Very worried about aggression biting
We brought home a beautiful 8 week old female puppy last week, and in the course of the past few days, we have been unable to break a developing pattern of aggression biting. We have tried redirection, the use of a can with coins in it, isolation in her crate until she calms down and the pattern persists. She starts by biting our pants, and when we attempt to disengage her from the fabric, with our hands, she growls and snaps at us. If we grab her collar and try to move her away, she makes a screaming noise as if she is being tortured. I have turned her on her back and held her snout (not at the same time) in an attempt to get her to submit. She becomes absolutely hysterical but after a few minutes will eventually settle down. She will invariably start out remorseful after a time out, but the aggression eventually returns, and she will challenge us during her walks or when given access to our back yard on unstructured periods, playing ball or just sniffing around. We contacted the breeder, and he indicated that the puppies were removed from the parents, as a means of minimizing separation anxiety, approximately two weeks before we brought her home. We were not happy to learn this, as everything we have read said that the involvement of the parents is a key factor in socialization. This is our third OES, and we have never had a situation like this. This puppy is very intelligent, but fiercely independent and self-confident. Our previous dogs were gentle and playful, sweet, somewhat clingy but well-socialized. We do not remember having to deal with anything more than the usual puppy biting issues, which were addressed with redirection and correction. Any ideas on how to address this issue? Is her behavour something which we can expect to be feature of her personality. We are concerned in that small children will be around her and we do not, under any circumstances, want to have a tragedy. |
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| Wow. I was going to suggest you were mistaking puppy mouthiness with aggression - it's a RARE dog who exhibits true aggression at that age, rarer still in this breed, but they can be mouthy and pushy as heck. However, since you've had OES puppies before and have something to compare to...I'm still finding it hard to imagine, though I had one puppy class instructor at K-9 tell me she had a 12 week old in her class she thought was potentially dangerous. I think they got her straightened out, though. Fortunately you're in prime OES country. There are quite a few experienced breeders in the greater Milwaukee area. I'll PM you my vet's info. She's in Jackson and an OES breeder. She's kind of young but don't let that fool you. Her mom breeds OES as well and Amy basically grew up with the breed. I don't know what else to tell you, not having seen the puppy in action.  Kristine |
| bite inhibition! bite inhibition! http://www.dogstardaily.com has the info about bite inhibition + you can download the before and after books - the before book is free. dr. ian dunbar is the BEST puppy person, his advice is wonderful |
Ive never heard of separating a pup from their mother early to "prevent separation anxiety"   What a bizarre thing for the breeder to have done! |
| So let me get this straight you have used 3 different methods of training in a week that you have had a puppy? You are using way too many methods to train a puppy after only having it for a week. It sounds like she is engaging in harder play when you try to stop her from playing tug o war with your pants. Try one method for more than a week and see if it works. Try when she bites you, stick a toy in her mouth and walk away. It says I won't play with you when you bite but this is what you can bite and play with. Honestly if you were dealing with a truly agressive dog/puppy, you wouldnt get a yelp from grabbing a dog by its collar, you would have a gash in your hand. Same with the "coin in a jar" thing. Keep doing that with your puppy and you will create a very fearful adult. |
ravenmoonart wrote: Ive never heard of separating a pup from their mother early to "prevent separation anxiety" What a bizarre thing for the breeder to have done!No, it makes no sense. There's something else going on. Kristine |
| This behavior sounds VERY MUCH like what we experienced with Winnie shortly after we got her. It took a lot of patience, a lot of training, a LOT of being "in charge" to get her turned around. We followed a strict schedule every day - training, feeding, walking, napping, playing; repeat. LOTS of naps cause we found she bit more when she was tired. LOTS of training, too. And things like soft toys to stuff in her mouth when she was being bitey and mouthy. And when she was old enough, we took her to doggy day care 2 or 3 times a week. That also wore her out, got her socialized with other dogs, and she would come home one exhausted puppy. A tired puppy is a good puppy.  Eventually, she grew out of it and now is a wondeful, loving companion. But, boy, she still sometimes likes to pretend that she is the dominant one in the house.  Do a search on this OES site and you will find a LOT of really, really good advice on dealing with these little assertive and dominant pups. Keep us posted! |
| Was this dog from a reputable breeder? I only ask because it does seem very odd to remove the pups early and it also makes me wonder about the temperament of the parents. Do you know any of their history? I know you know this already, but every dog is different, too. My first OES was a bit of a nipper but he easily grew out of it. My second one was the worst biter ever and nothing seemed to slow him down. It took months and months of consistent redirection and screaming when he bit before it clicked with him. For months, I'd be sitting on the couch, working on my laptop and he'd come up and bite me right between the bones of my hands. One time he got me in the face as I was watching tv and not really paying attention to him. Like your dog, he was pretty unaffected by any discipline. He'd get all fussy and snarly sometimes so we'd do our best to ignore him when he got that way, though I realize it's hard to ignore a behavior that is causing you pain! I never considered it "aggression," more wild, pushy puppy crap but, honestly, I can understand it feeling the other way, too. I found it best to use two methods that seemed to work the best and continuously repeat those every time. I liked redirection by replacing an appropriate thing in his mouth, like a toy, but at the same time, I didn't always have something to jam in his mouth so I perfected the scream/yelp (unfortunately, I didn't really even have to fake it). It took quite awhile but he finally calmed down and the biting stopped but it felt like forever. The moral of the story here is, that jerk of a puppy turned into a really nice, well-behaved dog that went on to finish his championship before he was a year old. He did really well in classes and I think it helped him focus more and respond better to me. The only remnants of that pushy behavior is his need for attention. When he doesn't get it, he makes noise-- loud whimpering, sometimes barking. I don't love that either but it's not all the time and I never bleed from that either. Good luck and just stay consistent and, like you said, until she is calming down, watch her like a hawk around kids to prevent a tragedy. It may take awhile, but I really think it will improve. Good luck! |
| You say that you've had this pup for just a week. It takes a little bit of time for pups to "learn" the rules. Remember she's just a baby and does not know how to behave yet. Ok, now I said the normal things. Let me tell you about Simon. He's now five but as a pup I was worried I got the devil in dog clothing. Before I knew better, I too turned him on his back...this "pup" turned into cujo. He was snarling and I believe if he could he would have taken my face off. He challenged me at every turn(still does). It took a lot of time and patience and now I have a mostly good dog. He just needed to learn he's not the boss. We still have our trials and tribulations and training is still part of our ongoing process but I think that is the way with this breed...head strong and stubborn. P.S. I live in Tosa, pm me if you want to get together for a playdate. |
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