Allergies ...again with Yuks
Yuki won't quit eating her butt (those that know her history... her nub is unrecognizable b/c it's so chewed up) ...and now she is working on her paws. We started to put some cute daisy dukes on her  ...which worked for awhile and soccer socks on her legs, but she's now chewing up all my shorts!!! So that quick fix no longer works. Her paws really don't look that red/orange yet (but luckily I'm ALWAYS stopping her and can hear that sound of MUNCHING in the middle of the night). We think the butt fetish is all behavioral. she does it "mostly" the second we walk out the door/is anxious. The paws definitely seem like an allergy WHICH is why I'm making this post. We need to switch foods again please. History of foods we've tried: We started out on one of those science diet for allergies which worked forever. I think we stopped b/c of gas?? I'd have to look back on her own history of foods. Still liked it. Then we did the pro plan sensitive salmon whatever everyone here is on ...and that worked for a long time ...until it didn't. We've done Nutro (horrible results) another high end food and I can't remember even after a quick google. ...some famous person's name (newman maybe??). I do know she does TERRIBLE on stuff that most people recommend as one of the less familiar choices ...like venison, sweet potato, etc. Through other threads, I think I've learned it's just too dang rich for her. She's on Wellness right now and that was all perfect for years until my husband thought he'd switch to a different type of Wellness. One for allergies and only has 3 ingred. That made it worse ...so tried the one with 2 ingredient and nothing else. ...figuring that must be better since there's nothing in it and it says for Allergies. I told him she doesn't do well on the flavor he got (I'm thinking it was sweet potato ...I threw away the bag and it's in a container so I don't know). ...and I was right. I'm trying to switch her back to the one she was doing good on (lamb, barley) ...but it may have already become a habit because the paw licking is still getting worse. When we tell her to stop licking, she continues to lick "the air" for a long time at what seems like an effort to listen to me but can't resist. When I look, there are no hot spots, and no signs of a yeast infection in her paws. I'd like to try another food that I CAN FIND in Petco or Petsmart. We're going tomorrow. any suggestions? Anything we can tell the dr so we don't get the same speech about "well... you can try a different food, change your filters, bathe her in some oatmeal shampoo..." ...all that crap we do already and have heard through the years. I hate all the vets I've tried here so far, and am trying to find someone better. My last effort being to buy some of the medicated shampoo I've seen 6Girls recommend which seemed to work the first few days, but it's back. She gets a bath every 10 days on the dot, and never gets human food. She did get 2 apple slices which has always been okay with her, but that stopped a week ago. I'd like to fix the paw licking (butt eating is a lost cause) before it becomes a habit. ...and her gas is out of control. Help! |
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I'm also trying to avoid shaving her down  |
| i was told once if it is on the paws it is not food it is grass or something outside |
| I'm sure you've researched this to death. Yes, butt chewing can be allergies just as paw, etc. Here are a few things I found: Quote: There is evidence that dogs with food allergies may sometimes have an increased incidence of bowel movements. One study showed that non-allergic dogs have around 1.5 bowel movements per day where some dogs with food allergies may have 3 or more per day. You could always start cooking for the Yuks. It's not like you are busy with your family that you can't stop and prep some weird meal for her, "The family is eating chicken but the Yukster is eating ostrich." In order of the most common offenders in dogs are beef, dairy products, chicken, lamb, fish, chicken eggs, corn, wheat, and soy. A food trial consists of feeding an animal a novel food source of protein and carbohydrate for at least 12 weeks. A novel food source would be a protein and carbohydrate that the animal had never eaten before. Examples would include be rabbit and rice, or venison and potato. It's kinda hard to suggest a product without first knowing what the allergy might be. For example Solid Gold has gluten free product but the main protein is chicken. Won't work if the girl is allergic to both gluten and chicken. |
