Please help.
From what I know of Patty's past she belonged to a single mom and a young girl, she was kept indoors until the mother adopted a pregnant mother Lhaso apso, when the puppies were born Patty was sent to a small fenced in yard to live. When we picked her up it was over 100 degrees and she was outside, half shaved, the other half so matted that we took her to the groomer and had the rest shaved. The day we picked her up she was shaved so close that it caused razor burns all over her butt which were covered in flies and nats. The woman told us Patty hadn't eaten in three days!!! We couldn't leave her there. One and a half weeks later Patty is a totally different dog, she has formed a deep bond with everyone in the family except my son. Again, I know this is serious, and I am committed to giving the best to both Patty and my family. Any and all suggestion would be appreciated. I have read through other posts on this board and I respect would all of you share. We are now starting to kennel train her, and that's where she is while we eat and when I am at work. Luckily I only work part time so the most she is in the kennel is five hours a day. Please help, I love Patty so much and I can't imagine giving her away or worse. Sincerely, Heidi and Patty |
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| I think maybe Patty is reacting to a pack member she considers.......please excuse I how put this.......not normal. It is normal pack behavior to pick on or even drive out pack members who others consider damaged or in some way too different. Patty has to be trained your son is of higher order in the pack and a valued member. He should be feeding her, making her sit before getting her food. He needs to take a leadership role. You also need to inforce that Patty is not to harm your son. You don't wait until she reacts, you learn to read her body language and stop her and refocus her energy. Right now Patty is trying to run the pack. You need to become the leader and enforcer. You can be a strong leader and forceful enforcer without using violence. Remember dog don't speak our language so you need to develop sharp forceful sounds to catch her attention. |
| I agree with what SheepieBoss says. I have two sheepdogs that I adore- both with behavioral problems. Training is the answer to ALL of our issues. When we don't train, they begin to get tense and the problems begin to surface. Even in a perfectly well behaved sheepdog, you have to remember that this is a working breed- and often times they need a job to do or they begin to act out in little and not so little ways. A great way to help Patty see your son as someone to be respected and not a "behavior trigger" might be to have him involved in a training class with her! That way, she has to respect him, AND she's doing a job. Not knowing Patty's full past, for all you know she might have been abused by a boy in the neighborhood while living out in the yard. Your son might be triggering negative reflexes in Patty that have nothing to do with his ADHD. I'd say first off, find a new trainer. If the one you conferred with said "Put her to sleep" and its not a solution you are comfortable with, know that there are many different opinions among trainers about dogs, and how to deal with behavioral issues. Maybe try looking into a dog trainer that deals specifically with aggressive dogs (this is what I did, even though my two aren't aggressive) or see if you can find a behaviorist that can meet with you and evaluate Patty. GOOD LUCK, and don't give up hope! This might all be very manageable! |
SheepieBoss wrote: I think maybe Patty is reacting to a pack member she considers.......please excuse I how put this.......not normal. It is normal pack behavior to pick on or even drive out pack members who others consider damaged or in some way too different. I agree and disagree with this statement at the same time. I understand that it is difficultly that comes with ADD and ADHD. My fiance's lil bro has ADHD and my fiance has ADD. "I could see Patty getting irritated while my son was sitting in the chair next to her flinging himself forward and backward." She was getting irritated with him, just like you and I, dogs have a limit of what they will and will not tolerate. I honestly don't know if my dogs, who are trained to go to work with me to be therapy dogs for adults with developmental delays, could handle being around my fiance's lil brother all the time. After a day of him visiting my dogs are usually clinging to my side more than usual or hiding in one of the bedrooms. So here is my advice: You need to become the pack leader, where patty will come to you for guidance instead of acting on her own. It's critical that your son be a part of this training too. He needs to be a part of everything. Training, training and more training. Go to training classes with her and your son. Start with basic obediance. It will have to be a daily thing, as often as you, your son and patty can do it during the day. If the bond isn't there you need to work hard to create it. I am not trying to be mean or say anything negative about you as a mother but you may have to try meds or treatment with your son to control his behavior. (If you want to go that far to keep your dog) |
