CUSTODY BATTLE OVER OES
DURING our 10 year stint together, the girlfriend and I acquired Sweet Molly Brown  . After loosing my first sheepie (Boomer), after 14 years, I wanted another and searched for about 6 months to find this breeder in the general area. We both went to pick out our dog, this slightly timid 2 year old that had some nervous issues, (skin irritation), but needed the love that we could give her. IN just a short time (6 months) she became very aclamated and of course a loving, caring family dog. We've spoiled her with regular spa treatments. a very special diet for longevity, and health and all the things a wonderful sheepdog needs.Now there is NO MORE girlfriend  , so the argument becomes the OES  .I paid for the dog and originally filled out the paperwork to have her licensed in my name......................BUT, THROUGH a little manipulation  the license actually came in Karen's name, and when we were at a festival one summer day we had Molly chipped and that just happen to end up in Karen's name.................so.......sad but true, I believe I lost another sheepie.....  Now I get VISITATION RIGHTS, that is to say I get her on weekends with curfews and some stipulations and gripes   I have to listen to, but I have her to see she gets the attention, exercise she needs and we have a couple of great days. Sunday evening she has to go back.  It is interesting to say the least........we've all heard the stories when this very similiar thing was about kids. I'm glad to say I never had to experience that, Now I find myself in my 50's with the exact same scenerio. YOUR COMMENTS ARE WELCOMED,  and any ideas  .............I'm listening..................  Believe me I've thought about exiting ......  |
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| Sorry to hear about this. For a lot of people (for instance, um, me) custody of my dog would be just as serious and important as custody of kids. Thankfully, Kim and I have no plans to split up, and we've already decided I would get full custody in any case It must be hard on your dog too, I know Mady has a hard time if either one of us is absent for more than a day. Hopefully you'll be able to keep the custody arrangement civil and ongoing. |
We've had a few custody battles with rescue dogs. One was where the ex-wife threatened to put the dog down if he wasn't removed from the home. The ex-husband couldn't keep him and called us. Eight months later he got a new home and wanted the dog back.  Sorry, we're not a long-term boarding kennel.Another was a dog that the ex-husband had "custody" of. After several months he sold the dog on Craigslist and he was too rambunctious for the family that bought him. They chose rescue over euthanization for him and he was successfully placed. Almost eight months later the ex-wife calls asking if we have a dog by his name. She had just found that her ex sold the dog and contacted the family who bought him and then called us. By then the dog was happy in a great new home. After all, she did wait over eight months to make contact and find that her ex no longer had the dog. Obviously neither of these situations compare to what you are going through. If you are patient perhaps your ex will tire of Molly or move somewhere that dogs aren't allowed and ask you to take her. Please keep in touch with Molly in case your ex decides to re-home her without your permission. It's a terrible thing you are having to go through but if Molly is being well cared for and you are allowed visitation, things could definitely be worse. Not much consolation but unfortunately it's all I can offer you now. |
| Boy, I give you credit. You're taking this much better than I would. You paid for the dog. Receipt? Cancelled check? Lawyer? But, yes, it stinks that she was licenced and chipped in ex-chippie's name. I hope you work this out to your mutual long-term satisfaction. Should the issue heaven forbid ever come up again with a new girlfriend and a new dog that is registerable with say the AKC, make sure you register the dog in your name and, if in any doubt at all, your name only. Sticky situation. It's obvious you really love your dog or why else would you subject yourself to ex-girlfriend's squawkings just to be able to spend time with the dog? Any male judge with a few ex-squawkers in his past should surely be able to appreciate that  But such an approach is risky and would probably just escalate the situation. At least now you get to spend time with her.Any chance she'll tire of the dog? That it's mostly about leverage and using her to get to you? Hope it all works out .Kristine |
| Oh how terrible. I have no advice as to how to solve your situation. Hope she tires of the dog quickly. My thoughts... I would get in writing (from ex), that you get custody of your beloved Molly Brown if your she decides not to keep the pup. The dog does not go to anyone other than you. Are you able to contact the breeder for support? Meaning will they write a letter saying you were part of the transaction/purchase even though your name is not on any papers. It is always good to have documentation, just in case. Same goes for the vet or groomer, are there any invoices /forms in your vet's files that suggests you are owner? The second thing I would be wary of, if Molly needs vet care...will your ex be running to you to pay the bill or half of the bill?? Be prepared with your answer. Wishing you well, glad you at least sometime with Sweet Molly Brown, sadly not enough time though. peg |
| Ohhh that sux. I don't know if you went through court to settle this with visitation and all. Generally, although it's starting to change a little bit, dogs are considered property. If it did go to court she would probably be seen as community property and her "value" split up. You'd be lucky to get visitation rights! Possession is 9 points of the law.... you could keep her and send a check to your ex, but you'd have the possibility of losing her completely. If you didn't go through the courts, I'd be pushing for better visitation rights. If you're mobile and free, you can always run to Canada, although Canadian "dog owner rights" aren't working out so well for one family. I don't think there's extradition for civil property issues, but I could be wrong. I'm so sorry for all you're going through. |
