Full coats and hot weather
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| For the past two years I've been shaving my dogs in the summer. Where I live, it's not only the heat that is oppressive, we have high humidity. Wendel has a profuse, heavy coat and while he lived with his previous owner, there was a scare that he nearly overheated. This year, I'm going to do scissor trims to cut their coats down to 2-3 inches rather than the 6+ inches they have now. |
| It's going to come down to how Mady does - how "hot blooded" is she? Some dogs are fine with warmer temps, some just shut down. Mostly it will be a matter of trial and error, mixed with common sense. Some are ok with heat, but humidity is the evil one. Some it's just heat. There are numerous ways to get around those bothered by heat - only exercising in the cooler AM's or late pm's (when we were showing, in full coat, we did lots of walks after dark in the summer - in groups, with lights, in town - it was actually pretty fun!); thinning out some undercoat (if not showing), shaving the belly (if not showing), cooling pads, ton's of water, going swimming (pain to dry, but they love it), fans, air conditioning.....  |
| We're in hell ....also known as tx, and we never had any problems with long hair in the summer. It did mean more baths (stink from just walking down the street and back), and it meant monitoring the amount of time outside (bringing water all the time). I've never cut or grew their coat b/c of the weather. Our house is pretty cold (because we're always on the move), but our dog(s) did pant more when visiting others, but it was nothing they couldn't handle. Well, I wouldn't stay inside someone's home who had it butt hot  |
| Good question! I am starting to debate the question myself. Howie is always hot, we see his breathe in the house. He also has had this stupid cone on his head for 15 days now. You can imagine the mess of mats around his neck.  So I am trying to convince Mark that the best thing to do is to clip Howie right down and start fresh. We have an experienced OES groomer close by.To go along with Kim's question....if you shave or puppy cut your dog, and you are going to grow long again, what do you do with the top knot? Do you cut it off or do you leave it? peg and conehead howie (one more day!!) |
| We live in southern NJ and the Summer temps get high along with the excessive humidity. During the coldest times of the year when Bailee and I return from our 2 to 3 mile walks he immediately wants to go out on the deck. He loves cold weather. Just the opposite with warm weather. He starts to pant by very early April. I shave him down at least twice and usually need a slight trim in between the major clippings throughout the Spring and Summer. I take him out at about 6 in the morning and much later in the evening when the real heat sets in. We take along a bottle of water and his puppy bowl for him to drink. I know a lot of the members here have no problems with the long coat and heat, but it really is an individual thing. See how she does as the temperatures begin to climb. |
| us living in fl i see such a difference in them when i shave them .. i feel so bad for them in fl with full coats .my miss daytona hated her hair when the clippers came out she would run and stand there to get shaved.. it is in the 70's today and duff is short and dreamer has his coat and he is just panting and laying around time to get out the clippers. |
| Like Dawn said, I think it depends on your dog. I keep Violet in full coat and we live in Florida. When Violet was a puppy, I used to have her groomer shave her belly , and u really couldn't tell. We have a doggy door and when it gets hot, I have the a/c on so the dogs go in and out as they wish. Now, what I've noticed with all my dogs, Violet and the two Aussies with very thick coats, they will lay out back in the hot sun and just snooze. They will come in the house with their coats too hot to touch. They amaze me. We always leave water out in the house. I don't want bugs so don't put water outside. Walking the dog is common sense if it's hot go when it is cooler and don't walk them on the cement, it retains heat. |
| One thing is clear, we need to get air conditioning installed if we are even going to try to keep her in full coat. We live in an old house, with monsters in the unfinished scary basement, so she has no way to escape the heat indoors. Gee I hope David is reading this... |
| Kim, you're great. First a car for Mady and then air conditioning so she stays cool. What a dedicated dog owner you are! peg & cone head howie |
