Can an OES be born without a tail?

David and I had a robust debate on whether or not OES could actually be born without tails. Your responses will determine the winner!
Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org  
Years ago I had one born with a 1/2 inch stump, but he was born very small (it was a litter of 13) and he passed away at 2 days of age.
No tail is a genetic defect like it would be in any tailed breed. All instances that I've ever heard of happening were very similar to what Amber described: born small and died very young.
I agree with you Jill. In my mind the fact that he was born without a tail was in essence, a deformity. In my opinion he did not develop properly and ultimately would not/could not survive.

It is funny how our Canadian breed standard says, "When not naturally born bobtails, puppies should be docked........This would lead people reading this to assume that this is something that can happen under normal circumstances, meaning healthy pups can be born without a tail.

This is an interesting topic. Any other breeders out there have a pup born without a tail and it survived?
I googled it and I found something :D

TAIL: Customarily docked or natural bobtail.

This is on a Icelandic website.
Non in Aska's litter was born bobtail.
In Iceland tail docking is banned.
I think it would be no different than a person being born
with an extra digit or one less digit. It happens, but it's
abnormal. So, yes it can happen, just like a calf with two
heads. Just about anything is possible, just not probable.

Shellie
I have a 1/2 OES (dad) mom was a Golden,who was born without a tail. Out of 7 puppies one other one did not have a tail,a male. Both puppies were turned over to a bully rescue because no one wanted them. Mickey is now 11 months old and only has one other problem ,the outside toe on one rear leg is nonweight bearing. It is also very floppy and might have to be removed but it only bothers her when she first gets up after lying down. She limps for about three steps then seems to be fine,like it needs to straighten out. She was seen by 2 vets and had xrays of hips, legs and paws.
Old English Sheepdog Breed Standard per American Kennel Club (AKC)
http://www.akc.org/breeds/old_english_sheepdog/

Neck, Topline, Body
Neck-- Fairly long and arched gracefully. Topline-- Stands lower at the withers than at the loin with no indication of softness or weakness. Attention is particularly called to this topline as it is a distinguishing characteristic of the breed. Body-- Rather short and very compact, broader at the rump than at the shoulders, ribs well sprung and brisket deep and capacious. Neither slab-sided nor barrel-chested. The loin is very stout and gently arched.
Tail-- Docked close to the body, when not naturally bob tailed.
The above post was me. (sorry, forgot to log in) :oops:

My reply was to "OldieAska" -- things look pretty similar in the states.
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