DUMBBELLS
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| We start by using a working glove....cotton, the thinner the better. Try that at first. Get her comfortable with that in her mouth. Put you hand in the glove, gloved hand with 4 fingers in her mouth & thumb under her chin. Once she starts to accept the glove in the mouth, gently apply pressure under the chin to make her realize she needs to hold it. When removing the gloved hand, always release the thumb pressure under the chin & move the gloved hand up & away. This way she will learn not to "drop" the dumbell later on when you say "release". Move on to her retreiving the glove when you toss it. Then you can move on to the dumbbell. By this time they should realize something you put in their mouth is not going to gag or kill them. Sometimes it takes awhile for them to accept the dumbbell since it is thicker & heavier. The key is for them to realize they get some great kind of reward for doing as you say. So start out with rewards for the "little" things & gradually move on to only rewarding when the dumbell is retrieved, brought back to you & held until you say "release". Eventually you want the reward to be your praise. |
| If you go the glove route and you're still at a loss you may also want to consider clicker training. I've only had one natural retriever so far who would retrieve anything , anytime, anywhere. Also two whose definition of toys was limited to sheep (or goats) and thought putting a dumb bell in their mouths amounted to dog abuse, if not torture. I have one who retrieves and tugs just fine but wasn't going to put that stanky dumb bell in her mouth without going through the whole dramatic "what's my motivation?" display. And then one who loves games like chase and tug, but whom I had to teach "bring it back to me and let me take it" with a clicker (and an exchange game). She'd come back and then hold the clenched DB in her mouth wanting me to try to get it so she could play tug with it   Once I got her to release it we were good. Point being, they're all different. Not one of mine has gotten turned on by the dumbbell by having me plop it in their mouth and holding it though. Where's the game in THAT? As is typical of the breed you have to make a game out of it. Even my natural retriever was still going to do it on her terms, thankyouverymuch  Goldens they ain't. You're ahead of the game because at least she'll (a) play fetch and (b) voluntarily hold something non-edible in her mouth without threatening to call her lawyer. So the glove route may work for you and you'll eventually be teaching her to retrieve a glove anyway, so that's kind of nice. But if you nonetheless still run into resistance transitioning to the DB and she and you know how the clicker works <?> getting her excited about the dumb bell should be a piece of cake. I'll spell out how to get started if you're interested. Have to run right now. Kristine |
| I think that the ball excites her since I bounce it so it is fun. I can try the glove since you're probably right about the hardness issue. I can get her to retrieve a soft toy if I squeek it before tossing it. On to the glove route and I will add in a clicker with that. Well she is smart so maybe by Monday I can have her at least a little interested in the dumbbell. I was almost tempted to rub the dumbbell with something that smelled good to get her interested in the wood. I think it smell too new and boring to her. |
sheepiegail wrote: I was almost tempted to rub the dumbbell with something that smelled good to get her interested in the wood. I think it smell too new and boring to her. We all think this at one time or another. But NOT a good idea! It would make her "mouth" it & mouthing a dumbbell is points off!. If she doesn't like the wooden dumbell, maybe try the plastic ones. I used them mainly because I knew my girl at the time was a aggressive chewer & I didn't want any to give her any reason to chew the dumbbell. There's still some "scratches" in it from training but not like what would have been in a wooden one. |
| Another idea to try is a short section of wooden dowel. Pick a size that fits your dog's mouth (diameter) and is long enough to stick out a couple inches out both sides of the mouth. If you buy a section of dowel you can cut it into several of these handy trainers. Many dogs accept the wood without all the extra weight from the ends of the dumbell better. And they are really handy to stick some in pockets, training bags and do a quick and fun training session. |
| I did but both a plastic and a wooden dumbbell. It never occurred to me to try switching. I have only been practicing with the wooden one. Is it okay to try getting her excited about the dumbbell??? move it around the floor and then do a short toss???? or should I keep this "business mode retrieve" |
