Potty training is going to be the end of me!
 He is my 12 week old puppy (he'll be 12 weeks tomorrow!). We have been on a roller coaster with Hudson. <NOTE: Some of you already know this story, since I posted for advice 2 weeks ago, but bear with me for a second.> First we were having the hardest time crate training him...mostly because he had an accident every 10 minutes! I wish I was exaggerating. For the first 2 weeks (we got him at 9 weeks old), I was either cleaning up after him or constantly running him outside. I couldn't figure it out...sometimes in a span of the 10 minutes that we were outside he would pee 3 times! This is my first puppy, but I knew something was wrong. I took him to the vet and it turns out he had a severe UTI and a parasite. The vet put him on an antibiotic for both. He started his medication a little over a week ago and ended it last Friday. I definitely noticed a difference. He started gaining weight and wasn't having AS frequent of accidents... However, Hudson is continuing to have an incredible amount of accidents in the house and in his crate. He has someone with him constantly to take him out every couple hours, after playing, after napping, and 15 minutes after every meal. At night I keep him on a schedule and take him out at 10:30pm, 1:00am, 3:30am and again at 6:00am...so roughly every 2.5 hours. I'm EXHAUSTED from this schedule and feel like at his age (3 months) he should be able to hold his bladder for about 3-4 hours. The past couple nights I tired weaning him off the schedule and taking him out every 3.5 hours...every night I would wake up to hear him peeing in the crate...by the time I could get up and rush to the crate to take him out he would be frantically lapping it up (totally gross!) I've tried everything in his crate...I sectioned it off and made it small enough for him, I didn't put blankets down or put toys in there. But he has no problem peeing in his crate and laying in it...so I've started taking out the divider and putting a towel or blanket in there so he at least isn't laying in it. I've been giving him almost daily baths so he doesn't get use to the small of urine. I'm at a loss...should I go back to sectioning off the crate? He get's unlimited water throughout the day...he doesn't drink a TON (something I noticed that is a huge difference from when he had his UTI..he was CONSTANTLY drinking water)...and I take the water away around 8:30pm to prepare for bed time, but I usually give him a little sip after he pees outside throughout the night. Could this be from his UTI and that maybe he doesn't know how to control his bladder since he had the UTI for so long? I was worried about a kidney infection, but he has no other symptoms. There really isn't a "schedule" to his accidents. Sometimes he'll have one while we are playing or training and it almost seems like he's peeing out of frustration...or excitement...? My biggest thing is that he doesn't give me any warning when he's in his crate...he doesn't cry, bark or whine... Thanks for sticking with me through this novel! Please let me know if anyone has had experience in this or can offer any advice! P.S. I am planning on starting puppy school with him in the next two weeks or so...I was considering also getting a personal trainer to work with him on the potty training...is this necessary? Thank you!!! He looks SO happy to be taking a picture with his Mommy...     |
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| HI What a cute puppy... He looks very happy in his pictures. I can't offer alot of advice, but I'm sure someone will have some great ideas. When we got Frankie at 9 weeks old, he wouldn't potty train either, always peeing on his pillow in his crate. He would flip it over so you didn't know he had an accident. Took him to the vet and he also had a uti. Not very common in males I was told. It took I think 3 rounds of antibiotics to get rid of his uti. I always new when it had come back, because he would go outside potty then come in the house and pee on the carpet. Very frustrating. Have you talked to your vet about this? Maybe there could be something else wrong. Did they mention if his urine was concentrated or not? Good luck with your sweet baby. Lisa Frankie and Mattie |
When Simon was a pup he too would pee in the house often...we finally resorted to taking him outside every half hour while awake. It took some time but one day he stopped peeing in the house and started to ring the bell.  |
| Shannon and Hudson: I am sorry you are having a rough time with potty training and since I haven't read your other posts but I found a few helpful things when I was training Heart (many,many moons ago...  )Those first few months of training, I think it is more about 'timing' and "trial and error" more than anything else. After eating..outside for 15 minutes. (or if you find that pup is just sitting there,not even interested in doing his thing, next time wait 10 minutes before you take him out.) Same thing in regards to drinking. Some pups get antsy when they have to go. Those are the easy ones...   IF Hudson gives NO clues, then you may have to teach him a clue. Have you tried bells????? My daughter trained her AM Bull Dog beginning when she was only 10 weeks old to ring the bells at the back door to go out. Now, at 1 1/2 years, Domino knows what to do and loves to ring her bells!! Another thing I found so helpful was treats!!! Try to find a treat that Hudson just loves!!!! (a bliss point for him!!) And ONLY give it to him when he does his peeing outside! AS SOON as he FINISHES ~~ HAVE A PARTY!!!! WHOO_HOO.   ..Hudson!!~!~ Good to potty...good to potty...and give him not one or two but three or four of those lucious treats..all the while saying good to potty..Your neighbors will think you are crazy ...and it will take sooo many potties for them to get it..probably about 122,2356,976,973,789,0865,997,976,877, times~~~ BUT AFTER he gets it....after he realizes (as pavlovsdog) that potty means squatting and squatting means a very very special treat~~~ you will have won the battle!!! At four years old, I can say to Heart..(in the rain, snow, sunshine) go potty...and she will walk a few steps and squat. She also will poo on command too!!! It makes for a very nice pupper!!!! Good luck!!! and he is a cutiepatooti!!! Keep your sense of humor...he will grow up so fast!!!!  |