| She's likely just not used to the movement... no ones fault, just possibly not the right dog for your family. I know that's not what you want to hear and this is just one opinion... I'm not an expert by any means. I just know that it has to be a match for both the family... especially when children are in the home... and the dog or life will be difficult. Your son's movements are going to happen at times and you've got a dog that has now proven she's going to respond negatively to it. With that said, have you checked with any other trainers? If you keep her, it's going to take constant, and I mean constant, supervision. As Susan says, getting to read the dog well and understanding when to step in to prevent a bite is imperative. But even those well versed in dog body language can err... a reaction can happen so quickly and there isn't always time to step in to prevent it. If she truly lands a good bite, it could cause serious injury and trauma to your son and Patty could loose her life anyway. I almost always give a dog the benefit of the doubt  ... rather than compassionately put to rest, she may just need in a less active home. The other side of this is she's only been with you 3 weeks... that's very little time to settle in. It can take months. Personally, I think you need to quickly bring in a professional if you want to try work through this behavior... maybe a behaviorist. Others may be able to give you much better opinions. No matter what, you did a good thing getting Patty out of the situation she was in.  |
| I have seen some OES that will let children and other pets walk all over them and they just dont mind... then there are some that do mind... As much as I love OES I think your kids safty must always come first. You have had this dog long enough to know you love the breed.... I would consider a different home for the dog you have now... one without children....but lots of love... and search for an OES with an extremely laid back personality. There are plenty of them out there...and maybe starting with a younger pup or a dog that is very use to childern you would not have any issues. I am sure you will get lots of different advice, some of it will be excellent advice.... however.....sad but true ... you will have to make the final decision. |
| Like I was saying earlier, both my girls have behavioral problems that we handle really well with training. We did a few agility classes, obedience classes, off leash training-- heck we even recently did a tricks class! What we call "constant training" doesn't have to be a chore. I take my girls down to our basement which is in the midst of being remodeled- its a wide open space and nice and cool this time of year. I make them take turns doing "Shake" and spinning in circles and crawling to me on their stomachs and other tricks we learned. Sometimes we make up new tricks, just to keep it interesting. I usually do this for about 20 minutes, but sometimes up to an hour. And they love it. Other times I break out some Agility equipment in the back yard and have them do commands using Jumps or weaves and tunnels. Its fun, and it can be a game or a sport. Playing fetch can be a training session- I tell my dog where to put the ball when they get it, it makes it more of a challenge and smart dogs need and enjoy challenges. My husband and I don't have kids. About a month ago we had a barbecue, and we had 7 children at the house, all between the ages of 4 and 8 years old, and ALL of whom wanted to play with the dogs. They'd scream and yell and give the dogs conflicting commands all at the same time. After about 6 hours of this, my girls snapped; they could only take so much. However when they finally lost it, they didn't go for a little kid, they attacked each other. I've spent many, many hours training to make sure (as much as any person can) that my girls never bite a person. I think any dog can be worn thin by children if they aren't used to them, and if the behavior goes on for long enough. It may have little to do with your son's ADHD and may just have to do with Patty not being accustomed to him and she reacted in a way that isn't appropriate. Don't give up hope- interview different trainers and see if you can find someone that you think can help your family out! |
Sheepdog Lover wrote: I have seen some OES that will let children and other pets walk all over them and they just dont mind... then there are some that do mind... As much as I love OES I think your kids safty must always come first. You have had this dog long enough to know you love the breed.... I would consider a different home for the dog you have now... one without children....but lots of love... and search for an OES with an extremely laid back personality. There are plenty of them out there...and maybe starting with a younger pup or a dog that is very use to childern you would not have any issues. I am sure you will get lots of different advice, some of it will be excellent advice.... however.....sad but true ... you will have to make the final decision. Sheepdog Lover makes an excellent point- If Patty really won't work out with your family, it doesn't mean you have to put her down. Perhaps you can work with your local rescue to find a good home, without children, for her instead. And all the while Rescue could help keep an eye out for a dog that may work better with your family's specific needs. The suggestion to look into a puppy is also a good one, but I think its really important to make sure you pursue that option with a reputable breeder vs. a backyard breeder- they'll be able to help place the right puppy with you, as opposed to whatever puppy they need to sell to make a buck. A reputable breeder will have been breeding with the dog's temperment in mind, and not just financial gain. And that will be a very important factor for you and your son. |
