get mad at my pets for breaking, chewing or destroying my things. I do not get mad if they have an accident in the house or rub their butt on the rug... I don't get upset for having to wake up early to feed them - or having to bathe them after they have rolled in something (even the cats did that once). But apparently I get very angry when one of my pets is being extremely cruel to another. If Momo were just playing I could deal with it... but this biting my cats while they are rolled over... not just crossed the line... but stomped on the line, moved back and forth over the line... and tore the darn line to shreds! I would love to believe she would just leave them alone and they would run off... she is merciless... she won't allow them to get up and she chases them everwhere since she is still small. We also do not have very tall furniture for them to jump up on for them to get away from her. I've been very quiet about it because I believed that I could change this by calming her down and letting her play with them... but everytime one problem is solved she makes a new one. I've been keeping her seperated from them sometimes out of sheer frustraition. I know she is a puppy - and I know she wants to play... chasing after them is one thing... I can deal with that for now... I'm just trying to get over the biting and stomping before she gets bigger. I need to go lie down for a bit... *frustraited* |
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| She's just being a puppy, I'm sure she isn't trying to be mean. The kitties definately need to be able to escape someplace though. Have you thought about making perch for them (I've seen some pretty neat ones)? The more they are in the same room together the sooner they will calm down together but the kitties need an escape route. |
| Yeah- escape routes are all I can think of too. Do they (kitties) put their rears back when she misbehaves, or in anyway seem upset by her behavior? any growling or baring of teeth? Hunching down? Or are the ears forward and bodies relaxed? If they just take it, and don't show any annoyance or pain- you might be over estimating how hard momo is playing. She may a LOOK like she is wailing on them, but perhaps she is just mouthing, and not using any force? I know that quite often the girls whomp on each other, but it is really, really rare for them to actually do something that is really, truly painful. Usually the diva gets upset with Bells little sister complex and decides she's had enough, then she gives her a whomp, and I split them up. Keep your eyes on them, but if the boys remain relaxed and with ears forward, they may be able to handle the roughhousing just fine. BTW- all of those behaviors are things momo would do with fellow puppies- she probably figures, since they're the right size, the kitties must be puppies too!
Karen  [/img] |
| She's just a baby...remember, before coming home to you, this is how she played with her littermates! Let her do it and the cats will let her know when enough is enough! |
| this always works (worked for my brothers and I):
wrestling! winner takes all cats will survive. if they are getting fed up with it they will leave and find quiet place. and I think one swipe from the cat will teach the dog a lesson. I agree with jsmarcus. Momo is not even 4 months old yet, and you have only had her for 3 weeks. I don't even have plants that behave after 3 weeks! Give her plenty of structure, but let her learn some things on her own as well. A less popular solution is replacing the cats with another dog.  But that would just be me. |
They are definitly showing anoyance and pain when being jumped on and bitten - which is why I am so upset. Unfortunatly, they are not the right size for her to play with like she is.  You'll have to forgive me, this is my first good sized dog... that is a puppy no less. We've had other dogs as puppies and while I've seen mounting and nipping, I've never seen a significatly bigger dog bite another smaller dog.
I see now that she is playing - but she needs to know that she can't play with them like that - they are smaller than she is... and unfortunatly they can't whimper or cry like her litter mates.  |
| I almost can't even respond right now - I'm sort of an emotional time bomb at the second. |
| deep breaths!!! Deep breaths... Feel better? Good! Are the kitty boys fully armed? Can they give her a swack with the claws if they've had it? If so have they? Otherwise, if you see the kitties in distress- try a shock tactic with momo- pennies in a can, a whistle, loud hand clapping with a stern "NO", and loud noise that will jolt her out of the behavior and give the kitty time to retreat if they feel the need to. Either that, or interject a training session. If she is playing too hard, get her attention, then redirect with a sit and stay, or a roll over- something that will give kitty time to get out of the situation, and give Momo a clue that there are more appropriate ways to behave. |
| ooh oooh I know!!! Why don't you pm Stormi!!! She's a raggie breeder! I'll bet she'll have some good advice for you on cat dog relationships!
Karen :0 |
| Ok - I'm calm now... wheeww... I had to talk to Brad a little about it and take a break and get some coffee.
We came back home - he held Momo's lead (she has one that we can adjust). I petted both her and Kiley. I had my thumb looped around her collar just in case she decided to jump on him again... and he sniffed her a bit... she sniffed him a bit... and he went away. She would have liked to have followed him to his hiding place but we held her off. Ok - will talk more about it later - need to study a bit. |
| Ok - a bit more time now - calmer than before. I realize that I probably need to put a few more restrictions on her and hold her down while she is around them to calm her down a bit.