| I would suggest going back to the vet and re-testing for another or continuing infection. Sometimes it takes more that one round of medicine to completely wipe it out. It may seem "better" for awhile, but it isn't completely gone. Also, the weeks of the infection have set you back...because it is hard for him to know that it isn't "normal" or okay to just pee when you want. We had this exact problem with Izzie...as a pup she had multiple uti's weeks apart...it was soooo frustrating. Also, when you extend the time between night potty breaks try to only add an extra 15 minutes at a time. A smaller amount of time shouldn't be as noticeable to his system. |
| How can you be upset with anything that cute?? He still a baby and his plumbing hasn't finished growing. This may be a long haul....males are slow to mature. I second/third whatever the UTI problem. I assume when you clean up you are not using an ammonia based cleaner, that smells like pee to them and they assume it is OK to pee there. Hang in there, some boys take until 4 month or so to get it down. Yeah, the crate must only be large enough to turn around, no extra space for peeing. |
| Thanks for the advice everyone! I just got done cleaning up two accidents, one after the other...surprise, surprise! But it's hard to be upset with him, with his little puppy eyes and big furry paws. He's just too adorable. I think I will take him back into the vet to see if he may need a second dose of antibiotics. I'm wondering if since the UTI was so severe, maybe one dose was not enough? I will definitely ask the vet if the urine is concentrated...I can't remember if he mentioned anything about that. Poor Hudson...this will be his 4th visit to the vet in the 3.5 weeks he's been living with us. I have been training Hudson on the bells too! My parents had two giant Bernese Mountain Dogs, Kenai and Koda (just one now, unfortunately Koda passed away) but they were both trained on the bells, which is SO helpful. Hudson spends a lot of time with Kenai, so I am hoping that watching Kenai ring the bells and go out will help him catch on a little bit. That's a great idea to extend the time by only 15 minutes. I hadn't thought about that. I was a little concerned when I heard him lapping up his accident the past few nights....has anyone else had their puppy do this? I looked online and I found a few sites that said it was very uncommon (more common for the pups to eat their own feces) but that it could be a vitamin deficiency OR he could be worried about getting in trouble and "hiding" the evidence. I've been very careful to not scold him when he has an accident, especially since he couldn't help it with his infection. We aren't using an ammonia based product to clean up...we use a bleach based puppy cleaner for the inside of his crate (obvi let it air out before putting him in there with the smell) and a SHOUT puppy cleaner for carpets and floors. He rarely pee's in the same spot though. It sounds like having a hard time with potty training is a relatively normal thing for puppy owners...so I am a little less worried. I have to say though, I will miss his little puppy face and puppy clumsiness but I will be VERY excited to be out of the accident and biting phase.  Another question...as far as obedience classes...do they touch on potty training? Or is it mostly commands? Has anyone gone to an obedience class offered at Petsmart? I have a Petsmart very close, but I have heard mixed reviews about training your puppy in the middle of a retail store. I have no idea though... Thanks again everyone! Your ideas and suggestions are so helpful! |
| Honestly, though potty training takes work, it shouldn't be this hard. Third me on having him rechecked for a recurring/unresolved UTI. Some classes will touch on potty training. If they don't specifically you can always bring it up during the "anyone have any questions" section. And then all the other owners who are ALSO having problems, but don't want to admit it  will quietly thank you and chime in and you can learn from each other. I'd also give his breeder an update, let him or her know that you're still struggling, what you're doing about it, and ask for advice. Kristine |
| I think you are right to take him back to the vet. It does seem like something medical, rather than behavioral at this point. He is a cutie pie!  Laurie and Oscar |