pegspup wrote: Kim, you're great. First a car for Mady and then air conditioning so she stays cool. What a dedicated dog owner you are! peg & cone head howie Will you think less of me if I tell you that I secretly want air conditioning too? For me? |
pegspup wrote: Kim, you're great. First a car for Mady and then air conditioning so she stays cool. What a dedicated dog owner you are! peg & cone head howie Will you think less of me if I tell you that I secretly want air conditioning too? For me? |
Nope!  Kim, we all know you've been willing to suffer without A/C, but that was pre-Mady!Both of our sheepdogs "ran hot". I kept Quincy in full coat for over a year, and he couldn't wait to get into the house and lay on an A/C vent as soon as the temps got above 70 degrees. Oscar is the same. I only kept him in full coat for 8 months, until he got a terrible infection in his front leg. Since then, he gets shaved to 2 inches about every 8 weeks or so, in order to keep up with all of the bathing required by his skin issues. Even shaved, he only gets cold when he's outside and it's below zero, and even then, sometimes I have to force him into the house. He is NEVER cold in the house. In the winter, we keep our house at 67 degrees, going down to 64 degrees at night. Oscar still sleeps on the tile floor in the master bathroom. It's almost 60 degrees here today  and Oscar is panting like crazy. I might have to open some doors and turn off the heat.  It really does depend on the dog, but Oscar and Quincy both love/loved being shaved. Laurie and Oscar |
| I realise this maybe controversial and it's not intended to cause trouble. Seriously if you think it's to hot for a sheepie where you live in the summer - should you be keeping sheepies? Maybe shorter haired dogs would be better? Don't forget the slip slap slop on their pink bits once you shave them down. Like I said not wishing to cause an arguement. Just food for thought.  |
| Heh, I'm not too worried about that, since Ottawa is colder than anywhere in the UK where sheepdogs are from. We may need to get central air conditioning though. |
Archies Slave wrote: I realise this maybe controversial and it's not intended to cause trouble. Seriously if you think it's to hot for a sheepie where you live in the summer - should you be keeping sheepies? Maybe shorter haired dogs would be better? Don't forget the slip slap slop on their pink bits once you shave them down. Like I said not wishing to cause an arguement. Just food for thought. I don't think that it is too hot for a sheepie but this is my first summer with a long haired dog so I am guessing, to a degree. We live in Ottawa, Canada, so summer isn't an issue for long, as summer in Ottawa is 8 weeks or so, with most weekends being rainy, it always seems! I just want to make it as comfortable as possible for Mady and wanted to hear from other folks who live in warmer climates and keep their dogs in long coats. If it means I have to wake up with the birds and do our most intense exercise at 5 a.m. then I will do that. I really don't want to shave her down. I guess what I was looking for was other folks who keep their sheepies in long coats, in warm climates, and wanted them to reassure me that yes it is possible and won't be hard on Mady if we do it properly. |
| Tiggy manages here in Melbourne and we have summer days that are over 40 degrees c. so I think Mady will be fine. I haven't resorted to clipping Tiggy or shaving her tummy. She pants a lot but she pants a lot in winter too. All the info already posted is spot on. Common sense, walks early in the morning were best for Tiggy as it often stayed quite hot till midnight and that's way past both our bed times. We have central evaporative aircon with a temperature control, so last summer it pretty much just stayed on constantly, this summer we've only needed to use it half a dozen or so times as it's been really cool and wet. I have put the pedestal fan that Santa Paws brought for her on a lot but she hardly ever lies in front of it so she can't be too hot. I definitely wouldn't take her out to herd sheep or do agility or even obedience if it is going to be over 30 degrees c. But even on hot days she is happy to run around and chase her ball we just make sure she is well hydrated and has a cool house to come home to. |
| Living in Missouri, we have hot, humid summers. Mid-90s F, sometimes over 100 F is the usual temperature. We kept Oliver in coat for 2 years over the summer with no problems. Just as Mim said, common sense. We walked either early in the morning, or after the sun went down. We didn't push him if he was tired or hot. Plenty of water. That being said, we now shave Oliver due to my crazy schedule and inadequate time to properly groom two full-coated sheepies. He loves being "naked" in the summer. Carl...where are you? We need your expertise!  |
