OES and children
But I'm concerned how puppy will get along with my 1-year old baby. We had a dog that passed away last month  (different breed) and she was great with a baby, always friendly-playing with her like they are best friends. I noticed that on some rescue web sites it says "no children please". Why is that?I read a lot about how OES are friendly around and never aggressive around children. Any thoughts on this? thanks |
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| We don't have kids ourselves, but we do have many many young nieces, nephews and our sheep dog Mady is extremely tolerant and gentle with children. She is very fond of kids and she seems to just know to be extra gentle with young toddlers and babies. We also run into many kids on walks who think she's a giant teddy bear, just this week there was a 14 month baby who was thrilled with her and kept grabbing handfuls of her fur and pulling. Mady was in a down position and just lay there and didn't complain. I'm sure others can offer more specific advice, but I think you should research breeders carefully and find one who is breeding for gentle temperaments and is exposing them to children from the start. |
| If you get a puppy remember that OES are herding dogs, and this comes naturally to them. So they may nip to get their herd, in this case your children, to go were they want them to, or to get attention to play with them. I have 3 kids, 2 labs and an OES 9 month old puppy. We rescued her so she wasnt taught from the start not to do this but she is quickly learning. She does still "nip" once in awhile at your hand to get you to play with her or at my other dogs to get them to go where she wants them to. Also they are very playful and I dont think they understand their size and strength so they may knock the baby over a time or two. BUT they do love children and I have never seen a sheepie become aggressive in a mean way to kids. They just sometimes may over power a small child. If you do decide to get one, I would suggest a puppy training class to help teach him/her basic commands early. This will save you headaches later when they are 80 plus pounds. But they are a very sweet and smart breed and I dont think you can go wrong with a sheepie. One more thing, please make sure you will have the time to properly care for a sheepie. This was the problem the people we rescued Ryleigh had. They had a 4 yr old and a 9 month old baby. They didnt have time to care for Ryleigh so she was thrown in the backyard and forgotten. She was so matted and full of stickers we had to shave her all the way to her skin. Sheepies do take a lot of grooming if you are going to keep them in full coat. Sorry if this is more info then you wanted. If you do get one, you will be loved that is for sure. Good luck. |
| thanks for all the info! I need another advice: should we get a rescue dog instead of a puppy (considering we have 1 year old) |
Thats another tough choice.  With a puppy you will know what you are getting in a way as far as training and background. For the most part a puppy hasnt had the neglect and abuse some rescues have had. BUT with a rescue you will be out of the "puppy stage", maybe less chewing, may get one already house trained, and so on. But you will need to do a REALLY good background check to see why they were turned into rescue to start with. You will need to becareful about food agression (if they had been starved) or fear of hands (if they had been beat) and such with a baby around. Ryleigh was a rescue, she was 7 months when we got her. We got very lucky with her that she really has no bad habits outside of the normal puppy issues. ie had to house train her (still has accidents 2 months later) and still chews up things if we arent careful. But she is so sweet and loving and I wouldnt change a thing.  |
| Hi, Maxine, our puppy, just tormented our then 5 year old for months with the nipping and chasing. I laugh now when I think of all of the furniture jumping my daughter did during that time. The whole family (5 total) endured nips and ripped jeans until we started puppy class. I think Maxine started to realize that she wasn't the boss of the house, and had an AHA moment, "What?!? I'm supposed to do what you want me too?" Maxine has calmed down tremendously, but it took about 6-7 months. She is great with all of my kids. As far as a rescue? I would do it only if it were a puppy, you don't know a dogs backstory and it can be very dangerous. We tried to foster an Akita before we got our OES, and my husband was bit in the face.... Best of luck to you and hope you find the perfect family member! Hair in your face |
