Gigi has arthritis and hip dysplasia right hip!
For now he put her on Remadyl (spelling) and somewhat limiting her activities for two weeks. We will see how she does. Also will try water therapy. Surgery will depend on on her quality of life. I will do all I can to keep her out of pain. There are days she is great and others she has pain. Poor girl - she already has had bilateral shoulder surgery! At that time (5 months old) it was discovered that she had HP but they wanted to wait and see until her bones was fully grown. Needless to say, we are very upset! My poor girl! |
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Poor Gigi! Water therapy is an excellent idea! Make sure your therapist measures the thighs before you start so you can monitor the progress of muscle development. I was amazed at what it did for Oliver! Building the muscle and keeping it strong also improves any chances for a THO later in life; much less invasive and less expensive than a THR. (I'm eager to hear more about Frankie's stem cell progress though!) to you and Gigi, I know it is hard on Gigi physically, but emotionally hard on you. |
| Poor baby she has been through a lot, just want to send you and gigi hugs Do the water therapy will help her a lot and keep her muscles toned and less stress on her joints and when the pain settles down and you can start doing a bit more with her, lead walking but on soft surfaces to lessen impact on her joints even short supervised free runs on grass or the beach. Also are you giving her supplements as well ? If not then start that too to help the degeneration. Rimadyl is only a short term thing to help at the moment, long term you want to get her off it. I can understand your stress and upset at the moment too , you have been through a lot with your sweetie and she has too |
| dang will call you tomorrow |
| Thanks! Gigi is on supplements -- Dasuquin with MSM. The vet also recommended a different diet. He is an ortho surgeon and is very conservative. He wants conservative treatment for as long as possible. I just don't want Gigi to have pain. The rimadyl scares me. Vet wants to have her take them for a short period. Suzi do you believe this is happening to poor Gigi! Will talk! Activities will be limited. Poor girl, she loves her walks and playing soccer in our yard. \ I will take very good care of her! She is my love! |
I'm sorry to hear about Gigi's diagnosis.  I'm sure it's already been said but keep her at a good lean weight and it's usually best for dogs with joint issues to avoid activities with fast starts/stops/direction changes because they can be tough on the joints. Did the ortho vet say how severe her hip dysplasia is? Here's a good article that includes supplements, exercise, etc.- http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 84&aid=444 I know how distressing this diagnosis is... all the unknowns because it can affect dogs differently. Hoping her condition can be well managed without the need for surgery. |
| Oh, milk thistle! I think it's milk thistle anyway...I gave that to Oliver when he was on his pain meds. It's supposed to help off-set the liver damage. |
jcc9797 wrote: Oh, milk thistle! I think it's milk thistle anyway...I gave that to Oliver when he was on his pain meds. It's supposed to help off-set the liver damage. Yes, it does, good idea! We have had a few dogs on Rimadyl for pain and never had any side effects  I think it is typically a sudden onset not over a long period but, I coudl be wrong! |
| Also along the same lines as the Milk Thistle... I'm giving Panda Denosyl... not saying it's "the" thing to do... it's just what I've been for the past few months anyway.  Denosyl is a supplement that supports the liver but may also provide some pain relief...Hip Dysplasia Article- Quote: S-Adenosyl-L-methionine (SAMe, Denosyl SD4): A recent product, Denosyl SD4, has been advocated for the management of osteoarthritis in people. The efficacy of this product for the management of osteoarthritis in animals has not been fully determined; however it is being used as a treatment for liver disease in dogs and cats. It has both anti-inflammatory and pain relieving properties. Source: http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 84&aid=444 Info on Denosyl & Liver Support- Quote: * For support of healthy liver function in dogs and cats * Recommended to help keep healthy levels of liver gluthathione, a potent antioxidant nutrient * Provides additional liver support to pets taking certain prescription arthritis medications long term Veterinary Recommended Liver Support Brand Supports healthy levels of glutathione, a powerful antioxidant and the liver's first line of defense. Use in dogs and cats to help support and maintain healthy liver function. Ideal for aging pets and for providing additional liver support to pets taking NSAIDs for arthritis management. Contains S-Adenosylmethionine, which is recommended to increase levels of liver glutathione in dogs and cats. Glutathione is a potent antioxidant in support of liver health. Source: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=10897 |
