Straight line Runner
Most dogs will listen or watch their person to look where to go next. I don't think that Simon even looks at me. I release him and he's off like a shot and I'm calling out to him where to go, if we need to turn so he doesn't take the next jump, tunnel, dogwalk, or A-frame, we have to do it over and over so he doesn't take the next in his line of vision. So say there's the tunnel with two jumps but I only want him to go over one jump and turn to do something else. I take a big leadout and run like a crazy person calling his name and trying to block him from taking the jump...okay...lets try it again...and again, and finally he hears me calling him..."oh you didn't want me to do the second jump?"  I think I need a new hobby. |
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We have just been learning about obstacle vs handler focused dogs in class and how you need a good balance of the two.  Not sure if you were wanting some suggests or just an opportunity to vent and head butt the wall.  But for what its worth my instructor would tell you to go back to flat work foundation stuff and forget the obstacles for a while. Have you tried lots of circle running while handing out treats at obscenely frequent intervals? That's what convinced Tiggy to spend time looking at me instead of every one/thing/dog else! We have mostly worked on it at home so she is offlead. It's easier for me as I'm not managing a lead, a clicker and the treats and there were fewer distractions for Miss 'what am I missing?' But I have noticed a huge improvement in Tiggy's focus on me in class after only 6 weeks work. I just do 5 minutes here and there otherwise I get dizzy and Tiggy gets bored. Haven't managed every day but some days do 2 or 3 sessions. All the best and don't give up. |
Simon's Mom wrote: Most dogs will listen or watch their person to look where to go next. I don't think that Simon even looks at me. I release him and he's off like a shot and I'm calling out to him where to go <snip> So say there's the tunnel with two jumps but I only want him to go over one jump and turn to do something else. I take a big leadout and run like a crazy person calling his name and trying to block him from taking the jump...okay...lets try it again...and again, and finally he hears me calling him..."oh you didn't want me to do the second jump?" Actually, what you describe speaks volumes: 1) he's a herding breed - movement is everything. You can yak/scram/cry/nag/throw temper tantrums even etc etc till you're literally blue in the face, but HE is listening to your body language and doing exactly what you tell him. (been there, done that) You have to, pardon me, shut up and speak his language  2) blocking an OES????????????????? OK, not only is it foolhardy, but you are going up against PROS. You don't block them, they block YOU When you're running down a line of obstacles to try to beat him to wherever so you can block him what your body is actually screaming to him is RUN FASTER. IN A STRAIGHT LINE> To get him to turn you have to actually 1) indicate the upcoming turn BEFORE he commits to the obstacle in front of the one you're turning to (Judi C and I were actually discussing that this weekend) and 2) often - depends on the course, but in a straight line situation as you describe DECELERATE noticably. You think he's looking to grab obstacles. OK, some times, maybe. But what he is really doing is running to be with you and since you're running to be in front of him, but not where you want him to go, he's running to you (and reading it as that being your planned line of travel) and voila! he misses the turning cue. Well, mainly because there is none. Good news is he IS following your body. So if you can condition yourself to SLOW DOWN when you want him to turn, as opposed to running faster to beat him, he will slow down and come with you. A good way to practice this is to set up 4-5 jumps, roughly equi-distance, and run up and down the line wrapping at different jumps. You accelerate to get him to move, you decelerate, he decelerates and turns towards you. It's a natural thing. Add the front cross and you can get very nice, tight, turns. This is Dawn and Chewie at the OES seminar we all attended with Sue trying it for the first time:  'Somewhere (Dawn? ) there's a picture of Sue borrowing Chewie to illustrate how to get an even tighter turn. Ring any bells? Thanks for reminding me btw. Ground outside is pretty good so I was just thinking last night that I should put some jumps up and work on this. Maybe we could meet somewhere and work on this together for a while. Sue is not impressed with my timing on the deceleration. I tend to stomp to a stop. It helps to have someone watching you, giving you feedback. Let me know. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: 'Sorry I don't have anything constructive to add, except OMG I can't wait to start agility! 2 and half more weeks! Chewie looks so awesome going over jumps!  |
| mad dog is right on with the trying to stay with you concept. Bella and I are have this issue with our rear crosses. I keep making the mistake of crossing before she has committed to the jump and she goes and slows down looking at me saying ......"now where are you going" A lot of foot work to get straight in my head and harder yet to get my feet to to it at just the right time. The same idea came up with pulling them to the correct jump. Somethings are just counter intuitive I think until someone explains it and shows me what I am doing wrong. |
| I know what I have to do....Just sometimes forget in the "heat" of the moment. Just thought I'd slam my head a few times so I would remember. Kristine, I'm hoping to get those jumps up if the weather would warm...and stay that way. |