Ron wrote: you didn't go through the courts, I'd be pushing for better visitation rights. If you're mobile and free, you can always run to Canada, although Canadian "dog owner rights" aren't working out so well for one family. I don't think there's extradition for civil property issues, but I could be wrong. Hummmmm... who might you be refering to Ron?  Actually for the most part Canada is no problem   . It's just this P&*#%)@)) Dammed Useless A&(@!#$&($% of a province Quebec that's the problem. Although many of we Canucks consider Quebec to be a foreign country anyways, they even call their provincial legislature the "National Assembly"!! Good bloody grief, talk about big time delusions of grandeur.   That being said, my commiserations for Mike and Molly as well, but be careful if you try to change things. Rock the boat too much and you'll end up in the drink.  Justice is only for those whe can afford the most expensive lawyer slime....Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| Yeah, Carl. You can't imagine how dismayed I am about your situation. |
| Well the replys are MORE and GREATER than expected and some cautions to be careful of. Court was never thought of, why can't people just be civil, and there wouldn't be a need for civil court............??????  I'll take heed of the advice given and thank those that looked and commented.  Some day Molly and I just may disapear.........  |
| ok i had miss daytona for 13 years and met my x when she was 9 but she loved him dearly when we split 3 yrs ago i hated to give her to him but to be honest it killed me that she loved her daddy so much more them me so i stupidly gave him to her he was a good dad but missed her daily she just passed and wish i would have fought for her so keep pushing to get your baby back |
Have you considered offering to buy your ex an OES puppy (or half the price of a puppy from a comparable breeder)? That way your ex would have the comfort of an OES, Molly wouldn't be shuffled around and you would have Molly and piece of mind. |
| My heart goes out to you. Keep up the visitation and maybe ask your ex if you can get your name on the documents as a co-owner so that, heaven forbid your ex gets sick or worse, you would have legal rights to your dog. |
| Mike, I pretty much went thru the same thing you are going thru. My ex g/f and I got Brick as a pup way back in 2004 and we rescued Zeke in the spring of 2008. When we split up, I actually had both dogs. She said she couldn't have Zeke at her apartment because it was too small and there wasn't a yard for him to run in. What was funny is that I really didn't want Zeke. Zeke was her dog and her responsibility. She paid for him and her name was on all the adoption papers (of course I had to pay all the bills, though ).But OK. I'll keep Zeke. He's a good dog and he seemed to mesh well with Brick. Well, a few months later, she decides she wants Zeke. What could I do? Her name was on the adoption papers and she paid for him. Plus, I didn't want to be that guy. Ya know the type; combative, selfish, and spiteful. So she took Zeke and I kept Brick. In between the time that she told me she couldn't keep him and the time she wanted him back, I really bonded with Zeke. I started to understand him. But even then it was OK because she let me have him whenever I wanted and I'd let her have Brick whenever she wanted. So it worked out well. Then, in May of '09, I lost my job. I put my house in St. Louis up for sale & began looking for a job. I was hoping to find a job out there before I sold my house, but I sold my house first. I packed up my stuff & Brick and moved back to Syracuse. I had to say good-bye to Zeke. It was one of the saddest days of my life.  I told my ex that if there ever came a day where she couldn't take care of him anymore, that he was to come to me. I'll tell you what though, there was NO WAY she was going to keep Brick. He was my boy (even though I didn't want a dog before we got him  ).But in your case, aren't animals considered property in the eyes of the law? And if they are, I would think the person who proves they paid for the animal is the owner of said animal. But that would mean you'd have to become "that guy". Do you want to do that? It may be easier on everyone involved to just keep doing what you're doing now. |
| Such a sad situation. We had friends that actually went to court over custody of the dogs and the season football tickets! It got really really ugly and in the end no one really came out of the ordeal satisfied. Maybe what you are doing right now will work out for you or MAYBE as others have said she will get tired of the single dog life and give Sweet Molly back to you. Thoughts for you! |
| I am really so sad for you Mike and what is happening. Is it possible to re-contact the breeder you got her from and ask for a copy of the receipt saying you paid for her? Just wondering if that would have any benefit in your fight with your ex-girlfriend since all other documentation is in her name. If you can will and should help enormously, I dont know the laws over there but here it would help your siutation regardless that the dog is registered and chipped in her name, it proves you purchased her then,,,without enormous expense maybe just getting an attorneys letter with a copy of the receipt accompaning the attorneys letter, that asking for your property back or a civil suit will follow (as just a threat rather then a real civil suit for return of property) it might just scare her into return your sweetie. Sorry to put your baby as property but if taken in that context to her with a letter and a copy of the receipt proving you purchased her might go a long way and scare her enough to return her to your full time care, just a thought there. Best wishes my heart goes out to you, just not fair and I truly hope you get your princess back. |
