Ecco's first herding lesson
    Surprisingly, she was very self-controlled during the exercises that we did. She REALLY wanted to play with the sheep, but was able to get calm enough to do a relaxed trot around the pen. It reminds me so much of working horses, at least right now, so I feel comfortable with it. I think Ecco liked it too, though she was a little confused over why we would present her with such enticing toys and then only let her walk around them. It was great fun, though. Right now Ecco is doing a celebratory romp around the yard. |
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| woohoo - Lucky Ecco! Control will get to be a huge issue...as they get hyped they lose control. So starting out calm is not a bad thing.  Pictures?? We are on a sheet of ice covered with a couple feet of snow and temps at -14F ....NO herding even being considered up here  |
I took the camera, but forgot to take pictures  It's super cold here, too. Not that cold, though. My toes were frozen together. Luckily, the sheep were in the barn. |
| Well done Ecco. Tiggy forsook almost all self control in favor of chasing the sheep. I could get her to stop and drop but that was about it until she got tired and some semblance of sanity returned. |
| Well, we finished off our third day of herding today and I have to say, I was a little frustrated. Not with Ecco. She did beautifully. I was more frustrated with the class as a whole. When we started the class it was just us and two other dogs. As I understood it, we were paying a little more for a more private class setting. I was ok with that, especially to start us out, because I felt like more time with the instructor to learn the basics was needed. So, our first two classes that was what we got. Today, however, it turned out that TWO more students came to class at the same time. One student brought her husband, who wanted to talk my ear off for the entire two hours, making it incredibly difficult for me to hear the instructor at any given point. Then, because of the extra students I was frustrated our first time in the ring, and I know my tension was evident to Ecco, because she kept trying to slip past me to get at the sheep  when we were doing round pen exercises, and subsequently nearly dragged me across the pen on my BUTT. (Ecco thinking, "Yay! I'm a sled dog, too!") Meanwhile, the other students, who have little, bitty 25 -30 lb dogs didn't seem to appreciate my struggle. Chatty Guy offered advice from outside the ring on how I should get that under control Okay, so, I did eventually compose myself and we got a couple good flanks in and then had to quit for that turn. Ecco and I stepped out of the ring while other students went. I realized I was on edge, which was causing Ecco to be on edge, and so I settled myself and determined we would have a better time on our next go....and we did. The second time in Ecco and I were both much calmer and more focused. She was obeying me and I was not being dragged on my rear through sheep poop. ...But here was where my irritation came back because...That was it. We only got two shots at the ring in a TWO HOUR class. Now, I don't mind sharing my time, but I feel like we got 15-20 minutes of ring time and the class was still $30. Is that standard or am I just cheap? I am underemployed right now, so maybe sheep herding is out of our league for the time being.  |
kerrym wrote: ...But here was where my irritation came back because...That was it. We only got two shots at the ring in a TWO HOUR class. Now, I don't mind sharing my time, but I feel like we got 15-20 minutes of ring time and the class was still $30. Is that standard or am I just cheap? I am underemployed right now, so maybe sheep herding is out of our league for the time being. I plead cranky. Please ignore the previous rant.  |
| Consider yourself ignored I was hoping some others would reply regarding cost. I have fairly informal class with a friend who has slightly more cooperative sheep than ours. I only pay a minimal fee - we call it my contribution to the feed or vet bill  I only pay $15, but I don't think your $30 is out of the ordinary.Some class sessions are hugely frustrating, I can tell you that for sure . But then a good one happens and it restores faith! |
| I can't comment on cost over there. Here I pay $30 but its fairly informal and there are as many people in the class as turn up on the day. I'm not sure how that will work as we've only been to one class so far, other than the beginners day which cost $80 and was limited to 10 or 12 dogs, can't quite remember. It was a whole day though. Mixed theory and practical. My last class was totally frustrating too. Tiggy was mental and went in too hard consequently a scared sheep ran into the gate and got a blood nose. Tiggy bit her own tongue, blood everywhere. And then when I intervened regarding her sticking up for herself when another dog had a go at her she broke my leg (luckily not bad just a compression fracture). Now that I've had hip surgery it's going to be minimum 3 months before we can go back to herding class.  Originally it was 6 weeks and I thought that was bad. |
| Poor you! Now I feel even worse about being cranky I realized soon after I wrote it that I was just in a bad mood and needed to suck it up. The class is really fun. I think I just woke up on the wrong side of the bed that morning. I realized halfway through class, too, that I need to get more practice on my dry work during the week and then the time we spend in class might be less frustrating for both Ecco and me. So, I was also cranky with myself for not spending the time during the week to get the dry work done. This week we've been practicing at home on Ecco's down-stay and tomorrow I'm going out to buy a little rake for us to practice with. |