Mady wrote: I don't think that it is too hot for a sheepie but this is my first summer with a long haired dog so I am guessing, to a degree. We live in Ottawa, Canada, so summer isn't an issue for long, as summer in Ottawa is 8 weeks or so, with most weekends being rainy, it always seems! I just want to make it as comfortable as possible for Mady and wanted to hear from other folks who live in warmer climates and keep their dogs in long coats. If it means I have to wake up with the birds and do our most intense exercise at 5 a.m. then I will do that. I really don't want to shave her down. I guess what I was looking for was other folks who keep their sheepies in long coats, in warm climates, and wanted them to reassure me that yes it is possible and won't be hard on Mady if we do it properly. Okay, guess I'll wade in now. Simply put here in Ottawa there is no requirement to clip a Bobtail's coat for the summer if they have an air conditioned or cool basement refuge. There is however a requirement to "manage" their heat exposure so that they are not stressed during the hottest times of the day. I have had three Bobtails here in Ottawa and not a one has been clipped including Martin Zehram who had one of the thickest and longest coats that I have known on a Bobtail. Even several strategically placed window air conditioners can be adequate but of course central air is by far the best in terms of even cooling of the entire house and economy of operation. In our old house (an old townhouse rental in central Nepean) we had three window air conditioners and they kept the house more or less cool enough for everone, although admittedly the Bobtails did "congregate" in the immediate area of the air conditioned where the cold air tuimbled to the floor, especially the Great Mamoo. Any significant walks are in the morning before sunrise (okay that may not be practical in mid-June when the sun rises at 5:30 or so but as early as possible before the sun gets high in the sky) or late in the evening after the sun has set for a few hours allowing a bit of time for the air and ground to cool. Daytime potty walks are just that - out just long enough to get all their potties done and then right back in. - no play, no meet-and-greets etc..... A little extra indoors playtime helps them "work ot the yaiyas" throughout the day when they get the summer equivalent to cabin fever. Sometimes more important than the heat itself is the humidty, and this is why Bobtails in the US south east suffer so much more. Humidty can and often does stress these dogs more than heat itself. 25 degrees and 100% humidity can be worse than 35 degrees and low humidy! When the air is very humid a dogs' primary cooling mechanism of panting is very much compromised. On hot humid days my guys are very very restricted in how much outside time they get. I recommend you pay particular attention to how Mady respnds to humidity as the temperatures start to warm up in late April and throughout May. If she appears uncomfortabel in on high humidy 20-25 degree days you know you will have to be really careful in July and August when we get those miserable 100% humidy 30 degree plus days. Depending on how Mady responds to the heat you might want/need to supplement the a/c comfort by stripping out her undercoat. I needed to do this for Martin Zephram during a couple of particularly long heat waves over his lifetime. The coat looses some of it's "loft" without the undercoat but most people don't notice the difference and you are neither showing Mady or keeping her in show presentation so it is a reasonable option if she really "feels the heat" when outside. The other option available to you is to shave her belly area as well. Removing her belly hair where it cannot be seen anyway gives her a good "radiator" to help cool herself when lying on cool ceramic tiles or vinyl flooring. Even with central air Virgil Tiberius and Dawn Eline tend to lay on the ceramic tiles in our foyer or the vinyl flooring in the kitchen/dining room rather than the carpets elsewhere in the house. The other thing which can help a lot is to ensure she is kept well groomed in the summer, especially in the areas of her neck, chest and shoulders - which are often stripped to one extent or another anyway. These areas represent about 50% of a Bobtail's body surface and are of course the frontal areas which face into the breeze when they are walking. If these areas are well groomed even the breeze created by their own waliking can get down to the skin and help cool the skin surface. It does actually help them significantly. As long as the temperature is below the body temperature by more than 8 degrees this "wind clill" will help them stay comfortable during early morning and late evening walks. Just a few comments for you to consider. Heres to hoping that you can keep Mady in full coat because you have done a very good job with her so far and I know how you both like and value her long coat. Best Cheers |