| I'm so sorry to hear about Gigi. to both of you. |
| I'm sorry you got the confirmation that Gigi's HD has progressed. to you all. |
| Poor Gigi |
| Thanks everyone! We will take great care of her! Will ask for advice at times. She has great doctors! I love her so much it hurts me when she hurts. She is a great girl! |
| The 2 hardest things about breeding is letting the puppies go to their new homes and finding the right homes are just as hard. When you do all the right testing, just like anything in life, nothing is perfect and 100%.When the new puppy buyers do not feed the correct food and then over supplement, along with inappropriate play, while a puppy is going through the growth stages can harm their joints and bones.When you have people who want to harm you and try to bully you into paying all of their medical bills can be stressful, to say the least.Not telling the whole truths through chat lists,FB, and any other media outlets can play on peoples sympathies.Without even seeing a puppies records I made a generous offer but greediness can get the best of some people.My mentor advised me to write this in my defense and said well you gave a generous offer and Carol Lichwala wanted alot more and is trying to harm me over greed.The one thing I fault myself about is she bought a puppy about 4 years ago from me and because she and her husband could not come to an agreement on sharing the care of him he was rehomed.I let my heart instead of my better judgement lead me into the decision to let Carol Lichwala buy another puppy.Now I regret it and have learned a BIG lesson from this mistake.This is my story and I am sticking to it. |
| So sad. It's a good thing Gigi is here with us. She could have been with a family who cannot afford the over $5000 spent so far in medical bills with much more to go with therapy and future surgery. Robin please tell the story of the Gigi's litter. Hemophelia. You sold us a hemopheliac puppy for $1000 and told us he did not hemophelia. Within a few days I had to take him to the vet ($300). You picked him up from my home. Still denying he had it. It broke our hearts. The food we feed Gigi is the food you recommended. Supplements -- Dasuquin was recommended by specialists. Gigi's sire's hips were not tested until after Gigi's problems was discovered. I have provided you records from the vets and specialists when Gigi was a pup. I will gladly provide the new records. All records state Gigi's problems are hereditary and NOT caused by her playing. This are vets with many years of education and experience. There was no generous offer. ha oh yes another pup! no thanks. We have tried to communicate with you after a year and half not bringing it up because you had so many problems. When we tried to work with you, we received insulting emails. Everyone knows the Murphy story. I know you are just trying to make me look like a bad OES mom. It will not work. People know. You have told me you gave up a dog for a similar reason. Of the $5000 spent on medical before the recent test, we offered instead of getting another puppy, for Robin to send $1200. she said no and for us to send the dog back and she would sell it and send me money from the sale minus her costs of boarding. I do have all the emails. We have been patient and polite in communications. I stopped answering your calls because you were always yelling. Since you posted, sorry I had to respond. I will talk to you on telephone if you remain calm. I don't think this is appropriate here. I wanted to post of Gigi's health here. That's all. |
| I do ask AGAIN nicely that MY DOG stay out of this...... This has NOTHING to do with Murphy!!!!!!!!!! I don't think anybody needs to mention my boy again in a negative manner! I do not get my "Mean Streak" until somebody continually insults my dogs, me or my family!!!!!!!! |
| Everyone knows the Murphy story. I know you are just trying to make me look like a bad OES mom. which Murphys story do you speak of ....... I have heard 3 so far, 1 had to do with aggression. and I will testify to any judge he is in no way aggressive are there issues ? yes ,,, and this comes from taking a dog from multiple ( stupid) owners who do not do research and do things with dogs that never should have been done! If My!! and I specify MY!!!!! Murphy was aggressive towards anyone the person was at fault! I put my hands in his food bowl, I take things from him without asking.... I pick his big ole butt up! Murphy is a large active Male who needed an alpha. After over 40 rescues passing through our doors..... I am proud to say that Murphy and I are getting ready to start Agility.... He loves dogs and everyone he meets. would anyone like to challenge my Murphys story? |