| Hi Shannon and Hudson, First thing, Hudson is adorable!  My little Teddy is 5 months old now and I too was getting frustrated with potty training. I definitely believe the statement about the boys having trouble until they are about 4 months old. He never had a UTI but I still closely manage his water intake. He does better now with bigger amounts of water, but I still don't put a big dish down for him to drink a lot at one time. I would only give him 4 ounces of water at a time to help train him to hold it to go outside. Every time I'd try more than that at one drink, he would have an accident within minutes of potty outside. He would drink, I'd take him out in about 15 to 20 minutes, he'd potty good and we'd be back in the house and maybe 5 to 10 minutes later he have an accident. So I stuck to the 4 ounces for what seemed like forever. I would also cut off the water at least 2 hours before bedtime. I got Teddy when he was 9 weeks old and he wasn't crate trained but did well right from the start. He knew he had to go outside to potty and would go to the door but I had to get that door open fast or oops!....lol He finally figured out to bark or whine at me when he has to go out. I tell him let's go potty outside and as we hit the grass I say "go potty" and as soon as he's done I start with the praises "good potty outside, good boy, good boy"  and just keep the praises going until we are back inside and then give him a treat.He hasn't had an accident in the crate so I know he could hold it. I think it was just to easy to let it go where ever he was in the house. It all got better when he was 4 months old. He just had to grow up more. Everything started getting better, potty training and puppy biting. Have tons of toys for playing and chewing. Teddy loves bully sticks for chewing. Of course never let them have anything without supervision. I don't put things in the crate because I worry about choking. As far as the Petsmart training class, I don't care for training there because it's a very small area to train in and the one by me doesn't believe in using pinch collars for training. If used correctly, they are a wonderful training aide and save your shoulder and arm from all the pulling and yanking. Check around to see if there is a kennel club in your area that offers training classes. Stay strong and keep positive with the training!  I promise, it will get easier in another month or so. I didn't think Teddy would ever stop having accidents in the house and then it happened after he was into his 4th month old. I loved the cute little puppy for cuddling, but didn't enjoy the potty training frustration....lolPuppies are a lot of work but so worth the effort. We did puppy kindergarten class and are now into our 3rd week of beginner obedience training class. Teddy's doing great but I spend lots of time training, socializing and loving him. I'm so glad I was able to take him to Sheepiepalooza. He did so many new things and was such a good boy. Good luck with Hudson's training and remember to have fun! Cindy and Teddy |
| You've gotten some good advice but a very important thing to remember is that for most large breed puppies they simply do not have muscle control to prevent urination accidents much before 16 weeks of age. Some pups seem to have caught on before that but usually it's the owners who are trained not the puppy. You're on the right track... be patient.... he's just a baby and he just doesn't know yet. Most pups don't feel they have to pee until they are already doing it. |
| Hahahah Potty training feels like that for everyone. It definitly could be that hudson having a uti taught him not to hold it. It could be his UTI is back. Unfortunatly (even in humans) it is common to have one UTI after the other. Having diffculty potty training is very normal. If he's having accidents on carpet, I would use vineger for urine, it is an enzyme killer but you have to catch it right away. You soak up the pee, pour on the vinegar, let it sit for 15 mins, then soak up the vinegar. I have never crate trained a dog but im sure potty training is all the same, basically. Feeding schedule, take them out ever hour, extend the time they hold it by only a half hr but go back to the time frame it was before if they have an accident. 3-4 hrs before bedtime take away food and water. Stand outside as long as it takes for them to go potty. Lots of treats and lots of praise. peeing and pooping outside is the greatest thing in the world! Also when he does pee outside say pee, when he poo's the same thing, poop. That way you can get him to potty outside on command. if you forget you trained them like that, it can result in your well trained puppy peeing or pooing in the house when you say the words pee or poop. It has happened to me. "lets go outside to pee!" oops. Hang in there, I know its rough. Lily didnt get it til 4 months and then it just clicked. she hasn't had an accident since and shes now 8 months. |
| Thanks again everyone! All of your advice is wonderful! I did take Hudson to the vet; we just got back. Before we even got there I was POSITIVE he had another UTI (he had 4 accidents between getting into the car, the 10 minute drive, and walking into the vet). Sure enough, the vet said he definitely still has one, or it has come back. He's on another antibiotic, which should last about 2 weeks. I'm going to try and limit his water a little bit. I usually put water in his food, so maybe I'll stop doing that for a little bit. Since he obviously can't help having accidents, should I still continue with crate training? If he is going to have accidents anyways, I don't want him to sit in it in the crate...maybe I'll just take him out more often throughout the night? Thanks again all. Your advice and suggestions is very appreciated. I'm looking forward to this magical 4th month that everyone seems to be having luck with. I'm also excited for my little guy to get healthy again! |
| Hi Shannon, All good advice here. My breeder believes an 8 week old pup can go 6-7 hours through the night providing water has been taken away by 8pm. I did that (after getting up every few hours with Bentley for the first few days we had him. (he's 5months old now). That is all unimportant at the moment as you need to first get that infection cleared up. Poor baby. He isn't feeling good. All that pressure and needing to pee is just terrible. You need to get the infection cleared before you do anything. I'd keep the crate small and put some absorbent towels down. I wouldn't change things because of the infection. Keep him in the same routine. Once the antibiotics are complete get a urine sample and have it checked 48 hours after the last antibiotic. It will get better. Don't be discouraged, he can't be classified as difficult to train as he has been sick since you've had him. I use a bell on my door too so he can let me know when he needs to go potty. My Bentley was also peeing in his kennel too. It didn't last long but boy was it frustrating!!! Also I'd avoid puppy kindergarten until he has had all his shots. Good luck it is worth it in the end. They are the best breed ever!!!! |