| Thank you all for your generous and kind suggestions. My son is on medication for ADHD but only during the school year so it is something we can look into year round, could certainly help. We will be attending basic obedience training soon. And of course I will make sure my kids and Patty are safe at ALL TIMES:) In addition I did some internet research on the kennel where Patty was originally whelped and found some pretty scary reviews, parvo, worms, not socialized, etc. I know this could make the situation seem even worse but I feel like Patty is lucky to be alive. I'm feeling a little better about things today. Once again, thank you all for your support. |
| Feeling better is a good start- when our girls began their bad behaviors (fighting, food guarding, etc), there was a lot of despair and crying on our side of things. Staying positive helps, but finding the right trainer is going to be essential. A class might not be the best place to start- you don't know how Patty does in a group social setting. If its within your ability to do so, you might want to consider one-on-one training. I know it can be expensive, but its some of the best money we ever spent. Also? Why not consider registering here on OES.org and joining our little community! We love sharing photos, fun stories and updates, and the forum can be a great resource for you as a new OES owner! |
Darth Snuggle wrote: Also? Why not consider registering here on OES.org and joining our little community! We love sharing photos, fun stories and updates, and the forum can be a great resource for you as a new OES owner! Yes, join! Everyone is so helpful and nice with those issues that only sheepies have. This is a great support system to have for your naughty (but nice) sheepies. |
| Officially joined group. Looking forward to learning from all of you. PS. In regards to giving Patty a "job" to do. We have no sheep, I walk her twice a day in addition to playing fetch and running with her by my side in our yard. Are there other "jobs" she could be taught? |
| Sheepdogs seem to be a natural fit for agility and rally. Those would be two excellent activities for your sheepie. And, believe it or not, there are sheep herding trials all over the U.S. I'm sure Patty would love doing that. |
| I make my girls Tonks and Luna "work" for everything-- our trainer taught us that for dogs like them, dogs that need jobs, nothing in life comes free. So if they want a treat, they have to perform a command to get it. Time for dinner? Do a command. It's amazing how the simplest task can become a "job", and thereby fulfill the need for our dogs to be "working". I ask my girls to SIT before we go through a door. They have to WAIT before we start our evening walk. SHAKE if they want a treat, GO TO PLACE when the doorbell rings... things like that. Our dogs will even GO TO PLACE now when the house cleaners tell them too; and they GET YOUR BALL for the guys doing renovations on our basement. They like doing their commands, and certain things have become habitual. But its because we made them part of our everyday routine, and not just for when we are at classes. |
| I agree with everyone who has said Patty needs a pack leader and she needs to learn to have respect for your son and any child that comes into your home. Seems like Patty was not properly socialized from the breeders home and then into the home you picked her up from. Throwing an Old English out of the home to live in a small fenced in area in the sweltering heat and left to starve will definitely change the dog's personality. This poor dog needs to learn trust and what it means to feel wanted and loved. It would benefit the dog and your family for all to attend training together. I would also let your son feed her with you supervising,but he needs to teach her to sit for her food,first and foremost.This would teach Patty to have respect for him. Keeping her on a light weight leash with supervision will work wonders also. Trust,respect,feeling wanted and loved is my thoughts.Patty hopefully is still young enough so that she can learn how to live in a loving home. Thank you for rescuing her and giving her a chance in life.Please let us know her progress. Robin |
| Each day just keeps getting better and better! My son has been been feeding, walking, and helping to train Patty with simple commands like, Sit. She hasn't shown a lick of aggresion towards him since the incident on Friday. I also had a long talk with my son about his behaviors and if he catches himself getting restless or twitchy to either stop the behavior or leave the room. I even think this whole thing is helping him decrease the amount of tics he has. I commented today on how calm he's been lately and asked him if he was doing that on purpose, he replied, "YES, and it's dang hard!" We are thinking about using a trainer that comes to our home and works with our whole family...not sure if I can name the organization here but they talk about using dog language to communicate with our dogs...not sure what I think about that but all of this is new to me. We have also set up a place for Patty to go, away from the chaos in the family if is she is feeling stressed...of course she won't go there unless one of us goes with her but it does seem to help. I found out that the breeder that Patty came from has many accusations against her for neglect, sending sick puppies to people, etc. I feel like Patty is lucky to be alive, and we are lucky to have her in our family. It doesn't seem like she was socialized much. She's crazy around other dogs, barking, jumping, growling, but seems very curious and sweet with cats, genuinley confused when they tell her to back off. Like I said we have so much to learn. We do have an issue with Patty spazzing out when anyone of us gets home after being gone, even coming in from watering the garden, she jumps and uses her mouth to tell me she loves me! Anyone have suggestions on how to handle this? Thanks again! |