| Carol let's start with you giving Murphy up, the first sheepdog out of 3 you bought from me. I guess if my dogs are so horrible...why would you come back for more? You asked me to rehome Murphy on 3 seperate occasions,on the 3rd request you did follow through with it. You told me that your husband would not help with Murphy nor do the homework the trainer left for him and Murphy, along with your backaches and pains.Your friend even put Murphy up on Petfinder behind your back along with rescue.Rescue contacted me.You were so proud of bringing Murphy all the way to agility at 9 months of age.You and your husband even seperated over this for a little while.Did you not go and get I believe a Golden Retreiver after you gave Murphy up and lo and behold that dog was returned and you bragged to me that you used this infamous Florida Lemom Law that you shoved down my throat along with remember I use to be a paralegal.I offered you a replacement puppy without even setting my eyes on vet records and still have not seen official pet records.However when you kept coming at me with this Florida Lemon Law and the paralegal,I asked show breeders what would you do.Guess what I was told, you give the dog back and then you get your money back not upwards of 5,ooo.00 and that is what is in a CONTRACT.Little Booboo...your vet was sent records from Cornell U and you still wanted this puppy,because he was Gigi's littermate.Unfortunately, I did bring him to you, while vacationing at Disney and he did come back with me because you realized like I already knew he could not handle all of the rough housing,he had hemophilia and you knew this! I did give you your money back.We were friends I thought but I guess I was wrong and I did not want this on a public forum but you have pushed me and drug me through the mud enough and I am here to defend myself and my dogs along with the advice I received from long time show breeders.This is about money with you always has been and still is. |
| Oh problems thanks for bringing that up...I was trying my hardest to take care of my Mother with stage 4 ovarian cancer along with learning all about hemophilia and you asking me every 2 months to find Murphy another home because of your marital PROBLEMS. So yes Carol I do not know of anyone that does not have some sort of problems,do you? Call you not gonna happen unless you want to give me back Gigi and then that would be all business. Sorry. |
| It is all about business for you. Robin you have not even asked how Gigi is doing or what are the doctor's plans. This is about Gigi. Read my original post on this thread. Money is not the issue, never has been. You have been provided all records. Again, Robin this is not the appropriate place. AS for the hemopheliac pup, would I spend $1,000 on a pup that had this. Robin you assured me he did not. |
| Pardon me if I am out of line but, as I stated I am very defensive over my kids... I do not like Murph2 being addressed as aggressive, he is MY DOG now Well, more Marty's dog  He sits every day at the fence and waits for Daddy to come home from work! (AC season sucks  )I still can't figure out why Murph was surrendered but, one may never know!  I heard he was aggressive and that was news to me, after the fact! Yep, he is a resource guarder and he is doing wonderful with us.... I was NEVER told he was aggressive and he is not..... I should share this little note from his first home Carol Lichwala March 4, 2010 at 4:54pm Report Murphy is good boy just needs a strong alpha leader. he will listen to commands well. I am glad to hear he is doing well. So happy you love him too! Murphy was around my shih tzu and sheltie and never was a problem. although he did herd them. ha! thank you for the update. This is another reason I do not want my boy dragged into all of this... Once you sleep all over a sheepie.....yadda yadda never mind |
| Kathy, thanks for asking, Gigi is doing ok for now. thank you for all the concern for my Gigi. |
| yo guys the bottom line is poor gigi !!! |
| I see someone wrote in this thread sorry the HD has progressed. Progressed,at some point through all of this, Gigi was cleared...no HD,but will recheck as she gets a little older. I was also told Gigi is amazing at agility,can barely keep up with her speed over obstacles,trainer said she has a natural gift for it. Me, personally, if I even had a small doubt,agility would of been put on hold, till I get the all clear. The top breeder with the No.1 OES in the U.S. does not believe in agility, till the dog is fully grown. She and I,AGAIN, discussed all of this yesterday evening after she was bothered with something she had nothing to do with.Glad Carol called her though or email,cannot remember which one.I guess me brain is getting older,doesn't really matter how Carol contacted her.I am just happy she did, so that she and I could discuss this matter, AGAIN. |