| Hmmm... yuki barely poops. She poops once a day and it's small. She eats (random fyi) 4C a day no matter what brand she's on ...or she goes completely anorexic. She's 60-62lbs. No thyroid issues. Getting teeth cleaned in Feb (she doesn't chew at ALL and if she is given a bone...within 2 min, her teeth bleed ...was told it was genetics), so I'm trying to save any visits there again until then. I realize cooking may be the best route, but I am trying to avoid it. I'm sure I can manage boiling some chicken and everyone knows Asians always have rice in their fridge (mine gets made in advance and frozen) ..................but, one more task on my load is a lot. Right now it's one of the few reliefs I get to just tell the kids, Hey... feed the dog (boys each feed 1 C each twice a day). Heck, I don't even have to tell them and they do it, so it's such a nice feeling to have a few extra minutes to do something else. |
| Poor Yuki. Unfortunately, it could be either a food, or inhalant allergy, or a combo of both. I think of allergies like a cup. The body can handle exposure to many different things, without incident, but the more allergens are introduced, the more the cup fills up and symptoms increase. Sometimes it's just one tiny thing that causes the cup to overflow, and all heck to break loose. Once the cups has spilled over, it's very difficult to reverse the symptoms without intervention (like Benadryl or Prednisone) to quell the inflammatory response. So even though you might have already switched foods and eliminated a problem source, Yuki is still having an inflammatory response and will continue to until that cycle is broken. From my experiences with Quincy and Oscar, food allergies tend to cause digestive issues, while inhalant and contact allergies tend to cause skin trouble. (Quincy was allergic to dust and other inhalant/contact allergens, no food issues, and his troubles were all skin related. Oscar plays for both teams......) Yuki's OCD licking and "fly biting" are exactly what Oscar used to do before we discovered he had IBD. He used to do both to calm his tummy. Sounds like Yuki might have a combo thing going on. Quincy used to get low-grade staph infections on his rear when his allergies were flaring up, so that might be what is happening with Yuki's tail. I think a vet visit is probably in order. The itching can start the licking. The licking can lead to chewing. Chewing opens the skin up to infection. Which causes more pain and itching. And the cycle continues. The problem with this cycle is that it can become behavioral, once patterns are established. Dealing with the behavioral piece before dealing with the medical issues isn't going to work. (Once we got Oscar all sorted out with his meds and food, we were successful in ending the compulsive licking and fly biting.) Laurie and Oscar |
| Maggie scratches all over...we pretty much know it's outside as spring, cut grass, fall she's worse than winter. Have you tried benadryl? When she gets bad I give her one before bedtime and it allows us all to sleep. I hate to say it but when she's shaved down it's better. I also do oatmeal bath but have an oatmeal spray I use on spots that are bothering her...helps some. Good luck, I only know too well how difficult it is...Maggie arrived at 8 weeks scratching. I am using Blue...natural with no additives brown rice and chicken. Both dogs love it. |
| When you see the vet, you might ask if a skin scraping would be of any benefit. And also rule out staph. It doesn't sound like staph though because there aren't any sores. Just sharing some things that we've done and learned from others along the way... If you can't find a food that agrees with her, I would try going back to the Science Diet kibble if it improved her itching before. They have two types... a low allergen z/d and z/d ultra. Maybe one wouldn't make her so gassy? I was told it can take 8-10 weeks to "fix" a food allergy problem once the dog is on a food that he/she isn't reactive to. But it seems you would see improvement after even a couple of weeks. And as you're already doing, absolutely no other foods while doing the food trial. I would home cook if I had to do a food trial again but it's a royal pain and you don't need more work. (Only saying this after we tried z/d Ultra for 8 weeks without success.) We cook up big pork loin roasts that we get from Sam's Club. When it cool enough to handle, we remove the fat and cut into smaller chunks big enough to use up in a couple of days, bag it, then freeze it. It's not too bad to do a kettle of chicken this way too once every couple of weeks and since you already have rice in the freezer. (That's a nice idea!) If a home cooked diet is used over time though, it needs to be balanced out for proper nutrition... a good vet or animal nutritionist should be able to help do this. As an allergic dog gets older, they can become sensitive to other things that didn't bother them before. Trying to figure out what that might be is an enormous challenge. Some people