| I am really sorry Mike. As others stated - it SUCKS! However, your current situation may be the best solution for now and your complete and reasonable cooperation with your ex-girlfriend is in yours and Molly's best interest. Taking legal action to prove ownership may not work anyway - even if you could prove you paid for Molly she could "claim" that Molly was a gift and that is why her name is on the registration papers. A lot of time and negative energy could be spent battling this out and I think some of these comments are worth noting - Mad Dog wrote: Any chance ....... it's mostly about leverage and [she is] using [Molly] to get to you? If she is using Molly to get to you, then the more you fight this the more satisfaction she is getting. However if you are cooperative the more time you will get to spend with Molly. Under the most wonderful scenario you would get to have her all to yourself forever. sheepiezone wrote: We had friends that actually went to court over custody of the dogs ........ in the end no one really came out of the ordeal satisfied. Taking legal action doesn't guarantee you will end up with Molly. At least right now you are still seeing her. Molly loves her time with you so just make the best of your time together. CamVal1 wrote: Plus, I didn't want to be that guy. Ya know the type; combative, selfish, and spiteful. [Proving ownership could] mean you'd have to become "that guy". Do you want to do that? It may be easier on everyone involved to just keep doing what you're doing now. I don't agree that wanting your dog is selfish but I do know that we never feel better when we are negative. I am a whole lot happier when I surround myself with positive energy. Plus our dogs sense all of our "moods". So if every time you have to pick up/drop off Molly the air is charged with animosity it becomes a stresser for Molly and that can't be good. I really am sorry that this happened Mike because it isn't fair or right. I am glad that for now you are still getting to spend time with Molly because it could be worse. In the meantime keep venting away here if it helps diffuse the situation.  |
| I am so sorry. I have no clue what to tell you Other than to fight it out in court but who knows the ruling.......This is so sad I just can't imagine what you are going through. |
| So sorry to hear this... How does Molly do with the situation? |
| Again I appreciate all the concern and true feeling that were expressed. It has gotten worse, so I am looking for new sheepie of my own......WHAT A BITCH, AND NOT THE ONE ON FOUR LEGS !! THANK YOU ALL............Mike |
| mike, now dat sounds like a plan, moving on is not often the 1st thing that comes to one's mind in certain situations, but usually better all da way around. in the words of al capone; oh nevermind, stifle dat thought.  may it be like christmas at your house soon.   |
| Hi, I'm so sorry this is happening and how difficult it must be as it's obvious you love your girl. I was wondering if you have dial a law in your area that gives legal advice? Or sometimes law schools have their students take on or give advice for free or minimal charges. Another thought is a mediator which is far less costly than a lawyer and could perhaps draw up a contract? A judge/mediator or ? may view you as the better dog parent based on your financial resources or living situation perhaps? Let us know what the outcome is and you have our support. Marianne |
| Hi again, You are not alone as I found this on the net: Various custody battles regarding pets. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06176/700469-51.stm For Canadians here are free vids (218) of them regarding legal issues around pets http://www.canadalawvideos.com/family-law/31.html |
| AND NOW THE REST OF THE STORY........................... After Easter Sunday and the next two weeks......Molly had some situations that caused her to have some messes in the house (at Karen's) Well it seems not living there doesn't carry any weight regarding what caused the dog to have some problems, for I was blamed. I was informed by Karen (the Wicked Witch of the East), that Molly had been eating off everyones plate on Easter Sunday (mac n cheese, scalloped pot, ham) you know the big meal stuff. Well she became "stomach" sick, and had some throwing up, plus the runs.......and with Karen at work on Monday, Tuesday, I guess Molly treated the living/dining room like an open field...............So when I picked her up on friday, I was warned that the vet had been contacted and she was put on a very lite diet for a week........I don't know if the vet ever heard what really happened. So upon Molly being returned on Sunday evening, she apparently had a couple of more problems, none of which I experienced because we were outside most of the weekend........ SOME HOW THIS BECAME MY FAULT ! Two weeks later in picking Molly up on friday I am informed that Molly had eaten a wreath of plastic flowers and her stool should be watched over the weekend to see if these flowers appeared... Come Sunday morning (3 a.m.), they began to do there work......Molly wanted out and went out at 3, 5, 8, a.m. and again at 11 a.m. Upon returning her to Karen's apparently she continued with some plumbing problems and result is I've been banned from picking up Molly Now the good news (of sorts) I've made connections for a rescue 3 yr. old sheepie out of Ohio, that has to moved do to new baby in the house. the pick-up is suppose to occur mondayevening the 20th..........will report then, but we should be the "Real" owner of another Old English Sheepdog. |
| mike good to hear from you and good luck with the rescue !!! poor molly do you still get her weekends |
| I feel sorry for Molly. It sounds like your ex is not watching her close enough and feeding her things she shouldn't have...and then you get blamed for her ignorance. |
| Oh I feel bad for Molly! Hope she is being loved. It is wonderful that you are getting another OES. Maybe when things calm down and you enjoy the new OES, the ex will become a little less vindictive. WHen we just move on and are happy, it seems to really bother the other. Time will tell. I have seen all kinds of lawsuits over dogs while working the legal field. Some pretty ugly! It is sad for all involved. Be happy that is your best offense. |
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