| For an Old English Sheepdog, I'd wait until your baby is older whether you decide to go with a puppy or a rescue. Puppies are notorious nippers and it can sometimes take awhile to stop. Kids can easily get hurt, not to mention get knocked down by that strong herding instinct (and just the fact that they're big goofy puppies). With a rescue, even if the dog is older, you really don't know what you're getting. You either have the same issues as with a puppy (nipping and herding) or you may wind up with a lot of training issues that can take a lot of time and patience. With a really young baby, do you want to even have to worry about that? I'm not trying to discourage you from the breed, I just want you to have a great experience and be prepared for what you might face. I have no kids but my second OES was such a nipping puppy, there is no way he could've been around a baby-- ever. It's a chance I wouldn't have ever considered since my own arms and hands were covered in bruises and scabs! Now, both of them have settled down and they're good with kids of all ages but with my older one, every once in awhile he'll meet a kid that he thinks really needs a good head butting. It's actually more like a slow push but he's relentless. They're a great breed but I think you're best off waiting until a kid can kind of hold his own with a bigger dog. These guys can be full contact! |
| The first thing I would say is that no dog will ever fulfill the described "never aggressive around children". Its simply not realistic. I grew up with Sheepdogs; I was born into a house that had them, and we had puppies while I was still very young. Of those 3 puppies, one bit my 3 year old sister. Twice. So no, its not at all realistic to say that these dogs are never aggressive around children. That being said, if you get your puppy from a reputable breeder, someone with a history of breeding dogs that show an excellent temperment, as judged within the show ring by professionals that are trained to evaluate our breed, then you stand a very good chance of getting a puppy with little possibility of aggression. Many people mistake "herding" for aggression. These dogs WILL herd your children. Ours herded myself and my two sisters. But if properly trained, herding need not involve biting or mouthing. I think what may be the most important thing to ask yourself is if you have a one year old child, do you have the time for a puppy and all the training its going to require? These aren't the easiest dogs to train; they can be willful, distracted, and spastic. We've done a ton of training with ours, and they are AWESOME with kids. We had our wedding reception at our home, and there were 6 children in attendance all between the ages of 1 year and 7 years old. And the dogs played with the kids all day long, with no incidents. I didn't even supervise them; usually a big no no, but I know my girls and I knew this was not an issue for them. It can be done; and done happily. My fondest childhood memories are of our sheepdogs. But you can't even pretend it won't be work, because it will. It will be worth it, but its going to be a chore. |
| Both my OES's were great with children but my girls were 5 and 7...I waited until they were old enough to help care for a dog. I have 2 grandchildren 4 mths and 2 1/2...lots of time watching my two tibetans with 2 yr. old...one minute she loves them and the next minute she fusses at them...being 2. The dogs are in love and very devoted to both...I think you have to ask if you want to raise a puppy with a 1 yr old...lots of work and time plus you will always have to supervise. Sometimes I just gate the dogs so I can do other things. I always gate them when the 2 yr. old eats as I find both dogs want to help her eat. I am very careful the toddler eats up at the table and doesn't carry food around and I wipe her hands etc...So many young children are bitten by sweet dogs because of food...I have always loved having my fur children but found it so much more enjoyable when the girls were older. Maggie my 2 yr. old tibetan was born a month after Zoe, 2 yr old grandaughter...I can't imagine training Maggie and take care of a toddler 24/7the first year...I was exhausted training Maggie. When my girls were older and we got Daisey our OES they participated in training her, feeding her and taking walks with us...just make sure you really want to raise a puppy with a toddler... |
| in addition to what lhall15 said; realize that raising your "puppy" will go on for about 2 years. Many people think that a dog will be adult when its adult sized (about 1 year) but many sheepdogs continue to grow right through that second year, and certainly don't "mature" until at least 2 years old. So be prepared to essentially have to children those first couple of years! |