have good results with intradermal allergy testing or RAST testing. For some like Bumble, nothing shows up because their particular allergen isn't included in the testing. But if you can find the allergen causing the problem, you can try to eliminate it from the environment. If the medicated shampoo doesn't help, you might instead select a mild, natural product. Just a side note... I had used a chlorhexidine shampoo that was supposed to be good for dogs with pyoderma and his got worse... not sure why that was. It had helped him before. So we went back to the mild and natural shampoos. Here are a few that we use now... Kenic Tea Tree Dog Shampoo- Melaleuca Treatment (NOT FOR CATS) Kenic Kalaya Emu Oil Pet Shampoo Natural Espree Hypo-Allergenic Coconut Shampoo (Haven't tried this on Bumble yet but on the other dogs) Natural Espree Oatmeal Baking Soda Shampoo (Haven't tried this one yet) I buy them by the gallon... do you want me to send you a small bottle of each to see if it helps Yuki? Let me know? Start with the basic antihistamines like Benedryl. There are other ones that can also be used if Benedryl is not providing the relief needed. Like any drug, we have to balance the benefits with the possible side effects. For now, Bumble is on an anti-depressant that has antihistamine benefits. http://www.vetinfo.com/side-effects-ami ... -dogs.html Am I happy about it? HECK no... but he was suffering with no known way to fix it. I just want you to know that there are other options if the over the counter antihistamines don't provide relief. We've eliminated so many things from this house... I don't know what else I can remove. I got my haircut yesterday, came home all perfume-smelling and immediately washed it with one of his dog shampoos.  (Thankfully it smells nice and leaves my coat shiny  ) Bumble's problem is pyoderma... he gets sores that have been biopsied twice as staph that is treatable with the Cephalexin category of antibiotics... this time for maybe 8 weeks to be sure it's treated long enough. Heck, I even went so far as to make an appt. with my personal doctor to test ME for staph to be certain I wasn't the source of his problem (I'm not  ). I just want this dog that was supposed to have been my healthy dog to truly be healthy.  But this may be as good as it gets... |
| I love you guys. Very helpful even a lot of common sense stuff I didn't think about (like grabbing some benadryl). We've always done that ...well, actually we use clemastine which my vets liked better but I don't remember why outside of non-drowsy. I called the vet and he's going to call back. I may just go back on z/d ultra (which is what she was originally on). Also, should I worry about an occasional hack? She's been doing it for probably a month now. Mr. J always says not to worry about it. She probably does it once a day. She hacks like a cat does ...and like a cat, no vomit comes or anything comes out but you expect it by the sound she makes. She's NEVER done this before and sometimes it sounds disturbing when she does it several times a day (3-4) which is why I was a little concerned? |
| I never got to atmosphere allergies as that hasn't raised its head here, thanks others. Very interesting about enviromental vs food. First thing a vet will say is, "Licking feet = food allergy." Maybe not. As for hacking.......she's licking and chewing fur, just like a cat, she's getting a "hair ball." Not really, but some of that goes down the throat and tickles. Jack is A#1 on this. If enough goes down, it comes back up as clear stuff with tiny cotton balls.  Jack sucks on his fur like a pacifier......and does chew and lick too. Not to obsessive unless his hair is longer. When in short coat he's fine. Just wanted to mention hacking...........Also think about ibd and Oscar mentioned above and pray that isn't it. |
Hacking.....hmmmmmmm.  Certainly could be a "furball". My SIL called last week and said that her dog, Jordan, was suddenly hacking when he got really excited. I told her I thought it was probably kennel cough, which is exactly what it turned out to be. (The doctor is in.  ) But with Yuki, I can't imagine kennel cough would hang around for a month without getting demonstrably worse until treated, or resolving. I guess it could be a virus, or possible a heart issue. Since Yuki isn't a chewer, doesn't sound like it's a stick, or a piece of a plush toy. The only other thing that popped into my head is.......worms.......Or, it might just be allergies, which is the most likely explanation, based upon Yuki's other symptoms. (When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras . Unfortunately, with Oscar, it's usually zebras!)Based upon all of this, it sounds like a vet visit might be in order before your scheduled one in February. Laurie and Oscar |
