Should I get involved?
Rudy is, in most ways, the dominant dog in our household. There are a few things that Hudson won't tolerate, and he'll let Rudy know with a growl and a snap, but otherwise he lets Rudy get away with just about everything. I was brushing my teeth when Rudy strode purposefully past me to drink in the toilet (which is a new thing...never before) so I told him no and glanced out at the water bowl. It was empty. Made sense, and I took it to the kitchen to fill it. Rudy followed, and became interested in sniffing and licking a spot on the floor. I walked back to the water bowl spot and put it down, leaving Rudy behind in the kitchen. Hudson was thirsty, so he was right there waiting for a drink. When I put the bowl down he started, got about two licks in, and Rudy came running from the kitchen and pushed him out. There was no growling or anything, he just puts his head in and gently shoves Hudson away. Hudson sat politely by the bowl, waiting for Rudy to finish. This broke my heart. It seemed so mean, so I filled a smaller, second bowl in the kitchen and put it down, calling Hudson over. He came and eagerly drank it for about thirty seconds. Rudy then looked up from the first bowl, and came over to the second bowl, and pushed Hudson out. Hudson walked away and laid down by the door to nap. I guess he was done already or close to it, but sheesh. It was mean. Rudy had maybe three licks from that bowl and was done. He didn't need to drink there. The other bowl still has at leat two litres of water left. I know that dogs are dogs and that this is their thing, and probably Hudson doesn't see it the same way, but I feel like the poor guy is being pushed around, and it's tugging at my heart like crazy. I'm sure getting involved would just muddy things and cause more problems, but I really wanted to grab Rudy, put him in a sit/stay, and let Hudson finish his drink. I guess dogs don't really look at fairness and turn taking, but it's killing the elementary school teacher in me that they don't. |
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| I'd feel the same as you. I want things to be 'fair'. I don't know what the answer is, probably just leave them be. Oh, but it is so hard to watch it happen. peg |
You could separate the bowls even more and when Rudi makes a move on Hudson's, give him a quick "no" command, whatever you use. Beyond that they have to work it out. One day Hudson is going to have enough of being bullied and will let Rudi know. In the mean time he's content as he is........Harry is the low guy here but every once in awhile lets the others know he is standing his ground.......and they back off. (lately he just calls their bluff and ignornes the growls and lip curls, LOL) One OES breeder/trainer/rescuer said the best thing you could do is to go make a pot of tea and let them work it out.  You might invest in a nice new pot, you may be using it often. |
| i have this with my boys dreamer will push duff out of the way for many things like loving and treats i feel so bad sometimes for duff but then when they are playing duff is always the bully so i guess it is even |
| I sometimes have that problem with Violet and I tell her to stop...the other dogs are a bit afraid of her. She listens when I tell her to stop...so it works out. I do sometimes have to keep an eye on her because she will pick a day and seem like she will pick on just one of the Aussies...I step in if I think she is pushing her luck..not physically, I just tell her to stop it. |
| I think the first thing I would do is get a couple of large water bowls. Here in the desert we use ice buckets - the larger kind that you would use to ice a couple of bottles. We never have a dry water bowl in our home. Aggressive behavior is never tolerated. I have 4 dogs so when aggression of any sort arises, the culprit gets reprimanded. On the occasion when I can't sort out who the naughty one is, everybody gets a minor correction. In our home if they want to be aggressive toward another pack member, they need to do it out of my hearing and sight. Otherwise I consider it bad behavior and deal with it accordingly. |
| This wasn't aggression, it's just the normal hierarchy at work. One will always be the boss, the other more submissive. When both are strong willed and neither backs down - That's when you have trouble! And it does happen. I know people who live with gates/penning and keep the 2 separate in the home. That's a case of a human being dedicated to both dogs, and not willing to rehome one of them. But this is true power - violent fights, blood, ripped ears and puncture wounds, etc. Or if you have 2 very submissive dogs, you can have just as many problems. Neither has the confidence needed to let the other submissive feel confident and relaxed, so you have a whole set of neurotic behaviors to deal with. Submissive dogs WANT a leader, so they can defer any issues that come up to them. Being the follower suits them, and makes them comfortable. And this status is always fluctuating. Adding new dogs, aging in the current pack, all affects the flow of power in any given canine group. Unless you have a very distinct dominant and submissive, things tend to change over time. Young dogs grow up and "move up" if that's their nature, old rulers move down or "retire" a bit. But, common sense needs to play a part - and our sense of "fair" certainly plays in. Regardless of the dogs and where they are, You are #1, your house, your rules always win out. My dogs all eat separate - feed is measured, different dogs have different needs, and lately many are on meds and need to get only their stuff! Besides that though, they each have a spot they eat totally free from outside (other dog or even the cat  ) causing any pressure. Who wants to eat with someone staring or hovering - even if they are 10-20 feet away. Dogs "feel" that pressure, way more than we do. And we have 2 waters, in totally different parts of the house. That water behavior of Hudson and Rudy is a part of our house. There is a very distinct water drinking order, and they are fine with it. They actually expect it! This is normal for them. The other may show impatience or whine even, but they rarely leave and go drink out of the other bowl. And, if you decide to intervene, make sure it actually happens. If you start to stop the 1st one, but then they are allowed to push back in and nudge the other out, you have just proved you are less of a leader. In other words, if you're not prepared to go all the way, it's best to just let them be. The last thing you want to do is mess up a natural behavior, and demote yourself at the same time...then you are asking for trouble down the road. |
| We have several water bowls through the house. My female is the one who pushes the male out of the way, and he sits back and waits. No fighting. Just his sad face looking at me like, hey she is drinking all my water! Of course, then he wants to drink out of the bowl she drank from, she wants to drink out of his bowl, and it goes on. Never any fighting, not even a slight scuffle. Just that whatever one has, is better than what the other has! Like kids I guess. Always wanting what the other has! |