jcc9797 wrote: Carl...where are you? We need your expertise! Jennie, Thanks for thinking of me for this thread and your kind words. I was actually working on my post above when your post came in. I'm a slow old fart and writing these things seems to take longer and longer every time. This was probably a case of talk about the devil and ......   Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| We live in the desert and my dog is in show coat. I get questions from people who are unfamiliar with desert living about how my dog tolerates the heat. My answer is always the same. She does what we do. She stays inside during the hottest part of the day. In addition to central AC, we have fans in every room and many are on the floor in cool tiled areas. Funny, that's just where we find the dogs! I have other dogs that are shaved down and I don't notice that they vary their indoor/outdoor time any more than the dog in full coat. I've found them all out napping in sun so hot you have to wear shoes to keep your feet from burning on the sidewalk. I think Carl's suggestion of stripping the undercoat out is a good one. I strip neck undercoat out as part of grooming for shows. I'm always surprised how fast it grows back... like weeks! So if you go that way, it is probably best to keep an eye on the undercoat rather than thinking if you do it once a summer that will be enough. I had a sheepdog in full coat when I lived in Washington DC. It has to be one of the most humid places on the planet (built on a swamp) and back in those days, you just brushed, you never trimmed any part of the coat. Again, she enjoyed central AC and a fan. Oh and I always try to keep ice in the water bowl and I use insulated ice buckets as water bowls. I would think in Canada you could manage it easily. |
| Thanks very much for the encouraging posts. One thing is for certain, we need to get central air conditioning installed. A lottery win right now would come in handy! |
| I live in the UK and am getting my dog cut for our so called "summer". I just think it's fairer on the dog. Yes I'd love to see him in full coat all the time but I'm not putting my personal preference before his health. I wouldn't like to wear a fleecey jumper during summer so I'd imagine neither would he! |
Guest wrote: I live in the UK and am getting my dog cut for our so called "summer". I just think it's fairer on the dog. Yes I'd love to see him in full coat all the time but I'm not putting my personal preference before his health. I wouldn't like to wear a fleecey jumper during summer so I'd imagine neither would he! I would never put my personal preference before my dog's health. Ever. I take offense that you would even suggest that, whoever you are. I posted my question BECAUSE I care about my dog's health, because I have never had an OES before, and because there are people on this forum with experience in this matter, so I asked them. If I didn't give a toss about my dog's health, I wouldn't have asked for advice. |
| I would have love to have left Howie's coat long right through the Ontario summer, but since he just got shaved I'll pretend I love it. The one thing we have noticed is that Howie now sleeps straight through the night from 10 pm - 7:45 am. He is not waking me up to go sleep in a snowbank at 2am! We will be letting his coat grow and keep an eye on what length he seems most comfortable in.  Fingercrossed it is a longer coat.peg and handsome howie |
Mady wrote: Guest wrote: I live in the UK and am getting my dog cut for our so called "summer". I just think it's fairer on the dog. Yes I'd love to see him in full coat all the time but I'm not putting my personal preference before his health. I wouldn't like to wear a fleecey jumper during summer so I'd imagine neither would he! I would never put my personal preference before my dog's health. Ever. I take offense that you would even suggest that, whoever you are. I posted my question BECAUSE I care about my dog's health, because I have never had an OES before, and because there are people on this forum with experience in this matter, so I asked them. If I didn't give a toss about my dog's health, I wouldn't have asked for advice. I didn't suggest that YOU don't care about your dog, so how can you take offense? Maybe I was answering other owners who have stated they keep their dogs in full coat through very high temperatures. How anyone could think their dogs would be comfortable baffles me. I know people have stated they keep them indoors or don't exercise them during the warm parts of the day but is that really in the best interests of the dog? |