sheepiegail wrote: I did but both a plastic and a wooden dumbbell. It never occurred to me to try switching. I have only been practicing with the wooden one. Is it okay to try getting her excited about the dumbbell??? move it around the floor and then do a short toss???? or should I keep this "business mode retrieve" The question becomes, are you aiming for an OTCH, or for a dog who happily retrieves? Because by turning the DB into a toy (most OES like movement) you risk getting some pouncing. For me it's worth it to build excitement into the dumb bell. Once I had that with Sybil I started tossing the DB so it would land right at a wall, thus making it harder to pounce on (some get so into the movement that they pounce on it and kick or flick it with their paws to get it to move, and she was one of those ) Pouncing is points off. I can live with a less than perfect pickup though if it means maintaining attitude. Within reason...Having the judge have to scramble to not get hit by sheepdog playing with DB doesn't fall into the "within reason" caregory in my book  Now, I've avoided food on DB ever since I once smeared Belle's dowel with squeeze cheese in desperation to get her interested in it. It worked. She was interested all right. It graduated immediately from boring toy to edible. And so she ate it.  She always mouthed it/rolled it somewhat. I don't think the food triggered it. When I started out with her I had no one to help me size the dumb bell properly. When I first started out with one of my current obed instructors she took one look at the DB I was using and asked me if I was training a small horse?  Less is more, she said. So I bought some new dumbells, much lighter, smaller dowel diameter and smaller ends so it interferred less with sight (somewhat important both for pick-up and jumping with it, especially) and immediately Belle was a darn sight happier with the process. I use both plastic and wood and mine seem to prefer wood, though I teach them to retrieve both, just in case. I prefer to trial with wood, but they are more apt to break than plastic ones so it's good to have a dog who will pick up pretty much anything. Once you get that far. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: I'll spell out how to get started if you're interested. Have to run right now. Kristine Yes please, as I haven't started yet. The how to size would be good as I haven't a clue. Tiggy will fetch a ball but only if it squeaks and yes she does pounce a bit. She has started pouncing on her jolly ball too, so I might have created me a problem. She will also hold a tightly rolled up and cling wrapped newspaper (that's how they're delivered to the front door) in her mouth but she won't bring it back because it's more fun to see if she can convince me to chase her. Due to her love of tugging we're still very much at the exchange for something good stage. |
Mim wrote: Mad Dog wrote: I'll spell out how to get started if you're interested. Have to run right now. Kristine Yes please, as I haven't started yet. The how to size would be good as I haven't a clue. Will do when I have a bit more time, probably tonight or tomorrow. And figures Ms T takes off with your newspaper Kristine |
| What is all this dumbbell stuff about? What are the dogs to do with the dumbbell? Is there some kind of dumbbell carrying dog sport? Everytime I think I have a grip on all the dog activities, pulling, herding, agility etc. something new comes up! Enlighten me please! |
Mady wrote: What is all this dumbbell stuff about? What are the dogs to do with the dumbbell? Is there some kind of dumbbell carrying dog sport? Everytime I think I have a grip on all the dog activities, pulling, herding, agility etc. something new comes up! Enlighten me please! It's part of competitive obedience. Not sure how the canadian classes compare to the US ones, but it is part of obedience classes after the 1st level. In Novice you don't use it in competition, but in Open you do. The dog has to retrieve on the flat - you have them sit in heel position, throw the dumbell across the ring, then "send" your dog - they run across the floor and pick it up - and come back and sit in front of you (like in a recall). You take the dumbbell(which they relinquish on command), and then they do a finsh (like a recall). They also have to do the same over the high jump - the jump is placed in the middle of your ring and you throw the dumbbell over the jump. The dog has to take the jump to get the dumbbell, then jump it with the dumbbell in their mouth coming back. The rest is all done like the retreive on flat. There also are directed retrieves done with a glove (a white cotton work-style glove) - 3 gloves are dropped along the far side of the ring; 1 in each corner, the other in the middle. You and the dog are across the ring, in line with the middle one. Then on the judges direction, you send your dog to one of the 3 gloves and the dog has to get the correct one. The front and finish are completed like the retrieve on flat. Hope that helps! |