| In my experience resource guarding leads to other negative behaviors. I correct whichever dog is doing an active behavior that I don't like - it's not about defending the other dog. My dogs travel with me and we are around many other dogs in various situations, so I won't allow any aggressive/possessive/label-it-as-you-wish behavior. While I understand the source of the behavior, I won't tolerate it. They understand who is alpha- and who isn't!  I do agree that if you are not prepared to follow through on everything you've asked of your dog, you make it harder for them to adopt the behavior you are trying to teach. |
got sheep wrote: And, if you decide to intervene, make sure it actually happens. If you start to stop the 1st one, but then they are allowed to push back in and nudge the other out, you have just proved you are less of a leader. In other words, if you're not prepared to go all the way, it's best to just let them be. The last thing you want to do is mess up a natural behavior, and demote yourself at the same time...then you are asking for trouble down the road. Very true. Quite honestly, my natural inclination is to let the pack sort things out itself. But that was when I had a pack consisting solely of closely related dogs with easy going temperaments. And it worked well. My rescue dog's temperament leaves much to be desired and if I didn't stay on top of her rude little butt she would push her way into all kinds of things. And push my other dogs out of the way. The hard stares, the pushy body language, teeth and growling included. When she pulls that crap on my senior girls, especially, I have to stifle a real urge to strangle her. Never a good place to be mentally when correcting bad behavior   I've learned to take a deep breath as I as unemotionally as possible put her in her place. Usually, since where she wants to be is as close to me as possible, that merely means moving her away.She's finally, finally beginning to get the picture. My message to her is this: I OWN those dogs, not you. Mess with them, you mess with me, bitch. Behave and share like a good little wench and you can hang out with the rest of us. This way her rudeness doesn't get rewarded. To the contrary, it's counter productive. And the one thing she is not is stupid. It's just another form of resource guarding. Me, the water bowl, whatever. Hopefully she'll straighten out. I really hate tea. Kristine |
| Dawn and I are on the same page as usual-- I was already mentally planning my answer to type out and found that she had already pretty much done it for me. I don't consider this aggressive behavior either, just d!@k behavior. All three of mine will calmly bounce another one from a bowl. The pecking order seems to vary but it's all respectful and no one ever gets upset. The one that gets bumped usually looks up like "Oh, that's right, it's not my turn right now." Of course, we have three bowls so they usually just wander over to another one if it's important or they'll wait. We have the no-spill bowls and my bigger water problem is that Bear likes to sleep with his head on one of the bowls. Naturally, that's the one that everyone always wants to drink out of first. Owen will stand there and squeak, trying to wake Bear up to let him know he wants to drink and Bear gets annoyed that he's being bothered and, it seems, he doesn't even realize he's fallen asleep on the bowl. Other times, he'll hook his paw around the bowl and scoot over, keeping the bowl as his pillow the whole time. I've seen him roll over and scare the heck out of himself when he dips his face in the water. Ultimately, they're all little weirdos. They have their own way of doing this kind of thing. No one ever pushes me out of my food bowl so as long as I have that, we're in good shape. |
Mad Dog wrote: I OWN those dogs, not you. Mess with them, you mess with me, bitch. Behave and share like a good little wench and you can hang out with the rest of us. This had me laughing so hard! So true, but so direct. I can think of other situations where this quote will come in handy  . |
| How old and Healthy is Hudson? It probably is just be the normal pack thing - but if Hudson is continually being pushed out of the pack - it may just be that some weakness or illness is being picked up by Rudy. Not trying to worry you or anything and you'll be way more experienced than myself in these things, but it could be something to consider? |
jcc9797 wrote: Mad Dog wrote: I OWN those dogs, not you. Mess with them, you mess with me, bitch. Behave and share like a good little wench and you can hang out with the rest of us. This had me laughing so hard! So true, but so direct. I can think of other situations where this quote will come in handy .  RLOL! ohhhh, I know where and when I need to say that!!! |
| I am new here and have a question maybe someone can help me with. I have two Sheepies. My male "Goose" we have had since he was a puppy. We got his Sister over a year and a half later. They get along great aside from a few small tiffs. We always fed them side by side and then "She" started getting snippy after a few months and we then began letting him eat first. She must wait her turn which is not a problem. The problem is now when it is time for her to eat she constantly barks while she is eating. I have pulled her bowl away and corrected her by saying no. She must wait patiently and then I give her back her bow. It is not stopping though. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! |
| Where is Goose while your girl is eating? It sounds to me like she is worried about losing her much anticipated meal and is warning him off with a lot of talk while she eats. I would try separating them more while she eats. If that's not it maybe she's just really excited to finally get her meal after the wait. How old is she? |
| Goose lays around an island in our dining room. She cannot see him but he is not too far away, They are both the same age "3". They are real bother and sister. This morning I tried feeding them at the same time only like you mentioned I seperated them further away from each other. She did fine until he was finished eating then she let out a bark. I picked her bowl up promptly and told her "no". I waited for her to sit there quietly for a few moments and then I gave her bowl back and she ate with no more interuptions. We will see if the same works tonight at dinner time. |
| That sounds like some progess. It does sound like she's just getting a bark in as a warning first rather than waiting and then possibly having to fight for her meal. I'd try putting them even further apart if you can. It's healthier for them if they can eat in a less stressed way. Every dog has a different tolerance for closeness when eating. I've had dogs who could eat side by side and others that had to be in separate rooms. I feed both my dogs at the same time but have one round the other side of the island bar out of sight too. I am still there to supervise though.  |
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