| OK, I had a post written and the internet locked up, then deleted my nearly complete response Trying again.... We have been working in class on nonverbal cues. The last 2 weeks have been using acceleration and deceleration to cue our dogs. The stuff we did on Tuesday meshes with what you are talking about. 1st, we all ran a straight line and worked acceleration. It went : chute - tire - jump - table. The ante was upped as the dogs got treated on the table. Ran it a couple times each, cemented REALLY well in their minds....... Then, we had to switch it to : chute - tire - pull left to a panel jump in the middle - continue the arc to another jump to the left. Evil, pure evil! *and, we couldn't pull them off the straight line they already knew and had been treated for by any verbals - no names, no "turn"...nothing. This week was acceleration and deceleration, so we had to use our body language to pull them left over the new jump. Very challenging, but once we got past the frustration factor, it really was fun. Super entertaining too!   One classmate - BC Marti - was really sure that the correct run was straight back to the table. Elaine was doing a good job decelerating and turning...her body language was just screaming "turn here"...but Marti was locked on the straight run. So, they did as Mim mentioned... backed it up to sections - tire to post turn (left) and treat. Then tire to panel - post turn and treat. Then put it all together - chute - tire - panel - jump! Marti is green, just starting to compete. She just needs a bit more experience and she will be handling like a pro soon! All these skills are great to have. Our instructors believe having tools available is the best way to learn and compete. That way you can put in a variety of moves in a course, depending on situation and need. We have gotten to the point where it is starting to pay off. ...and it's a great feeling. And if me (the human) is feeling confident about a move, it reflects right to my dog and we do so much better.  PS - I don't have that picture, Kristine! And if someone got pictures of Sue w/Chewie, I never have seen them.....hint, hint.....  |
got sheep wrote: PS - I don't have that picture, Kristine! And if someone got pictures of Sue w/Chewie, I never have seen them.....hint, hint..... Well, I can't find them on my harddrive in original size. I can't remember if they came from Will or Jan, Will I'm thinking, so Sunny may have the originals, but I found the pic of Sue and Chewie in My Photos:   Oh, by the way, years ago I attended a seminar with Stuart Mah who a really neat design aimed at working on exactly what you described. If I'm able to remember it I'll try to put it on a course map and share for kicks. KB |
Mad Dog wrote: got sheep wrote: PS - I don't have that picture, Kristine! And if someone got pictures of Sue w/Chewie, I never have seen them.....hint, hint..... Well, I can't find them on my harddrive in original size. I can't remember if they came from Will or Jan, Will I'm thinking, so Sunny may have the originals, but I found the pic of Sue and Chewie in My Photos: Oh, by the way, years ago I attended a seminar with Stuart Mah who a really neat design aimed at working on exactly what you described. If I'm able to remember it I'll try to put it on a course map and share for kicks. KB Cool picture. I remember her doing it. That was back when we never had gone to classes, so I knew nothing. Like doing the pull out to a post turn. I had been doing back jumping! Remote training and a 1 day seminar only get you so far! I'll be looking for the lesson too |
got sheep wrote: I'll be looking for the lesson too Me too!! |
got sheep wrote: :headbang: OK, I had a post written and the internet locked up, then deleted my nearly complete response Trying again.... We have been working in class on nonverbal cues. The last 2 weeks have been using acceleration and deceleration to cue our dogs. The stuff we did on Tuesday meshes with what you are talking about. 1st, we all ran a straight line and worked acceleration. It went : chute - tire - jump - table. The ante was upped as the dogs got treated on the table. Ran it a couple times each, cemented REALLY well in their minds....... Then, we had to switch it to : chute - tire - pull left to a panel jump in the middle - continue the arc to another jump to the left. Evil, pure evil! *and, we couldn't pull them off the straight line they already knew and had been treated for by any verbals - no names, no "turn"...nothing. This week was acceleration and deceleration, so we had to use our body language to pull them left over the new jump. Very challenging, but once we got past the frustration factor, it really was fun. Super entertaining too! One classmate - BC Marti - was really sure that the correct run was straight back to the table. Elaine was doing a good job decelerating and turning...her body language was just screaming "turn here"...but Marti was locked on the straight run. So, they did as Mim mentioned... backed it up to sections - tire to post turn (left) and treat. Then tire to panel - post turn and treat. Then put it all together - chute - tire - panel - jump! Marti is green, just starting to compete. She just needs a bit more experience and she will be handling like a pro soon! All these skills are great to have. Our instructors believe having tools available is the best way to learn and compete. That way you can put in a variety of moves in a course, depending on situation and need. We have gotten to the point where it is starting to pay off. ...and it's a great feeling. And if me (the human) is feeling confident about a move, it reflects right to my dog and we do so much better. PS - I don't have that picture, Kristine! And if someone got pictures of Sue w/Chewie, I never have seen them.....hint, hint..... Funny you should mention this...This past class we did the same thing. The course kind of curved along ending with the chute that ran under the dogwalk. Did it two or three times and then switched to skipping the chute and going up the dogwalk. It took the third time before Simon finally did the dogwalk...and I did a happy dance. |
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