| Have you ever been around an Old English Sheepdog or merely researched them on-line? In some places you will read that OES are everything from the perfect "nanny dog" to them being quite aggressive. It really depends on the dog as well as the family. As mentioned, a puppy from a reputable breeder will have a much better temperament than one found from some fly-by-night breeder on Puppyfind, Next Day Pets, Puppies For You or similar sites. Regardless of the breed, a young child should never be left alone with a dog. Period. I take issue with people who allow their kids to pull the dog's hair or climb on them like they are stuffed animals. Most people who have young children and Old English Sheepdogs and have done so without incident have previously owned OES. Waiting until your child is at least 4 or 5 yrs. old would be ideal. The #1 reason for OES being surrendered to rescue is an injury to a child, either from a nip or bite or being knocked down during play. As far as a rescued OES with small children, we don't recommend it. For a more OES-savvy family an exceptional rescue dog can be a good match. Remember, not all rescues come from homes where they were abused or neglected. Many dogs recently have been surrendered due to financial problems and grew up with kids in the home. The rescue or foster family will evaluate each dog to determine the best home for a dog. Most OES coming into rescue now are older; it is quite rare for a puppy to come into rescue. Puppies from good breeders do NOT end up in rescue. If a puppy does become available through rescue the breeder is generally unknown or does not care what happens to animals that they should be taking responsibility for. If I had children and was determined to get a sheepdog puppy it would be from a reputable OESCA breeder. You have the best chance of your pup having a great disposition as well as being healthy and physically sound. Please do more research before adding an Old English Sheepdog to your family. They can be a quirky breed that is sometimes stubborn and do require training. And a great deal of grooming. No one here wants to discourage anyone from obtaining an OES but we do try to help people see ownership of one from a different perspective. If you still decide to add one to your family, we're here to help in any way we can. Nita Midwest OES Rescue, Inc. http://www.midwestoesrescue.com/Adoptin ... eepdog.htm |
| maybe you should consider an older dog closer to 2 or 3 years old. Another thought might be maybe a breeder who has and older dog they are willing to "be adopted" The personality of the dog would be set, you would have a better idea of the temperament, and the dog would already be underway in terms of training. I had great luck with my rescue Bella who was 2, she was quick to train and I have had dogs a long time so I didn't let her get away with anything from the get go. She does want to herd the cat and my other dog and that would be a issue no matter her age. We also have no babies around to tempt her. Maybe Ms J could give some insight since I think she has some "little ones" at home. |
Just to prove its not impossible; but my mother will attest to just how much hard work it was! My mother with me, newborn, and our first sheepdog, Elsa. 1971  Same dog with me at 4 years old. |
| ADORABLE PICS!!!!! I would definitely take what everyone above said into consideration. Having a newborn and puppy was never hard. The dog never gets to the baby since baby is always in the crib or in mom's arms... ...but it is definitely a challenge when they start to crawl. Those sharp puppy teeth ...and they are razor sharp... want to grab everything in your lo's hands ...and then wants to grab/bite their fingers just because they're moving them around. So the puppy is innocently playing, but it sure never comes off that way to small children. I think my 4 yo had the most issues with a puppy than my toddler. My 4yo couldn't move w/o being knocked down and was scared. My toddler may have cried a few times from those sharp teeth, but he's such a trooper that it bothered us more than him. It can be done, but it just takes a lot of work. It's easy to say "oh, I can handle more work and always being alert" ...but it really is a lot of work to make sure dog and toddler aren't "up and going" at the same time. Better if you have carpet!!! Overall, I thought it was a lot easier to have the puppy first (our first oes) ...and then have a newborn come around when the dog had some manners and was house broken ...than to have a puppy and baby/toddler at the same time! |
Darth Snuggle wrote: Just to prove its not impossible; but my mother will attest to just how much hard work it was! My mother with me, newborn, and our first sheepdog, Elsa. 1971 Wow! And look at the beautifully groomed full coat on her! Gorgeous! I bet you miss her a lot.  |
Baba wrote: Darth Snuggle wrote: Just to prove its not impossible; but my mother will attest to just how much hard work it was! My mother with me, newborn, and our first sheepdog, Elsa. 1971 Wow! And look at the beautifully groomed full coat on her! Gorgeous! I bet you miss her a lot. I was 6 years old when she got cancer and died pretty young. I think I miss her puppy more; we kept one of her litter, and thats the dog I most remember from our childhood.  |