| I called the vet and called a different clinic to get their advice. Both don't think for now it's IBD esp since her butt issue has been since we got her (and doesn't have diarrhea or vomiting). Because she is older, I mentioned thyroid and maybe going ahead and getting that retested when she has her teeth cleaned. My current vet said it should be okay to wait to be seen (she gets seen in a week and a half), and to just do benadryl until then. We already have a spray that's supposed to cut the itching and help prevent a yeast infection, but that has never stopped her from itching. I do plan on trying SD again for food, but I'd have to wait to get that at the vet on Monday (not opened sat) if it's the same as when I got it back in the day. |
Quote: When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras . Unfortunately, with Oscar, it's usually zebras!Laurie, you and I would settle for a basic vanilla pony now and then! Not sure if it's ok to use on Yuki but we've used the gold color Listerine. We spray it on and rub it in a bit so it make contact with the skin. It's a temporary fix. BUT... I'd ask the vet first about using it. Mine said fine but yours may feel differently. http://www.nzymes.com/pc/viewContent.as ... wiceWeekly |
Joahaeyo wrote: I love you guys. Very helpful even a lot of common sense stuff I didn't think about (like grabbing some benadryl). We've always done that ...well, actually we use clemastine which my vets liked better but I don't remember why outside of non-drowsy. I called the vet and he's going to call back. I may just go back on z/d ultra (which is what she was originally on). You can also use Claritin with the same results as Benedryl minus drowsiness. It just seems to be a little less harsh to me than the Benedryl. |
Jaci, you said it!!! No vanilla ponies here!!!  Oscar is recovering right now from a growth removal. He has had his share of lumps and bumps taken off, but they are always loose, and under the skin, and we have them removed when he gets his teeth cleaned, no big deal. The vet always sends them out for testing, and all have come back benign. Last week, I noticed a black, shiny dot on his rear right flank, embedded in the skin, but not covered by it. It almost looked like a tiny tick. He went to the groomer for a shave, and the clippers must have opened the growth, as he came back with a black lump about ten times the size, and scabbing around the edges. Didn't like the look of it at all. Called Monday, and got him in Thursday. We are waiting for the histopathology report.  Poor pup has an inch long incision site, with four stitches, and it is driving him nuts! I think it is itching....... It's tough to put a deaf dog in an e-collar, as it restricts their sight lines considerably. I have a "clown collar" for Oscar, but he tends to get anxious in it, which sends his IBD into a tail-spin. So instead, I am basically babysitting him 24/7 until he calms down, or until I collapse from exhaustion and am forced to put him in the clown collar. (sigh) (I want a vanilla pony!!!!) Laurie and Oscar |
I hope it comes back as something insignificant.  They make us worry so! Darby had a blue/black "thing" taken off her toe a couple of weeks ago. http://oesusa.com/DarbysRightToe-121510.jpg At first, the vet thought it was a suture from a previous surgery. I had taken a picture and sent it to her after she had looked at it and a couple of days later she said it should be removed and biopsied. After the surgery, she said it was debris that looked like gauze. We all thought = . I've got to ask more about this when we go in next week because she had surgery on that toe a few years ago. She said it was a good thing to get that out because it likely would have caused a problem. Hmm... I guess that was my vanilla pony.  Hoping Oscar's is just "debris" too!! |
| Thanks, Jaci. Poor Darby! Wonder if the vet will discount this surgery if the lump was caused by something left behind from a previous procedure. Oscar also gets growths on his legs and feet. After surgery, the feet are tough to heal as there is so little skin to suture, and so much flexion in the foot. Plus, it's hard to keep those tootsies clean and dry, especially in Chicago in winter! Oscar has lumps on two of his feet right now, but the vet isn't worried about those, so rather than trying to heal three different surgery sites, we decided to focus on the one that concerned us both the most. The growth she took off on Thursday isn't like anything I have ever seen. He's also never had surgery on his trunk before. Darby's boo boo looks more like the ones we've previously removed that have all been benign. I am hoping that Oscar's new and unusual lesion is just another non-malignant growth. Unfortunately, Oscar's pink skin and sparse fur (from hypothyroidism) leave him vulnerable to dermal melanomas and sarcomas, so better safe than sorry. We should hear back early next week. How is Darby doing? Hope she is on the mend from her surgery. (I am still looking for my boring vanilla pony.........) Laurie and Oscar |