| Shannon, We continued crate training Izzie while she had her reoccuring uti's. I would get up every few hours during the night to let her out...pushing the time back by 10-15 minutes per week. She stayed in the crate while we were at work and was let out once in the middle of the day. When we were home she was mostly gated into our laundry room. Right off the kitchen with vinyl floors...easy to clean. We literally hung out in he kitchen and laundry room for a few months The open space in the laundry room is roughly the size of a washer and dryer...when she was really little we used a little crate to take up space in there. Here was our "routine":Get up in the morning or get home from work - Izzie out to pee/poop Izzie could play for a couple minutes in the living room Izzie gets put in laundry room - we hang out in with her or just outside the laundry room - she had toys in there too food for breakfast/dinner and water available in there all the time We would roughly repeat this schedule at least once an hour....outside....living room play....back in laundry room When she got a bit bigger and more housetrained we were able to expand her available space by 1/3 using gates. Eventually she got run of the entire kitchen and we still hung out in there a lot. It is wood floors, but still easier to clean than carpet. We got her at the beginning of July...by the middle/end of August I think she was "mostly" trained. She still had uti issues, but you could tell that when she was peeing inside she knew that she wasn't supposed to, but couldn't help it She was very confused towards the beginning of September when we painted the kitchen and she was gated out of it since that was "her space" for the couple months prior. |
| I hope there's a solution that works for you since the above posters gave some great suggestions. Hopefully it was all uti related! ...but I wanted to tell you that my Yuki was the same way. I did EVERYTHING (new floors, new house even, crate training, not going inside until she peed, you NAME it) ...tested EVERYTHING and kept getting told it was this or that. Well, it wasn't. she just was my first "worst ever potty trainer." I know that's nto what you want to hear but she went from going every 2 hrs for almost a year to at that 1 yr mark and us seriously wanting to give up (said it 1000000 times), she suddenly just started to get it and hold it for long periods WITHOUT accidents. Now before she turned 1, she did start holding it for 4 hrs and even longer than that but no matter what we did ...the second she got out of the crate, she would pee in front of us (and i'm not referring to excitable pee). So again, hopefully the above advice works for you, but I wanted to let you know that I UNDERSTAND how frustrating it is... ...and sometimes you just have to hold your breath, keep training, and pray. She just didn't get it faster than any other dog I had. Same went w/training. |
Joahaeyo wrote: So again, hopefully the above advice works for you, but I wanted to let you know that I UNDERSTAND how frustrating it is.... I just wanted to second this!! What you describe is the same battle we faced with our second OES (Saxon). The first one (Inca) was an angel and was housetrained in no time, so I thought there was something seriously wrong with Saxon when he pee'd SO frequently, and also gave us no warning. He also had no problem just laying in it either  - boys Sounds like you are doing all of the right things and have lots of great advice already - hang in there, it does get better!! |
| We went thru the same thing with Butchy. I was really feeling like a failure before he got it. He'd go out after eating, sleeping, playing whatever and turn around and pee again. It finally started getting better but he didn't really get it until he was over a year old. We'd had 2 previous oes and while they took a few months, they were nothing like this one. The one frustrating thing about him was that he'd go to bed at 9:00 and I usually didn't get him up until 7:00, never a mess in his crate so we knew he could do it. I guess like kids, they are all different. |
Ditto with Chauncey.....he had no problem with peeing in his crate as a puppy and laying in it until he was almost 6 mo old. We tried everything. He has never had an UTI but it was just a case of maturation for him. I retired early and we got Chaunce shortly after so I had plenty of time and could easily adjust my schedule to accomidate a new puppy. We tried everything. When he reached about 6 mos he changed in several ways. Potty training seemed to click, I looked a little less like an abused wife ( as mentioned by a doctor friend of ours ) as the nipping and pawing was just a bit less. It was also about this time that we started the coat changes and the dreaded mat's  Chauncey is almost 6 now and his favorite activity is napping. I never thought I say that I missed those puppy days but I do. Enjoy every minute you have with Hudson and know it will get better. The UTI has affected his ability to control or hold it until you, or even Hudson, realize it's time. Get the infection cured first and start from scratch. Best to both of you.......Kathy & Chauncey |
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