Guest wrote: I know people have stated they keep them indoors or don't exercise them during the warm parts of the day but is that really in the best interests of the dog? Works for me...Siesta! |
| It works as long as they get their exercise. I don't exercise my dogs in the middle of the day even when it's cold, because it doesn't work with my schedule and life. Hot or cold I always exercise them in the mornings and the evenings. Even the dalmo, but he needs to wear a coat when it's cold. I can't grow his hair so he gets his own coat for winter as he doesn't like the cold. He still comes for a walk and it doesn't hurt him but he just doesn't enjoy himself as much. When it's hot I exercise myself earlier or later in the day as it's more comfortable. I could exercise in the middle of the day and it wouldn't cause any damage to my health but it's not pleasant so I don't. I apply the same principle to my dogs, we could exercise in the heat but why would we? It's just not pleasant. |
| I am not overly worried. We tend to have 1-2 weeks of very hot weather tops, and Mady is much less active then, but so is everyone else! When I did walk Mady out for short walks in the heat during last year's heatwave some people worried that it was too hot, but it was too hot for everyone, including me and other dogs! A short-haired dog can suffer heat stroke exercising midday in the sun during a heatwave. So can a person. We just have to be sensible and apply the same sensibility we'd have for ourselves when it's really hot out. |
Guest wrote: Mady wrote: Guest wrote: I live in the UK and am getting my dog cut for our so called "summer". I just think it's fairer on the dog. Yes I'd love to see him in full coat all the time but I'm not putting my personal preference before his health. I wouldn't like to wear a fleecey jumper during summer so I'd imagine neither would he! I would never put my personal preference before my dog's health. Ever. I take offense that you would even suggest that, whoever you are. I posted my question BECAUSE I care about my dog's health, because I have never had an OES before, and because there are people on this forum with experience in this matter, so I asked them. If I didn't give a toss about my dog's health, I wouldn't have asked for advice. I didn't suggest that YOU don't care about your dog, so how can you take offense? Maybe I was answering other owners who have stated they keep their dogs in full coat through very high temperatures. How anyone could think their dogs would be comfortable baffles me. I know people have stated they keep them indoors or don't exercise them during the warm parts of the day but is that really in the best interests of the dog? Why not? My dogs don't have a very hectic schedule so they can usually fit me in whenever. Plus, we're at work all day so they're inside during those peak hours anyway. They never know the difference. |
| What people are forgetting is an OES has a weather proof coat, acting like insulation in both winter and summer. They dont shed like other dogs and like SHEEP there coats act accordingly to climate changes with the seasons. We here in OZ can have stiffling temps in summer, I have never clipped off just because it is hot and in summer we live in a very hot enviroment and my dogs have never suffered in summer. Common sense as to exercise, etc just like us uprights as we would not go outside on a run, exercise or long walk etc in 40+Celcius heat in the midday sun in summer. Each to there own as to wether they clip for summer or not, but it is not cruel to leave them in coat as there coats are an insulation factor too. Saying that also I would not leave any dog out in extreme heat in the middle of the day, regardless of the breed or wether long or smooth coated. |
I think another factor to consider is that, like people, dogs do acclimate to the temps they are used to. My dogs are very cold-weather acclimated, and if we travel to a warm area (as we sometimes do) I do shave them down. They think nothing of playing outside in -20F, but anything over 60F leaves them panting and miserable  . Dogs who have lived in a warm climate for a while seem to get used to that as well. |
