RE-Housetraining
With all the spring mud, my 15 month old Dancer has decided she doesn't like to pee or poop outside anymore. She won't step on the mud, and when I take her on leash out front, she won't go there either. No matter how long she is out there she comes back in and does her business on the floor. Up until last night, she never would have messed in her crate either, but because I tried housetraining from scratch, by taking her out, and if she did not go outside, I put her back in the crate and tried 30 minutes later and so on. Well, last night she messed her crate. I was so disappointed, to me this ruins crate training for good. She messed in it again this morning. Pooped and peed. So did Sky, who has peed in her crate before but never pooped, but I think because she could smell Dancer's it stimulated her to go. Sky has no problem with the mud, she is a disgusting mess from playing in it, but she seems to have lost any housetraining she had as well. There are several reasons I can think of that may have caused the dogs to be "off", for one, my husband is away for work, and has only been home once in 3 weeks. That may have them stressed wondering where he is. It is also quite possible that one or both dogs may be going into heat soon, though I don't see any sign of it yet. If anyone has re trained an adult dog, please give me some tips here. I am not at all sure how to go about it, since neither dog is really food motivated, so treats for training is useless, and now that they have indicated they WILL mess in their crates, that seems useless too. I have thought keeping them on leash at my side at all times, but that is impossible to do with two dogs, and not even really feasible iwth one since I work full time. It is not a matter of re-establishing good habits, because they have never really had good habits to begin with. My only saving point was that they would not mess in their crates, but other than that they have never been reliable. They won't hold it when not in their crates, I just made sure I took them out often enough to avoid at least some accidents, but never all. Now that they seem to be refusing to go outside, Dancer at least, I have no idea what to do. Dancer did go pee outside a little while ago, but I think she finally did because the mud is covered iwth snow again. That won't last forever though, so I need to figure this out. Dancer went through this exact same thing last spring. She had seemed to be doing well with housetraining, then the snow melted, and she refused to pee outside. It wasn't until the ground dried up that she started peeing outside again, but still was not reliable. |
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| I really feel for you, because Ben has been a little monster when it comes to housebreaking. At 5 months, he's better than he was, but still no prize package.
I have had many years experience with adult rescue dogs and many of them were not housebroken. If they start eliminating in their crate, you really are pretty much screwed. You can try to reduce the size of the crate with some sort of barrier. I use plastic lattice held in place with clips. I will tell you how I helped my cousin housetrain his dog. The dog was a rescue that had always gone on grass, and my cousin has a concrete city yard. China kept eliminating in the house and crate and we were really flumoxxed. Finally, I got a 6x6 piece of outdoor grass carpet. Amazingly, she would relieve herself on this. We cleaned it with the hose after each use, and we began reducing the size of the carpet gradually until it was just a 1x1 square. By that time she would go on the concrete. I know this is a stretch, but maybe it could work for you. Try not to get too discouraged. |
| So, I should buy a snow making machine and turn my yard into a ski hill! LOL That would work....lol.....
Oh boy I think I have my work cut out for me. I think Sky will be fine if I just keep a closer eye on her, but Dancer is stubborn and will hold it for hours and hours until I am not looking. If I remember correctly, last year when Dancer went through this, she started going outside more when the ground dried up, so I guess I'll be cleaning up puddles for, oh about 3 months...lol... |
| Did you remove all blankets from the crate, some dogs know that it's absorbent enough. It worked for me.
Or might want to walk away from the house to dry area, and come up with a new routine. Like no more free feeding, no late snacks, controlling what goes in can help for when it comes out. Avoiding bladder pressure during the crate time. If you can place plywood/1x4's down if you have no side walk, and find whatever they are use to going on...gravel/grass. Put boots/socks on the feet. Neopaws has a light weight sneaker for summer time, they are in toronto I think. Check out the website. Good luck.  |
| I did remove their blankets, didn't make a difference. I also haven't been free feeding for about 6 weeks now. I had to switch to scheduled feedings in their crates because of Frazzle being here. I started scheduled feeding about 2 weeks before he got here.