| my dogs and my sisters 4 dogs are all on Blue Buffalo dog food. They are doing great on it. Now my yellow lab does chew on her feet, turns out she is allergic to Bermuda grass. Yep thats what we have The vet gave us some steriod pads to rub on her feet once in a while and this helps stop the chewing. Best of luck, hope they can find something to help your baby out. I do have a vet tech friend and she also says benadryl is ok to give. |
| Darby's all healed up now but darn they make us worry. Hoping Oscar's latest bump will come back benign!! I can totally understand why it would be difficult to cone a deaf dog... you're taking away at least part of another sense. Poor buddy... hoping it heals up quickly and that you've been able to get some sleep. Quote: After surgery, the feet are tough to heal as there is so little skin to suture, and so much flexion in the foot. Exactly! They sedated Darby, removed the debris and put a stitch in it. The stitch ended up falling out so I kept it clean and allowed it to heal on it's own. I kept a sock on it, taped it to her fur with paper tape and we put a Muttluk on her each time she went outside. I asked that they also remove two cysts near her butt hole (ok, not the proper term) IF they had to put her under. Her fanny suture also came untied but thankfully it was long enough to retie. I cleaned it, tried a standard knot the first time and it came undone again so I tied it in a triple. Oh my... way too much information. I guess I'm saying I'm familiar with problems with sutures too! Keep us posted on Oscar? Every boy could use a pony but especially Oscar  |
| J she is not stressed at the moment as that can lead to paw sucking and even ol habits like butt chewing? Just wondering as you said she has been great for awhile and with you being preggo etc and the last 12 months also changes in her domain do you think it might be instead of allergies just maybe that? It is amazing what dogs sense and if routine is not normal because of changes in circumstances sometimes it has nothing to do with suspected allergies but behaviour. Just a thought there with Yuki and taking it from a different point of view besides allergies. |
| Glad Darby is doing better. The things we do to keep surgery sites clean and dry! (Hubby is starting to hide his tube socks, as, once I cut off the foot, the elastic parts make great top covers for Oscar's leg surgeries and IV catheter placement sites.) I would freak if Oscar's stitches came apart or fell out. They are knotted about a dozen times each on the top of his skin! The vets tend to go really deep with the scalpel on Oscar, to get clean margins around the growths, in case we are dealing with something nasty. It will be two weeks before they will remove the sutures, so I've got ten more days of this......sigh...... I should be a basket case by then from sleep deprivation. (People with "normal" dogs just don't understand. )Laurie and Oscar, who is driving his momma NUTS! |
| Oh, Laurie... I've been cutting the toes off my socks!! I like to use them on elbows too! Shoot... I never thought about using Jim's socks... |
| A friend of mine has a black Lab who has the allergy thing as well. Our vet told her to spray on the sour apple spray on the dogs paw to keep her from chewing on it. I had just called her this morning to ask her what food she had her pup on. She didn't tell me because she didn't want to let me know that it wasn't a good brand. Like I would judge. I have Oliver on Science diet right now. But we had just switched him from a cheap brand that DH had brought home to my dismay. So I am still trying to find out what could be his trigger. I am hoping that it was that food. Fingers crossed. Traci. Also I had no idea that you could give dogs benedryl or claritain!! |
| There are other antihistamines that can be used with dogs. Benedryl (diphenhydramine) is the one we often try first. If it doesn't work well, another might work better. Vets may also prescribe more than one antihistamine in order to help control itching/scratching/chewing. Heska, the allergy serum company, has a list that includes both over the counter meds along with prescription meds so talk with your vet. A couple of the prescription meds used for their antihistamine benefits (Amitriptyline (Elavil) or Doxepin anyway) may be less expensive at Sam's Club (or Walmart) http://cdn.rockfishinteractive.com/sams ... _11-08.pdf and Costco http://www.costco.com/Pharmacy/DrugInformation.aspx?p=1 . We'll save $1 per day on Amitryptyline by going through them... it may not sound like a lot but I don't know how long he'll be on this. I know Sam's has lower prices on over the counter Member's Mark generics- diphenhydramine (Benedryl) and loratadine (Claritin) too. The ones I've gotten come in a bottle instead of a blister pack. They often recommend giving a fatty acid (oil supplement) with an antihistamine but again, ask your vet. I asked the vet about the one from Sam's that's cold pressed and mercury free and got the ok. 180 capsules of Pure Alaska Salmon Oil was around $17?? More Info- http://www.vetinfo.com/dallergy.html |