They are fully armed, but their claws are dull (I clip them so they won't get stuck to the carpet or tear of things when they jump up on stuff). Tigger is the only one who fights back - but then again he hit puberty before I snipped him and he is a little bit more rough than the other two. The other two have been house cats all their lives - never killed anything bigger than a moth or roach. I've also taught them not to strike out at things with their claws. If I hadn't taught them this they would probably use me as a ladder or scratching post (it's not very comfortable btw). I had to teach them from babies that scratching mama - no matter how quickly she moved - was a bad idea. I don't want them to learn bad behaivors just for the sake of letting them "duke it out" or teaching the dog a lesson. I also don't want a dog with a split nose... which is what she might get if she tried to hump Tigger. I think my biggest mistake was letting her see them off the lead or giving her a lot of slack. It's my fault. I need to keep her under better control - and even though I know she is a puppy - I'm going to have to teach her myself what is acceptable with the cats and what isn't. *sigh* Maybe getting something that shocks her into paying attention would help like you said. Pennies might work - but unfortunatly I know hand clapping and "NO!" doesn't work when she gets really excited . Do dog whistles really work? It makes me wonder if the cats could hear it too...
I'm going to get her enrolled in classes as soon as I can (I really need some coaching to make sure I am doing everything right)... still have to wait for the rest of her shots though. Brad and I are also talking about getting her a martingale collar so if she pulls it'll squeeze her a bit. This might reduce the "hanging" herself thing. I know dogs do that sometimes... but when I see her on her back legs... and litterally straining still to run at something... wheeew! It's so creepy. I took a break earlier, then I came back here too look and even though I know you were just kidding Gato - I got upset again when you said to switch the cats in for a dog.
I know I sound like such a weirdo to some people - but I really love my cats a lot and they were here first. So it's kinda weird for me to ask a serious question and get such an odd answer back - even if it was trying to be light hearted. While I know they need to get used to her and have to change - I don't want her to drive them away each and everytime I am near them. If she is a velcro dog - then she needs to get along with my very velcro cats which are really suffering right now because they also like following me around and being with me just as much as she does - but can't because she wants to pounce them to death (whether she means to or not). |
| I can understand you feelings since I have multiple cats (all fully armed with claws) and two sheepdogs (Baxter is three years old, Cassiopia is a almost two years old). Both of them will cheerfully chase the cats around the house (since it is a ranch they can build up quite a bit of speed). Like Momo, Cassiopia will play extremely roughly (to my eyes) with her special cat, Pearl. And, although Pearl has lots of places to escape, she seems to love the play and will come back for more!
When it gets too rough, I put a leash on Cassiopia and put her in a down-stay for at least 10 minutes. That seems to calm things down. Sometimes I may have to do this two or three times a night - depending on how energetic Cassiopia and Pearl are being. Once I release Cassiopia from the leash, I provide a toy as a distraction. It doesn't always work - mainly because Pearl will still want to play, but it's worth a try. Baxter's special cat, Rigel, will come up to Baxter and swat him on the nose if he is bored just to get Baxter to join in the game of tag. At first, I was concerned because of the weight differential (Baxter weighs in at 98 pounds, Rigel is 10 pounds) however it didn't seem to matter to them. So now I just monitor it and step in to calm things down if they get too rough. Momo will learn how to play with the cats soon with your help - and she may end up with a scratch or two on her nose as the cats teach her appropriate behavior. Good Luck Jennifer, Baxter, Cassiopia and Sharkey |
| Hi Integra,
Don't worry it does get better. I completely understand your concern for your cats. My first thought is that Momo is of course a herder, and she might be trying to nip and herd by stepping on them, just because she is uncoordinated with her big puppy body still. Another thing, is there anyplace you can put a baby gate with a small hole cut just for the cats, so when they decided they have had enough "puppy love" that they can go to a special place to be away from Momo. If a puppy gate, or a kitty door isn't an option, how about a tall cat tree, one that they can get up high and away from Momo. Momo is 4 months, and it is still a great time to start training at home, she won't be consistant, but there will be times that you can say a command and her listen, but you can also set it up that she always wins. She needs to of course learn the basics, but there is one more that always helps when our crew, cats, dogs, and kids want to get wild. We have a settle rug, I have mentioned it several times, but it works so wonderful and it doesn't take too long for them to figure it out. Find a quiet place in your house that you would like her to have to settle when she gets too hyper, or when company is over and they aren't as fond of your fluffy sheepie as all of us are. LOL Once you pick the place, find a nice blanket for Momo ONLY. It will need to stay down all the time. Then, get a leash, and attach it somewhere that Momo can still get up walk around a little, but can only really be on that settle area. Now, just sit with her and get her comfortable with this new area, maybe even a few treats, so that she associates the spot with treats. Now, leave and tell her to "settle", she will probably try to follow, but the leash stops her, and then tell her "good, Settle" and another treat. Eventually, in a few months, maybe less, she will know when you say settle that she needs to go to her spot and have some quiet time. Eventually, Momo will find the cats not so exciting, and also she will get older and settle down and hopefully the cats and her will be good friends soon. I hope I have helped some. If, I think of anything else I will let you know. Good luck, Stormi |
| Thank you Stormi - that's exactly what I needed to hear. I've calmed down a lot from yesterday. I know she is just a puppy - but goodness - my kitties are my babies too and I don't think I could deal with them beating up on each other.
I think the quiet place would be such a good idea. I was using her crate as her quiet place for a while - but maybe a nice blanket and some treats would make her happier. I think I still have the leash she came with - it isn't adjustable so it should keep her in a small area if I attach it to a door handle. Thank you again. |
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