My pup was 6 months old when my second son was born. From the day he came home the OES was with him. Sleeping under his crib, leaning against his high chair, trying to figure out if he could stop the Jonny Jump because it made him dizzy, following him whether he was carried or crawling. It was the OES that came to get me when my son leaned to far and fell feet over head into the toy box.  It was impossible to keep the dog away from his baby. They were partners in crime and would sneak off together at any chance. It was one of those sneaky days when I looked back to check the baby and he was gone (so was the dog). As I ran around the corner into the living room and their favorite spot, I stopped dead. What I saw was my little boy on his knees holding both of the dogs ears in his hands. The dog was in a play bow position. My thought was OMG, he's going to hurt the dog's ears and the dog will bite him. I didn't want to panic or rush and scare the dog, so I started forwad very carefully hoping to grab the dogs collar. As I started to tell my son to let go the situation stopped me in my tracks again. As my son held on to those big hairy ears, my pup who was approx 17 months old, slowly lifted his head and shoulders until my son was standing up. He then started to back up one step at a time to match the steps my son would take. The dog was teaching my baby to walk. After that day my son would throw his arm over the dog and use him to balance while he furthered his walking education. The dog would match his steps to my son. Malcolm was wonderful to my children. He did herd them, but only by rounding them up and pushing them back to where they belonged. The kids would complain but not without a giggle. "Mom, Malcolm is hurding us again". The new neighbor thought she heard the children say they were being hurt. She called the police. Thank goodness I knew the commander and he knew the dog. It's difficult to have any breed of puppy and an infant at the same time. Someone isn't going to get the attention that is required. I was very very lucky. |
| Wow, what a great story! I would have to agree with everything that has been said so far. I have an almost 3 year old (its his Birthday on Wednesday) OES, and he hasn't actually been around children very often so the first time he had a 4 year old launch herself at him I was quite concerned, especially considering how "bouncy" Harvey is! Needless to say, he was brilliant with her - very gentle and he let her tug, tease and tickle! Since then, he is fequently around my nephews and other children. He is great with them. My oldest nephew, who is now 6 had a real fear of dogs. When he was first introduced to Harvey he would run to the sofa and put his feet up whilst grabbing on to the nearest adult. Now, every time he comes to visit, he wants to take Harvey home with him! We have a min pin too, but its the big old softy that he loves so much! Everyone has already mentioned the herding thing and I would just add to be especially careful on stairs. There have been a couple of occassions where we have almost been knocked down them as he races to get in front. They naturally herd you whenever you are near them so this is something to think about. Another thing that comes to mind is (and this is quite embarrassing), in cold weather we put a t-shirt or jacket on our min pin as he gets cold quickly. Harvey tends to pick him up and carry him around by his clothes. It might seem quite cute, but Bruno doesn't appreciate it  |
| thank you all, for your responses Now I 'm even more confused. It seems like it would be smart to wait few years before getting OES. I always wanted to see my baby growing up with a dog, so she could have a friend. We got our shar pei 4 years ago, and then we had a baby. And it was such a joy to see them playing together. Never had any problems with my shar pei, she was great to my daughter. I always liked OES and thought that some day in a future we will get a second dog. Unfortunately our shar pei passed away last month, and it feels so lonely without her, so we thought maybe it's time to fulfill our dream of owning OES. http://public.fotki.com/bellaleona/matilda/ |
| After reading all this thread, this is my personal take on it: I think if you are experienced dog owners, and you are able to commit the time and resources, I don't see why you shouldn't get an OES. If it's your dream to get an OES, and have your child grow up with one, then why not? Some of the best stories and most cherished memories in this thread have been from people who grew up, or who's children are growing up with sheepdogs. I think the main consideration is very careful research into where you get your sheepdog from. If you have puppy experience, and will be able to commit the time and energy to raising a puppy. A puppy should give you better control over the child-friendly temperament you would want with careful selection of a breeder. From my own experience with our sheepdog Mady, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Mady's breeder for someone looking for child-friendly sheepdogs. Our breeder has two small children, and all her litters spend their first 8-12 weeks growing up in the household with little kids. |