| Sorry I haven't been active on this thread. I'm always nauseous now, and really have to motivate myself to do certain things ...some as simple as using the bathroom. Mr. J always just rolls me off the bed b/c he gets tired of me saying "i've got to pee again but refuse to go..." anyway, I think clemastine is what is or "WAS" in claritin. I remember my vet mentioning it when we first started using clemastine, but saying something like that they removed it or something was recalled (again don't remember) ...so it's harder to get and it's what works well with the dogs. with that said, I don't have anymore. Benadryl stinks. Doesn't even kinda work with yuki (giving her 75 mg). I'm hoping there's something stronger but not a steroid shot because the 2 times we've done that with yuks... she definitely stops the itching, but she is completely miserable and I'm always monitoring her heartbeat which is out of control. I end up calling the emerg vet b/c I'm that concerned. lisa, I think it IS anxiety and maybe stress (the butt thing), BUT it only seems to get this bad (scratching her whole body and licking paws) when she has something else bugging her. She does it just as much if we go to sleep [no one to stop her] as if we leave the house. She sleeps in our room too. She doesn't seem to lick as much if she sleeps ON the bed with us [which is a no-no normally to help her joints], but I don't say no to her whenever she is miserable like this. This allows her to feel good and it allows me to get some peace since I go INSANE once I hear licking at night. Again, so a lot of that does seem like it's some stress, but that's always been her. It's the increase that is abnormal. Her licking is getting worse. I tell her no... but that tongue/urge is so bad that she will spend forever licking the ground in front of her, or just licking her lips ...until she hears "no licking" one more time. I did just discover an ear infection, so I'm treating that and it has to be a small source of her misery. She's on her 2 day of medicine (dr gave me extra from last time just in case this did happen). Mr. J bought sd z/d ultra today at lunch, so she will start tomorrow. I'm hoping this is a food that will agree w/her again. They were out of comfy collars (e collars), so we'll probably go back this weekend. The socks/shorts aren't working anymore since she is licking through them. ...and of course I will ask for something stronger (even if it comes down to shots again) next time we go. |
| Clemastine Fumarate was marketed as Tavist... I had a hard time finding it a couple of years ago too. Finally found 100 tablet bottles of 1.34mg tablets by Sandoz. http://www.petcarerx.com/pcrx/ProductPa ... ter=NexTag This one says the mfr is Novartis (but I read there was a merger of Ciba and Sandoz). Note: Tavist was also available in a different human formula that was NOT for dogs so you need to read the labels. Quote: Tavist-Clemastine fumarate - Tavist is frequently used in the treatment of itchy skin in dogs. It is one of the most expensive, but is effective in 30% or more of dogs. The effectiveness increases when given in conjunction with Omega 3 fatty acids. It is usually given twice a day. The main side effect is drowsiness. Source: http://www.vetinfo.com/allergy-medicine ... tions.html  |
| Hi! I don't think I've posted what's been working for Fozzie. The poor man was constantly eating his feet until sopping wet and bloody, getting more hot spots, ear infections, licked his butt, rubbing his body...the works. Finally broke down and tried two 15 days series of Atopica capsules from Novartis. It is VERY expensive ($145 for 15 days) but we were out of ideas and couldn't stand to see him like this anymore and he was causing our allergies to get worse. After series 2, I was annoyed at myself for not doing this sooner, but oh well. Once we knew that the name brand worked, our vet ordered a generic liquid version from a special vet pharmacy in Arizona. While still expensive at $160 for 45 days, it's still less than the name brand and seems to still be working quite well. Foz doesn't enjoy getting squirted in his mouth at night, but I'm sure he must be secretly thanking us for making him feel better. |
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