| Ah, we all have bad days and rant. But I think its fair to ask about current going rates for classes and how much time and attention you should expect from the instructor and how many times on the sheep you are entitled to. |
| And if you can get the chatty guy to be quiet, the time you are out of the ring is really not a waste at all. When we had classes at our farm, and the instructor was working with all the other students, I learned an incredible amount of things. Stuff I would have never picked up on if I only paid attention when it was our time in the ring. Look at the dogs - how do they interact with the sheep - the eye power, the posture, do they bark or are they silent, do they head or go for a more driving style? The humans - where are they in relation to the dog and to the stock? how does that affect how things go? How do they work with their dog? What level of control do they have? The sheep - see how they react to different dogs, and see if you can figure out why they are different with other dogs. Where is pressure applied best - rear, side, front and to which sheep? who's the leader and how do the other sheep react? ...just a bit to get you started |
| I agree. When I can listen, I learn a lot from watching other handlers and their dogs. I think next time I'l just say, "Excuse me, I'd like to watch/listen to this." Sometimes I'm too polite and let people just go on, even if it's inconvenient at the time. Now, you said something about "do they head"...can you explain what that means, because I think that's what Ecco does. All the other dogs are looking at the sheeps' rears and Ecco is right up looking eye to eye with them. I mean, she's not ahead of them, she's by their shoulders, but clearly looking them in the eye. That made it hard for her to get the idea of flanking them when she has them up against the wall of the round pen. So, I've been trying to practice getting her around the sheep a bit more. |
| What Dawn said. My herding instructor, though we're on hiatus at the moment and focusing on agility, INSISTS we come early and stay late and watch as many different teams work as possible. Frankly, I often learn more watching than doing. Or, rather, I learn from watching and then I can use it when doing. As for chatty people....be prepared to be a little rude. Stare intently at team in arena. Don't give eye contact. Mutter the bare necessities of 'hm' in response, if at all. Offer no conversation and just generally be as boring as a tree stump and they'll find some other person to listen to their endless stream of yakking. That kind of disruption always puts me in a bad mood too. In our summer agility classes we'll some times offer each other constructive criticism. But we're good friends, always rooting for each other, clapping and cheering when a team that's been struggling gets it right, so it's taken in that spririt, and filtered through the instuctor so the blind don't end up leading the blind  What does your herding instructor do when you're offered unsolicited advice? Mind you, some people just don't take advice well. No idea if you fall into that group or not  but I have a friend who does agility and obedience with her rescue OES and if you tell her anything other than she's wonderful and her dog walks on water - except when things go wrong, at which point she blames it on an endless array of imagined bad experiences the dog must have had in the past by virtue of being a rescue dog  (she is one of the least fluid, murkiest handlers I've ever seen, I don't know how her dog has the slightest clue what she wants but she's a fourlegged saint who keeps trying so maybe she does walk on water ) she blows up at you. I've given up trying to help her whatsoever although taping her at an agility trial a few weeks ago I finally couldn't stand it anymore and told her to please stop yelling at her dog. So she yelled at me instead. But I noticed in the next few runs the yelling at the dog thing was toned way down. So maybe it was worth it. Some times the unsolicited advice is well intentioned and actually on target. Though early in the game it can be hard to tell what's what. And if you're in a competitive environment or you feel you have something to prove, it can be even harder to take advice. Hopefully your instructor will be the one giving the majority of it since that is part of what I presume you pay her for? Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: What does your herding instructor do when you're offered unsolicited advice? Kristine My instructor ignored him and focused on what I was doing, which is exactly what I should have done. I realize that my frustration at that moment probably had to do with being dragged across the ring on my butt...which could have been prevented if I'd been more focused on what Ecco and I were supposed to be doing. That first round was just a bust, and that's what really got me upset. I would have liked at least two good goes at the ring. Of course, I realize now that if I had just said, "Hey, before we go, do you mind if Ecco and I take another stab at it?" She probably would have been amenable to that. I can be stubborn and hotheaded, but I like to think that once I get a chance to look at myself, I straighten out. Unfortunately, it's always a delayed reaction... Anyway, Ecco LOVES it, and I am enjoying myself, too. I just have to figure out how to keep paying for it...anyone need to hire a writer? |
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