gumbo41 wrote: The top breeder with the No.1 OES in the U.S. does not believe in agility, till the dog is fully grown. Does she have the #1 agility OES in the country? No. Hm.  A lot of pure conformation breeders also believe in maintaining dogs that are essentially unfit and overweight by performance standards. Not picking on anyone in particular. Bottom line, however, is that you don't ask a non-performance person about something she doesn't do My own co-breeder has all kinds of superstitions related to activities she knows little to nothing about. I just smile and nod and limit my questions to other areas where she is very knowledgable. You don't have to wait to train a dog till it is full grown IF you do so intelligently and age appropriately. If you don't, you can harm the dog. When it comes to things like CHD and OCD, there is a hereditary component. We know that. I don't know much about OCD though I suspect basic structure (breeder impacted issue) coupled with growth patterns (owner impacted issue) of dog may be as much of an issue as anything else. CHD seems to me to be more clear cut: it can be exacerbated an by how a dog is fed, acitivities of dog, age dog is desexed, etc. What we don't know is the exact proportion of genetics vrs environment in the expression of CHD, but we do know there needs to be a predisposition. If it was just the issue of the CHD I think I'd want to see a specialist's evaluation of x-rays (orthopedic vet or OFA, for instance) But in this case you also have the OCD surgery as a puppy. Now - I'm not the #1 show OES breeder in the country. Shoot, I'm not even the #1 agility OES breeder in the country. But this is my proposal, FWIW; 1) agree there is some joint (no pun intended - sigh) responsibilty here. 2) Robin, give her back what she paid for the dog and spent on the puppy when you can so she can put the $$$ towards more surgeries, rehab, whatever, and be grateful she loves the dog enough to want to put all this time, money and effort into making her comfortable. Because some people would have just put her down. If you took her back you would need to be doing this yourself. Much better she stays where she is. It's not about what is and isn't legally required, or even who did or didn't do what at this point. It's about what's right for the dog. 3) Now, as for agility - though there may be some radiographically dysplastic dogs who do agility, if a dog is sympomatic, i.e. keeps coming up lame, time to retire and find a sport more her speed. Do it quietly and come back and wow us later with your mutual ability to work things out for Gigi's sake. Must still be on that glass is half full kick, but I have faith in both of you. Kristine |
| kristine you could have not said it better!! |
| ^^^ Well said.... |
oesmom2 wrote: Kathy, thanks for asking, Gigi is doing ok for now. thank you for all the concern for my Gigi. This is not the only thread about Gigi you know I did post about her on your rant on FB.... I asked you not mention Murphy again... Didn't you send an email or two talking negatively about him yesterday? |
| I Agree 100% This is the kind of issues that seperates the excellent breeders from the NOT SO GREAT.... Robin has a chance to show all that she is a great breeder and she stands behind her pups completley...good or bad... Carol has more than one OES.... but only has issues with one.... so its hard to imagine its something she is doing... Food or Play... and I believe her second dog is younger than her first...so too much play would have shown up with him. What is best for the Breeder or Owner is the small picture.... The big pictures is what is best for GiGi... its so clear Carol loves this dog with all her heart.....That is the most any breeder could ever want for the babies they bring into this world. It is very clear from all the talk out there.... and there is a whole lot of it... the things that went on with this breeding was a nightmare for a lot of people.. What happened with the male that was picked up from Carol ? Lawyers having to send letters to Robin telling her never to contact other owners .... because of the yelling and screaming ? Auctions in MO. ..Was this breeding repeated ??? Robin... not sure if this is a can of worms you want to open.... Seems like you would want to make things the best you can for Carol and end this on a positive note rather than let lots of secrets out of the closet. You still have a chance to come out of this a hero... and maybe even impress that #1 Breeder you recently purchased a pup from. |
