Very unpleasant experiences with a breeder
I learned later that the sire’s hips were not tested prior to this litter. Additionally, all but one of the male littermates passed away after docking. The breeder blamed the dr. It was learned that they had hemophelia. The one male that survived was ill. He was kept – well the adopters backed out. At about 6 months old, the breeder assured me that the male tested negative for hemophelia. She brought the male to Florida (before we had Bogey from another breeder). After two days in our home, he began to bleed from his month. We brought him to the vet and tests were run. It was determined he was hemophiliac. The breeder picked him up from our home. While here she continued to deny the results of the tests. She did not believe all the vets (hers included) and mated the bitch again “just to see.” We were so sad to see him leave. it hurt. Then she accused me of letting the dogs play too rough. They were playing as pups do. I was also blamed for causing Gigi’s OCD because she played and ran. I have spoken with the vets and was assured I did not cause Gigi’s OCD. The law in Florida is quite clear in this situation – The Pet Lemon Law – that a breeder reimburse the original purchase price of the dog and vet bills up to the original cost of the dog. In this case $2000. Gigi’s x rays and surgery cost more than $4000. The breeder was notified immediately and copied with reports as well as talking with her ever day. She is now denying all of that. Yesterday she did state in writing that she will send $1,000 in place of a puppy after her new female has two litters. However, she was really trying to have us take a pup from a litter this year. At this point, I have had enough and just asked for $1260. This includes the $260 we spent on the male with hemophelia. Now the breeder wants me to return Gigi to her and she will sell her and send me the funds from the sale minus the cost of her boarding Gigi. We love Gigi! She is my shadow! My love! We bought Gigi a van, a house with an acre and fenced it and provide a wonderful home. But Gigi gives us more than we could ever give to her. There is more to this story – we had adopted a male from the same breeder a few years ago. He was actually from a litter from her daughter’s OES and one of hers. This pup turned out to have aggression issues – issues too difficult for us. We spent tons on training in home, training in kennel clubs, socializing him etc… The breeder informed me months later that he was a problem puppy (growled at her often) and his mother is very hyper and nervous. Additionally I learned she allowed her daughter to mate her bitch only to help the daughter raise some money. For seven months I loved that dog, worked on training and took wonderful care of him. He needed a strong experienced handler. Not every dog is right for every person. We had no choice but to have him re-homed. It was not an easy decision. I cried for weeks. The breeder did assist us and put him in a home with another one of her pups. One year later, they were both given up to rescue. It took me a year to get over the loss. He is in a very good place now with the right people. Sorry for the long story. But it had to be told. Hope no one else has to experience this. The breeder has not wanted me on this forum. I should have known better – not to adopt any more pups from this breeder. I was warned. I have learned a lot. |
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I am thankful that Gigi has you.  |
That's a really horrible story and I am sorry you went through it. I hope you are keeping Gigi? A new puppy from this breeder seems like you'd be taking on new vet bills. Under the law you were describing, you have the option of whether to return the dog for a refund or exchange or keep the dog and recover vet expenses up to the amount you paid for the dog. Don't let her bully you into some other outcome. This has to be done within one year of the purchase. However, it also depends on your contract and whether you signed a waiver with the purchase.  http://www.freshfromflorida.com/ai/main/pet_main.shtml |
| Carol~~ I am very sorry that you are going through this. And I am glad Gigi has you and you have her!!! This breeder seems to have problems with her breeding ethics. Is she a member of OESCA??? If she is, I am sure you can file a complaint against her. She needs to be stopped!! What she is doing is not for the betterment of the breed! I hope the breeder will reimburse you for your out of pocket expenses since her breeding is the reason for Gigi's problems. It is the moral thing to do!!!! |
| There was no contract with Gigi. Also I did not file with the State in the first year because i trusted her to do the right thing. She was also having many problems with her stock at the time. No she is not a member of OESCA. She wants to be. NO I WILL NOT GIVE GIGI BACK! That idea is just ridiculous! All we want now is less than we are entitled to. I have been nice and taken the high road, but i receive extremely rude and personally insulting emails from this breeder. Additionally, I want the nasty emails stopped. There are more stories with this breeder then I have posted here. |