| For the happy greeting - Be really low key and minimize any excitement when you come back in. Only acknowledge and pet her when she's calmer and all 4 feet are on the floor. It may be beneficial to have a stuffie toy in your hand or at least close at hand, as you come in, and encourage her to vent on it instead of you. Our toy bin just happens to be near our door, and Chewie almost always grabs a toy when I come in the door from work (I work 12 hour shifts)...and he knows I won't even do anything w/ him or the other dogs until I'm in and set down my work bag, laptop and purse. And with a herd greeting me, it has always been essential that they behave before I greet them after being gone. Add in a foster or two with no manners, and it would be chaos! |
| Dawn offers great advice. My girl Tiggy was a nut case when I got home, barking and jumping. I have a baby gate at the kitchen door that stops her getting to the front door and she knocked it right out of the door frame a couple of times she was so silly. I started coming in the front door and going straight to my bedroom to get changed first I didn't even say hello while she was being silly. Then I would come to the baby gate and stand still and not look at her till she calmed down. For quite a few weeks it would take half a dozen tries to get the gate open as every time I touched it she would get silly so I would take my hand off the gate and wait till she calmed down. To stop the barking I kept a stuffie or a tug toy on my side of the baby gate and would give it to her to hold in her mouth. Now she runs away from the gate to find her own toy to carry and I still praise her lots for that behaviour. It did take quite a long time to get the behaviour under control. Perhaps not as long as it seemed to my ear drums but none the less it was weeks not days. However I will add that my DH did not help as he is too impatient to wait out the unpleasant behaviour so he never waited till Tiggy was calm before he came through the gate. I think that Tiggy would have learnt the behaviour I wanted much sooner if both of us had given her the same message. Tiggy still barks and jumps when DH gets her lead for a walk and she doesn't when I have her lead. But she is over 3 now and has figured out that there are things that she cannot get away with when it's me. |
| Just want to say I hope things continue to improve and I hope Patty becomes a close member of your family and a close friend to your son! |
| Quick update: Things continue to improve, yesterday was our two week anniversary of adopting Patty. Second vet check yesterday and the vet was amazed at how quickly all of her sores have healed up! YAY! She continues to bond with us and now listens to my son and follows his commands. Even her nervous excitement when I first get home seems to have lessened, a tiny bit. I'm going to try to post a few pictures, not sure if this will work.    |
Awesome news and I know this must make you and your family very happy  Patty is a cutie and sounds like she is starting to fit right in with your family. Thank you for sharing the happy news! Give Patty a big hug for me along with your son. Robin |
| Great news! That second photo kills me. I love to see a previously spastic dog that relaxed. And the last photo is clearly a VERY happy dog. Great job and keep up the training. Vance |
| You must be so proud of your son, too, for working so hard to help Patty adjust to life in your family. Love the pictures, keep them coming! |
| we pretty much have the same story so I thought I'd post. Ryleigh was 7 months old when we rescued her from a young family who moved out of their house and left her in the backyard. In Texas July heat!  She was matted to the skin with stickers and sticks in her hair. We had to shave her all the way down as well. The groomer did good though, she didnt get a razor burn on her.  I too have a 13 year old son who has ADHD and only takes meds (focalin xr) during school year. He doesnt have "tics" but he can be very hyper and always moving about the house. This gets Ryleigh wanting to play and sometimes she "nips" him in the butt. We correct her as we can and things have improved. We also correct him because it drives me nuts when he gets all 3 of our dogs going.  Ryleigh also gets excited when we come home. Wants to jump. We turn our back to her and say "no jump" sometimes it works, sometimes not. Still a work in process. This could be from abandonment issues. Takes them time to learn they arent being left forever again. When we first brought Ryleigh home she wouldnt go out back to pee by herself. I really believe she was scared she was going to be left outside again. Weve had her almost a year now and she still pees facing the door to keep an eye on us. It takes time. Took her several months to even know what to do with a ball. It was a proud mom moment when she brought it to me to play. Give her time and patience is all I can offer. Sounds like things are working out. Oh my son also feeds the dogs lunch and dinner. This helps I think. |
I'm happy to hear you all are making progress. Those pictures are GREAT!!  |
| Glad things are improving for you and our family. Love your pictures! |
| Love the pics. She looks like such a happy girl. |
| so glad to see you are all making progress and what great pics she is lucky to have you |