| ^^^^^^^Sheepdog Lover Are you not Bogey's Breeder? |
| Before Sheepdoglover posted, I was writing my last reply to this thread. Bear with me, while I try to make it as short as possible. First, thank you, Kristine for responding, without judgement. When I first learned of Gigi's OCD diagnosis, I offered a puppy from a future breeding, from Bella,without even asking for her vet reports/x-rays. We discussed this breeding and I thought Carol was thrilled, for she told me to put her 1st on the list for a puppy, even before the OCD diagnosis. Months went by and out of the blue Carol changed her mind and wanted money,for the OCD surgery. This is when I started researching what should I do.All the same responses came back as she give you the dog back and then you return her the purchase price,along with everyone's opinions on OCD and HD.Deep down I would of never have taken Gigi from a home she had come to love and you could clearly see she was loved in return. I had to learn about this Fl lemon law also and it is for dealers and I did not fall into that category. Yesterday after seeing all of this on another public venue with names attached and links added along with an email to Lambluv,I again, asked what to do?This was not about Gigi, but as some would nicely call it, a witch hunt. I was told to defend myself. Never meant for this to be on a public forum.Hey, but maybe somebody can learn something from it,who knows. I know I learned a lot, on many different levels. What to do,give the money to the rescue, who has been taking care of Murphy or back to Carol. Some rescues are funded and some are not,it is their choice. Thank you Kathy and Marty for bringing out the best in him, with what he needed all along. Murphy is no longer in rescue, but is now called, our dog,was music to my ears! So Carol, the ball is in your court, you or rescue, with the understanding,when I have this extra money. I do apologize, if I hurt you in any way, shape or form,was never my intent.I hope you feel the same way. I have had enough of horrific learning experiences within breeding and I hope from here on out, all of the experiences will be positive ones. Lastly,my hope is that all breeders keep learning and please share knowledge, so that this breed can live on. |
Quote: When the new puppy buyers do not feed the correct food and then over supplement, along with inappropriate play, while a puppy is going through the growth stages can harm their joints and bones Just for the record, barring a serious injury, an owner could not cause HD in their dog. Hip dysplasia is genetic. No food, supplement or play would change that original diagnosis. Environmental factors may help or, in other ways, exacerbate it but nothing would change the fact that dog had HD in the first place. All cases have a polygenic appearance first and environmental factors can affect it from there. |
| Carol donated $200 to kathy for robin's dogs.it is katjy's dog now. Kathy wrote to carol on db telling her it was not enough. Carol always said kathy. Does good work |
an oes friend wrote: Carol donated $200 to kathy for robin's dogs.it is katjy's dog now. Kathy wrote to carol on db telling her it was not enough. Carol always said kathy. Does good work You really need to change your style of typing to post " "anonymously"! I did NOT say it was not enough, you are right he is my dog now and I have asked over and over again for this crap about him to stop!!!!!! I did say I was dissappointed that I was lied to about him being microchipped. I AGAIN went over his whole body last night to make sure. Well, actaully now he is microchipped, I just did it! BTW.....when a dog is surrendered to rescue a lot of times that is it! No updates, no pictures, no contact! Carol has been welcome to come and visit her former dog anytime so, lets not try to make me out to be a bad guy! If you, "an oes friend" would like a copy of the conversation from Facebook, I assume you meant! I copied it before Carol defriended me...ouch that hurt! As far as what this topic is actaully about, I do wish the best for Gigi! I have stated that before! I didn't post here as I do not think it is needed to post well wishes on every site about the same thing! If you look back through I did mention my thoughts on Rimadyl and Liver issues  |
| Just to inform all who commented on my fb wall. We were all hacked. Facebook security called me. . A false account was set up and then contacted me asking about gigi's breeder. This was a hacker that set up phishing which deleted posts and friends. Attacked all who commented. Fb knows who set this up and will take care of that person |