Valerie wrote: Under the law you were describing, you have the option of whether to return the dog for a refund or exchange or keep the dog and recover vet expenses up to the amount you paid for the dog. Don't let her bully you into some other outcome. This has to be done within one year of the purchase. However, it also depends on your contract and whether you signed a waiver with the purchase. http://www.freshfromflorida.com/ai/main/pet_main.shtmlThen again, it might be just your starting position in looking for an agreement to settle this as friends. You might still be able to salvage your relationship to some degree, which it sounds like you treasured at some point. Maybe completely. Maybe not at all. But it's worth a try.... and worth trying to get all of this sadness and frustrations (and anger?) behind you in your life. Say to the breeder: "Here's what you should have done. I know things were tough. What can you do for me right now?" And you get the breeder's opening position. Good luck. |
| I'm really sorry to hear of all you've had to go through. I hope things get worked out and you finally find some peace. |
| Ron I agree with you. I have, for 1 1/2 years, approached it on friendly terms and continued with that approach this week to no avail. Her last offer was to return Gigi to her, wait for her sell Gigi and then she will refund whatever money is left from the sale after her boarding expenses have been deducted. That does not sound like a person who cares for the well being of Gigi. There is no anger here, just disappointment and concern for future puppies and owners. I believe it is a moral and ethical issue. |
| i have watch in silence for well over 3 years carol doing everything she could taking care of her sheepies the good the bad.for years i have told her all oes are not like this . since she had never had a sheepy i guess she thought it was alot of work and heart ache.. this is what a bad byb can do to you..but she has tryed to be nice and it really got her nowhere.. i know she will never give back gigi ,i have watched carol get new car bigger house and yard and so much training for her dogs so it is so sad being nice in life gets you know where.. that said..the sad thing is the breeder know here, has become rude and even threw me under the bus .. i know as all of you having surgerys on our sheepdogs takes alot of patience and money .. so again i am sadden by this.. but in the long run gigi will always have a good mommie watching out for her! |
| I have a question As some of you know, I have Murph 2 the second returned dog.... Our rescue group took him in and we adopted due to his "resource guarding" Never once did anybody tell me he was aggressive and honestly he is quite the charmer at the coffee shop! The breeder did tell me as a pup he would growl.... Actually, he is a grumbler! I don't know what he was doing as a pup but, now he talks, sings, moans, groans etc.... I just wonder why I was NEVER told he was returned due to aggression?? |
| Murphy 2 that is a good question Kathy. food aggression he did have. he at times was aggresive with people and other dogs. I hired private trainers, behaviourists and brought him to classes. At times, he was a wonderful friendly guy then other times he was not. I worked hours and hours everyday with him -- walked him, socialized him and trained --obedience, agility etc... He made a lot of progress but still had issues that concerned me and I at the time was not a proper handler for him. He went after my husband when he was carving the Thanksgiving Day turkey. He bit me for trying to pick up something in front of him. It was scary. Murphy also decided to attack Suzie's dog, Derby, one day in my car. That scared both Suzy and me. Murphy needed a strong alpha experienced handler. Guess the breeder thought you had the experience and knowledge. I am so happy Murph is doing well with you. |
| I have talked to several people who knew Murphy and nobody told me he was aggressive... It was not only the breeder that did not tell me.... So, Carol, you surrendered him due to aggression? |
oesmom2 wrote: There was no contract with Gigi. Also I did not file with the State in the first year because i trusted her to do the right thing. She was also having many problems with her stock at the time. No she is not a member of OESCA. She wants to be. NO I WILL NOT GIVE GIGI BACK! That idea is just ridiculous! All we want now is less than we are entitled to. I have been nice and taken the high road, but i receive extremely rude and personally insulting emails from this breeder. Additionally, I want the nasty emails stopped. There are more stories with this breeder then I have posted here. As you have stated, You have no written contract, that was your first mistake on both parts. Your Breeder HAS given you options, YOU are making the decision on what you want to do or not do. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You cannot expect to keep a dog and get money back too. I don't know any breeder that would do that. My first TWO SHOW DOGS were dysplastic. Did i get $ back? NO, did i give the dog back? no, did i receive any discount on the 2nd dog? NO. did i learn a valuable lesson? YES And that was from a TOP KENNEL BREEDER ..........unless you have things in writing, you take what you get. I'm not in any way involved in this and don't want to be but this is something that should be taken privately between the two parties and off of this list with everyone's input into a situation that doesn't concern them. |