| Two steps forward, one step back... Seems to be the theme for our lovely Patty. Training will be going great, amazing really, and then whammo, she has a day where she won't listen at all and growls and nips! UGH! We immediatly discipline her with a swat on the nose and a low growlie no, and she retreats to her quiet area for awhile. Then she's fine the rest of the day. I have learned so much from reading all the other posts and I don't think she has any underlying health issues, we've been to the vet twice already and have to go back next week for a booster shot. We have also been couped up in the house a lot more with the heat, but I think a part of it is when we give her an inch she takes a mile! The second we let her on the couch or let her have the run of the house she starts acting up. I know, bad owner! I love Patty dearly and we will do everything in our power to make this work but I seriously had no idea exactly how much WORK it is. Feels like having another newborn. Only this one has razor sharp teeth and weighs 65 pounds:) |
| It sounds like Patty is making progress! One thing being a dog owner has thought me is patience.  For me it was my cocker spaniel testing my patience as our sheepie Pita's behavior was flawless.... to my memory  But it seems like your son taking an active role in feeding Patty and giving commands is going well. That's awesome news!!! ETA: Patty has the sweetest face in that close up photo~  |
| Please don't give up its been such a short time and ya'll have made so much progress. Except for our OES all our dogs have been rescues(for the last 15yrs) Rescues more than any dog need that consistancy to feel secure. Any changes can throw them back into that nippy,growly,pushy- they need to be in control behavior. These are the dogs that benefit most from the Nothing In Life Is Free life style. My experience is it takes 6months-1year for a dog to really feel secure. No it doesn't take that long for a good family pet-it just means during that time frame you will still at times see behavior that is a throw back to an earlier life. What I love most about "recycled dogs" is they really show how much they appriciate being saved  Not so my spoiled princess of an OES,she has never had a rough day in her life  |
| Okay, I have to chime in here. First off this is a dog. When the dog acts up you punish the dog for that behavior. You don't have to get rid of it or send it to expensive training classes. You just have to discipline them. Dogs, especially Sheepies are like children. If unattended they will get into trouble. If not disciplined they will grow up to be nightmares. When your child hits another kid, what do you do? You tell them "NO". You do not allow that behavior. Its the same with a sheepie. When the sheepie bit your son you should have told him "NO" then pulled him back and made him "SIT" or what ever you feel is appropiate. Since your dog seems to have a problem with only your son than it is your son who needs to start taking control with the dog. What I would do is put your son with the dog 24/7 for a while. Make your son walk him, feed him, etc.... start having your son work on dog tricks like sit, and stay. sheepies are "Leader" dogs. If you don't take control, and become the leader, they WILL!! This "Leader" behavior they have never ends so being in control is something you must ALWAYS do. You can't just say "NO" once, then the next day allow it. Like with a kid "NO, means NO" and you must always inforce this. Sheepies are seriously brilliant and easy to train. I am always shocked as to how easy it is to train my Sheepie. I literally showed my dog a newspaper once. I said "Newspaper". The next day I was taking the trash to the curb. My Sheepie of course has to escort me to do everything so she was outside helping of sorts. She started wanting to play while I was attempting to drag the trash to the curb. I said "STOP and go pick up the paper or something" I was being completely sarcastic! To my SHOCK she went over and picked up the newspaper! I could not believe it. Then she took it in the house and gave it to my husband. Shes brought it in ever since. She gets the mail, brings me a kleenex, turns lights off and on among other things. The lights on and off thing took a couple of days but everything else took about 10 minutes and I am not kidding! It is that easy! The main key in training a sheepie is to make it fun for them. If your son would just stand infront of the dog and say "SIT" firmly, giving the dog a treat when he does it, than within 5 minutes that dog would be sitting. Same goes for bad behavior. Tell the dog "NO" and do not allow it to bite or even show aggressive behavior towards your son. Every time it even looks wrong at your son you must tell the dog "NO" and correct that behavior. If you do this consistantly within about an hour your dog and son will be best friends. Please do NOT listen to the dingy dog trainer who told you the dog has a problem and needs to be put down. The trainer has a problem, not the dog! Sheepdogs are very different from most breeds. They can and will test the waters. They know what you want them to do but being sheepies they don't always want to do it. That is why consistancy is so important. You get out of your children what you put into them. Same goes for a dog. If you want a good dog you have to teach them to be good. There isn't a lightning bolt that comes out of the sky that suddenly makes your dog perfect. It is something you must work on. Do NOT give up on this dog. This isn't a dog problem but a people problem. You are allowing the dog to be aggressive to your son. The solution is to not allow it anymore. I know that sounds corny and easier said than done but it truly is that simple. Good Luck and remember "YOU CAN DO THIS"!! |
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