oesmom2 wrote: Just to inform all who commented on my fb wall. We were all hacked. Facebook security called me. . A false account was set up and then contacted me asking about gigi's breeder. This was a hacker that set up phishing which deleted posts and friends. Attacked all who commented. Fb knows who set this up and will take care of that person I wasn't hacked, I explained I deleted what I posted since it was all irrelevent! You as well are welcome to a copy of that post as I saved it! Of course being a computer moron I am not even sure what phishing is so, maybe that happened |
| No kathy the hacker is not you. Robin. I will pm you shortly |
| Gigi"s medical bills now total,including this week's specialists and xrays are.approx $5700 . Will get an exact amout add. Future medical including meds,therapy and surgery will top $10,000 send us the $1000 and we will donate it to an oes rescue of OUR choice and provide verification of same to you. Hope this is agreeable to you. I will not pm you now. |
| Will discuss the choice further when the time comes. Kathy says, she wants no part of it. So another rescue such as Colorado,one that really needs it. Would you like to say anything else,Carol? |
| Do you agree to send us a check for $1000 and we will donate $1000 to an OES rescue of OUR choice? yes or no? |
| Carol, Your choice, with the understanding, when I can. |
| Ok you agree to send us a check for $1000 and we then after receipt of the check we will donate $1000 to an OES rescue of our choice. When you have the money, please email for the address if you do not have it. |
| Kathy I will send you the records that I paid for murph to be microchipped. I did not check that it was actually done. I assumed it was done. I told you the name of the vet and location. Yyou can call them. I will send you proof. Enough attacking me. I did not give him up to rescue! There were a lot of not so true statements made here. I stayed quiet. My concern is for Gigi. |
| Carol, Unless something has changed, I am good. |
| Nothing has changed. For Kathy. -bogey's breeder knows nothing about this and is not on the forum. I would not involve her |
| I need Cliff Notes and a scorecard for this... |
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me thinks it's over. shhhhhh  |
| I sure hope so! But you never know.... |
| Not to start another round or anything BUT, I wanted to apologize to Carol for the fact of looking again through Murph's records he is supposed to be microchipped! I don't know if it traveled or what happened but, I was wrong on that. The chip does not show up when I scan him. Good reminder also to always have your dogs checked at each vet visit! I wasn't going to post again but, I do admit when I am wrong and I was. I am sorry for that... |
| Kathy - when I had my youngests' OFA cardiacs done this spring they scanned them to confirm dogs were who I said they were and had a heck of time finding the chip on all three of them. What are the odds??? I think those little suckers travel more often than we think and most of us just don't know it because we rarely need to rescan them later. In their cases they were all further back than the person doing the scanning expected. Dawn said a long time ago that Chewie's had migrated too. I wonder if it makes a difference at what age they are chipped? My entire litter was done at 7 weeks old I think it was. They're five now, but when I had the same three dogs OFA hips done at age three Amy scanned them and I can't remember her having a problem. Then again, she's the one who chipped them in the first place. Who knows? Kristine |
| I have never had a problem with chips migrating although I know it can happen! Sometimes you just don't use your brain(Me) If Murph ever has to be sedated for anything I may do an xray just out of curiousity to see where that chip is!! He no doubt has one some where in there...Carol was right she did pay for it I apologize again for venting publicly on that |
| Sometimes they 'forget' to put them in........... and tell you they have. I've had that happen to 3 different friends. One reason i won't leave my dog or let my dog out of the exam room without me. Vet has to do what they do in front of me. (Unless it is a vet that i've known a long long time.). Sometimes one Tech thinks the other one put it in. paperwork is all set with micorchip tab numbers etc. but it just never get's 'put in'. |
Oh yes the little buggers can move  We adopted a rescue toy poodle last December. I know the chip was in the right place then my vet checked it. I found it had migrated down almost under his front leg last month We fostered a lab two years ago. When they went to check the chip before he was adopted it had moved up almost between his ears. Both dogs had been chipped by different vets. |
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