Donner's Mom wrote: I have talked to several people who knew Murphy and nobody told me he was aggressive... It was not only the breeder that did not tell me.... So, Carol, you surrendered him due to aggression? hey kathy i did have murphy for a week and had to break up a derby and murphy more then once to be honest not sure if it was over food.. he was a handful at that time- so i could not bring him in with my old daytona and dolly .. but like carol stated once in the car he when after derby for no reason .. he was at this time under 1 yr old |
| this is an important topic. newbies need to learn about the chances they take with some BYBs |
Ali wrote: [You cannot expect to keep a dog and get money back too. I don't know any breeder that would do that. Actually, the interesting thing about the law in Florida is that one of the options is to keep the dog and to be reimbursed for the veterinary expenses -- which some might see as keeping the dog and getting your money back. One of the sections states as follows: "If, within 1 year following the sale of an animal subject to this section, a licensed veterinarian of the consumer's choosing certifies such animal to be unfit for purchase due to a congenital or hereditary disorder which adversely affects the health of the animal . . . the pet dealer shall afford the consumer the right to choose one of the following options. . . (c) The right to retain the animal and receive reimbursement for reasonable veterinary costs for necessary services and treatment related to the attempt to cure or curing of the dog or cat." |
| Florida Law does provide for just that -- keep the dog, get the purchase price returned and vet costs up to the purchase price. A contract with breeder is not required here. Due to many BYB in the state, this law was enacted. It does apply to puppies bought out of state also. My motivation to post this was to alert potential OES pup buyers to be careful. I was not. As for the money, well that i will deal with that in private thru other channels. There is a always a silver lining -- good things have come out of all this. I have learned a lot! Gigi is wonderful! She is staying here of course! She is working on becoming a therapy dog, learning Rally and agility (well I am too). Gigi is also learning how wear her bling! Never again will I buy from a non OESCA breeder and I will work with rescue and/or foster of this wonderful breed. |
| Agree with you Guest2, a good thing to read and am finding it educational as well. Carol thanks for posting what has happened and I feel for you with Gigi and all the nonsense you have been through as far as her breeder is concerned. Hard to really receive any compensation due to her coming from a BYB and no formal contract or sales agreement, I dont know the law over there, but can a civil suit be taken with all the evidence so far that you have from documented vets reports and costs be sought in that arena through some sort of Civil action now? You have certainly been more then patient with the BYB. I am so glad you are keeping her and there would be no way I would hand her back either, you have been through all that, fixing her OCD etc and anywonder the BYB wants her back now to sell her and re-pay you, just ridiculous demand now she is on her way to better health & in such a loving home. As far as breeding that bitch from which Murphy came from, most of us in the know would never contemplate breeding a bitch which showed signs of agression, flytyness or nervousness. It does pass down the mothers temperatment, any breeder in the know how of the breed would exclude a bitch like that from there breeding programs as it is the bitch that raises and nurtures her pups so they learn a lot from there MOM in the short time they are with her. Best wishes I hope it all turn out positive for you and Gigi, keeping fingers crossed here common sense prevails and the breeder is also out of business soon.!!! You have also educated me with OES with Hemophelia, I know that can be a problem in GSD but here I have never heard of it in OES. Regardless of everything you have been through with this BYB you are a wonderfull loving home and thank goodness Gigi is with you, if nothing eventuates put it down to a learning curb for the future, we all make boo boos and education of what has happened so far is the way to go and what you posted is certainly a warning to others down the track  Best wishes and here is hoping you do have some sort of avenue to persue. |
oesmom2 wrote: As for the money, well that i will deal with that in private thru other channels. Unless there is something missing, as a non-lawyer I don't see where you'd have any case at this point...? |
| Thanks Lisa! I too have learned about hemophelia in OES. There was an OES line in Florida -I don't think I can say their name - they had a history of hemophelia. They are no longer in business but the line is out there. I learned that Gigi's mom had that line in her lineage. I am not sure if her father has the gene also. Don't think the male can pass it along. Is it possible me putting this silly dress on her at a young age caused any problems?  Yes a civil suit can be brought among other avenues. don't want to go into that here. |
oesmom2 wrote: Yes a civil suit can be brought among other avenues. don't want to go into that here. You're right!OK, we're done. |
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