| This has been very helpful. Normally I come home at lunch and Mady and I have a 45 minute walk or dog park trip (in addition to the walk she gets with David in the morning and the 2 hours she gets with me after work). I asked at the dog park if there is ever anyone there early in the morning and there is, which is great! So instead of dog parking (dog parking is probably not a verb) it at noon and then again at 4:30, we will shift it to first thing in the morning and then later on in the evening. Of course, as I write this, my back yard is still full of snow. I am thinking that if sheepies can thrive in Palm Springs and Australia, they can probably manage in Ottawa! Now, David, if you are reading this, this does NOT mean that you can get away with avoiding the installation of air conditioning this year! |
| I just HAVE to add a few things.. Heart came to me in July, from Colorado TO Missouri..I knew she was miserable that first summer. She wouldn't go outside~~she would lay on the A/C vent. Since I couldn't (wouldn't ) shave a 9 week old puppy, I did the next best thing. I bought 2 fans and put them by her crate. I turned down the A/C, and I lured her outside with treats, she would 'go' and we would rush inside. I think that is why she was trained so quickly...that and Ali beginning before she left her. The next summer was much better because, at that point, she DID acclimate to our weather. She was fullcoasted and didn't lay on the A/C or need the fans. I DO strip her undercoast ALL the time, since she is mostly FUZZ. In the summer she gets clipped to even her coat. In the middle of summer when temps go up to 100, I don't go outside, so why should she???? Makes sense to me!! Heart gets plenty of exercise...we take classes and we go on therapy visits. We also play games in the house so I am not concerned about her 'walks', we just do things differently... Every dog is different. Pearl was never into walks, BUt she loved to run around the house or fetch in the backyard. Again, for those of you who need to be reminded...she is 15 years old, so I must be doing something right!!!! just my opinion~~~~  |
Mady wrote: Now, David, if you are reading this, this does NOT mean that you can get away with avoiding the installation of air conditioning this year! When he's done over there.... |
| I keep Ru in full coat all year round. He is groomed once a week so the air can circulate & he has 2 fans he can sit by if he likes. I'm going to look for an air con unit for his room during the summer. We are lucky if we have a month of heat here anyway! I walk him late at night in the summer & he always has plenty of water available. He also likes to lay in the sun but I don't really let him do that too much. |
| I lived in Tucson, Az when I got my first OES, Jasper. I never shaved him down or stripped his undercoat..he just did what I did. Stay inside when it is really hot out and go out early in the am and late in the pm for our walks. We also had a big yard at the time and he went out at night and played fetch or whatever. I just recently moved back to Phx this time instead of Tucson but from New Jersey and my Maui seems to be a lil heated. So I just make sure the house is cold...and i take her out early or late and make sure she has tons of cold water..she loves ice....i did shave her down a bit this summer but more because we have a pool and she LOVES to swim and with my working and having 3 kids to deal with I thought it would be easier to handle her coat that way. I hope that next year I can keep her long as two more of my lil kiddos will be leaving home for college and the like!! |
| I live in New Orleans,talk about humid, and like Carl has written, the humidity is the factor. I have never shaved my dogs because of the heat,just have used common sense,like you would use with yourself. Stripping out the undercoat,shaving the belly, do help. No outside from 10-8 here, except for a quick potty. Please do not forget to rub sunscreen on your pets muzzle,the pink skin is exposed to the rays. If you feel your pet is overheated,you can place a cold bottle or ice wrapped in a cloth on the pads of their paws.I do believe there are more ways to cool the dog off, but I am not 100% sure what that entails,others may know, if they wish to chime in. Hope you win that lottery! Robin |
gumbo41 wrote: Please do not forget to rub sunscreen on your pets muzzle,the pink skin is exposed to the rays. So you just use regular human 60 spf sunscreen? |
| No one for babies and toddlers. |
| New on the market is a product called, Epi-Sun Protector,formulated specifically for horses and dogs,but not to be used on cats. It is FDA approved. I have always used a sunscreen that could be applied on a toddler. Robin |
| Thank you for the sunscreen info. Since that groomer shaved Mady's nose, it always seems a bit sparse and pink to me, so I will start using sunscreen. |
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