| I would recommend getting the Old English Sheepdog and passing on the kids. |
Sheepdogma wrote: My pup was 6 months old when my second son was born. From the day he came home the OES was with him. Sleeping under his crib, leaning against his high chair, trying to figure out if he could stop the Jonny Jump because it made him dizzy, following him whether he was carried or crawling. It was the OES that came to get me when my son leaned to far and fell feet over head into the toy box. It was impossible to keep the dog away from his baby. They were partners in crime and would sneak off together at any chance. It was one of those sneaky days when I looked back to check the baby and he was gone (so was the dog). As I ran around the corner into the living room and their favorite spot, I stopped dead. What I saw was my little boy on his knees holding both of the dogs ears in his hands. The dog was in a play bow position. My thought was OMG, he's going to hurt the dog's ears and the dog will bite him. I didn't want to panic or rush and scare the dog, so I started forwad very carefully hoping to grab the dogs collar. As I started to tell my son to let go the situation stopped me in my tracks again. As my son held on to those big hairy ears, my pup who was approx 17 months old, slowly lifted his head and shoulders until my son was standing up. He then started to back up one step at a time to match the steps my son would take. The dog was teaching my baby to walk. my eyes got teary |
ButtersStotch wrote: I would recommend getting the Old English Sheepdog and passing on the kids. A woman after my own heart!!!!  |
Darth Snuggle wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: I would recommend getting the Old English Sheepdog and passing on the kids. A woman after my own heart!!!! This was our policy too. But the poster here is too late! |
| I have great memories of growing up with a sheepdog. To think of everything Oliver put up with from Melissa and myself I just wanted to make sure that anyone reading this knows any cautions posters are giving about raising babies/children with an OES pretty much apply to all dogs and not just OES...except maybe for those warnings about big bums  |
| hmmm, my sheepie never needed money for shopping, didn't ask for a mastercard, didn't take my car and never ever lied to me.  although my youngest after being raised with a sheepie always demanded affection.  i am thankful she doesn't wiggle her bum quite the same. |
Amanda P wrote: I just wanted to make sure that anyone reading this knows any cautions posters are giving about raising babies/children with an OES pretty much apply to all dogs and not just OES...except maybe for those warnings about big bums Exactly. Any dog with small children requires supervision. Any dog requires training. Any dog can bite, given the right circumstances. Like David said, I have seen Mady around all kinds of kids, all ages, and think that she is marvellous with kids. Having said that, I still would not leave her alone with a baby or toddler. Not because I don't trust my sheepie, but because I don't trust the kids! |
| I think a huge difference is... OES' are large and some built very muscular. Kobuck as a puppy was able to take 200lb guys down by just running up to them WHILE these guys "thought" they were prepared for it (but he is a lot more muscular than most imagine). Yuki on the otherhand is not built like that and only charges up to people ...but then stops in front of them. Kobuck can flip any 0-4 yo across the room and cause concussions if we're talking tile. WITH THAT SAID, that's just the warning... I "would" do it again, but if it were my husband and someone like him... I'm not sure the kids would have come out as un-scarred. I pride in the fact I'm very persistent, not laid back, and crap just don't fly by me... It mattered raising our second dog as a puppy ...not so much our first OES. I totally think OES' were meant to have children in their family ...but they are work. They also weren't quick learners ...or at least had a mind of their own, so the abilities I thought I had to train both my dogs were quickly dismissed as I had to try soo many other methods to get something across. Not a problem if you have your time to dedicate to your dog ...harder if your time is divided with a child who needs your attn more. Just things to think about! If you do decide to get one... please post pics and tell us about your journey  |
| worst decision maker ever has learned alot. she be a quick learner by experience. |
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