Mady wrote: What is all this dumbbell stuff about? What are the dogs to do with the dumbbell? Is there some kind of dumbbell carrying dog sport? Everytime I think I have a grip on all the dog activities, pulling, herding, agility etc. something new comes up! Enlighten me please! Very good description from Dawn. Although it sounds & looks easy when you see it being done, it can take a long time to get an OES to accept a dumbbell. They just aren't natural retrievers. Retrieving dogs tend to have it bred into them to retrieve & return with absolutely anything that may fit into their mouth. With an OES, you need to make them understand there is a grand prize if they do this. As usual, here again, the "thinker gene" comes into play. "Is this really worth it?" Once they get past that they tend to LOVE retrieving the dumbbell. My 1st obedience dog learned to retrieve the dumbbell within 1 month. My instructors were highly impressed. They had told me to expect it to take near 6 months to achieve this. I guess they hadn't figured out Melody understood English |
| Thank you for the explanation! I am pretty sure Mady take the gloves and run away to a corner to chew on them. I guess that is where the obedience part comes into play! |
Mady wrote: Thank you for the explanation! I am pretty sure Mady take the gloves and run away to a corner to chew on them. I guess that is where the obedience part comes into play! Oh, that would so be Sybil too. I had to make it worth her while to bring stuff back to me or else she simply would have thanked me for tossing her things to chew Though not the official site, so I would check to make sure this is current - I couldn't find them on the CKC site, though; hopefully you'll have better luck - you can read about Canadian obedience trials and titles here: http://www.doindogs.com/Obedience_trial ... ndex.shtml Basic AKC and CKC obedience classes and titles are very similar, though there are some differences. We had a Canadian dog come down for the OESCA national to compete in Rochester. He did a great job. A number of American competitors who live relatively close to the border used to title their dogs in both countries as well. Something to think about... Kristine |
Mim wrote: Yes please, as I haven't started yet. The how to size would be good as I haven't a clue. Sizing is hard. I started with an inherited dumb bell from co-breeder who hadn't done obedience in over a decade. This is Sybil reluctantly modeling it  It's the one furthest away in this picture  Or. for comparison purposes, perhaps easier to see differences here:  Someone mentioned that the taller the bell itself, the more it interfers with vision. So I tried something with less bell: Sybil still not happy:  I bought a couple more and played with them but it took my (then new) obedience instructor to figure out what worked. She told me there shouldn't be so much dowel that it was sticking out on each side of the dog's mouth, rather should fit snuggly to reduce opportunities to mouth it. This is Belle's original (fitted) dumb bell, but I've been using the same size since:  The best thing to do for this purpose is to get together with a bunch of experienced people who have dogs sort of roughly Tiggy's size (and somewhat smaller, as less is often more, it seems, in our breed's case) Then just try some out, write the dimensions down and order one (at first) You'll probably need to find some place that supplies obedience supplies, not just some dumb bells in some basic pet store. The other thing I learned is that a dumb bell that is made of one piece of wood, as opposed to my first one which was a dowel with two bells fit onto the ends, is less likely to break. I still prefer a nice wooden dumb bell, but always get a corresponding sized plastic one and teach the dog to retrieve that too, as you never know when even a well made wooden one will break. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I don't think there is a nice, neat formula. It's a bit of trial and error. Kristine |
| Thanks Kristine, that's great. I would have gone the opposite and thought that longer dowel was better to keep the bells out of Tiggy's mouth but now that you've mentioned it she probably would have chewed it to bits. |
| yes, well you see how chomped up these DBs are... One thing I was told and follow religiously:I usually start and train dogs with my crappy old DBs, but I go into the ring with newer ones (use them first, enough to make the dog comfortable with them) This is because if your DB is full of chomp marks, a judge will EXCPECTyour dog to be a mouther and be looking to take off points. Not sure if that is true, but... KB |
| Sounds like good logic. We're all swayed by first impressions, like it or not. |
Mad Dog wrote: yes, well you see how chomped up these DBs are... One thing I was told and follow religiously:I usually start and train dogs with my crappy old DBs, but I go into the ring with newer ones (use them first, enough to make the dog comfortable with them) This is because if your DB is full of chomp marks, a judge will EXCPECTyour dog to be a mouther and be looking to take off points. Not sure if that is true, but... KB I was told the same thing. Which is why I opted for the plastic dumbbell. Not as noticeable. |
| I found this article about sizing dumbbells. http://malinut.com/ref/write/choose-a-dumbbell/ There's no pictures  so I'm going to have to reread it to get my head around the different angled dumbbells, but it is quite comprehensive and it agrees with Kristine on the point of trying to find an opportunity to experiment with different dumbbells. |
| Great article, Mim. Thanks a bunch! KB |
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