I don't think I want to put boots on them.... and there really is NO dry spot. LOL They won't go on the conrete walkway or driveway for some reason. Well, Sky will, but not Dancer. Dancer prefers dry grass, snow, or linoleum 
Last year I did try the linoleum square outside, and it didn't work.... *sigh* If I can convince them to go somewhere else, like the front yard which is not as wet, that may work. Right now everything is covered in snow again so I can't even try. Actually that may work in my favor, if I can get Dancer to pee out front now with the snow, she may adapt easier to the front yard when it is muddy again.... I'll start trying that today. |
| Silly dogs huh? That's why we love them, keeps life interesting. Can't think of anything else to suggest. |
| Hi!
Well- my parents had this issue with their two cavalier spaniels. They bought them as adults and they were never potty trained to begin with. It was a really slow process of keeping them crated whenever the dogs were not being supervised. How big are the crates? My folks keep the cavs in crates just barely bigger then they are- enough to turn around, but not much bigger. I don't think they ever "went" in the crate, but I could be mistaken. I guess you could try keeping the girls crated whenever you can't watch them, and take them out on a regular basis when they're not crated. Just keep being consistent. In the meantime- try investing in some oxi-clean. My dad now swears by it for removing the err.. "organic" stains on the carpet. Is there a specific spot that she tends to releive herself at? Maybe you can keep her away from that area is so? It is a long process though- it took my folks nearly a year to have a good consistent potty behavior, and they still keep the dogs crated when they are not a home, and at bed time. Also- have you spoken with your breeeder? Maybe they have a few ideas for you? This is such a bummer! I'm dealing with this in Iris also- who knows to go near the kitty box, but never seems to make it in! Any ideas to share? sigh. what we won't put up with from our animals! Karen |
| Don't despair too much about the going in the crate thing. Granted, I think most times it does severely set back the training, however I think if you can nip it before it becomes a habit, you might be ok. Like Ben's mom, Clyde's been a monster to housetrain too. It's just these last 3 weeks that he's actually become pretty reliable-- both in the crate and in the house in general (he's about 6 1/2 months old now). Wow, could we not get him to stop peeing in the crate ! He only ever had one poop accident in the crate anyway but peeing was a daily occurence for awhile. As much as I hated to do it, we made the crate as small as possible for him to still turn around. For every successful couple of days we'd move it out an inch or so. If there was an accident, it went back to the small size. After a couple of weeks of this he figured out that he got more room when he didn't go in there and he's been broken of peeing in the crate ever since-- and that's been almost 2 months now.
One thing I will say, and everytime you mention your girls Willowsprite I think of this: as far as taking him out, I feel like I do way too much of the suggesting that it's time to go. What that's resulted in for me is the world's lousiest signal that he has to go. Do you know what he does? He takes a walk around the dining room table and circles back to sit down a few feet from the back door (not even right by it) and looks towards the living room (where we're normally sitting). I suppose that's fine when I'm in that room but that's the LOUSIEST signal ever if I'm elsewhere in the house! No barking, no nothing. Our trainer suggested getting him all excited every time he goes out, get him to bark or jump-- anything to make it a fun time for him. We tried it for a solid week. Acted like idiots every time we took him out. We found that it annoyed him when we were excited and he would just walk away and lie down somewhere away from the excitement! One time he pawed me and I was really happy but I've come to think now he actually hit me for acting stupid 
Regardless, I don't think all hope is lost. Did I remember in an earlier post you talking about paper training-- maybe it was your parents? If you're going to start over, have you considered trying that? Can you confine the dogs to an area rather than crate them? I know one thing for sure, I'd much rather clean pee off linoleum rather than the crate or my sheepie! I'm definitely no authority but I hope this helps a little-- even if it's just to lift your spirits to let you know you aren't alone in your housebreaking woes! |
| No sooner did I hit submit and I heard a yell from my boyfriend downstairs. Clyde peed on the floor. I swear everytime I talk about how good he's been-- or when I try to give advice he proves me wrong. Bad karma...
I'm never talking about housebreaking again  |
| After reading Butterstotch's last post I think I should keep my thoughts to myself; but I'll try anyway.
I feel for your frustration. Right now I can't get Barney in a cage unless I literally push him in and at 66 lbs. that's nearly impossible. But that's another issue -- but for me about as frustrating. As a kid growing up, we always had a dog for a pet. Mom always insisted that the dog did its business in a penned off area in the back yard. As a pup whenever we sensed his signals, we picked him up and carried him to his pen. Shut the gate and stayed there to praise him when he did his business. Worked like a charm, and best of all you never had to scan the whole yard with a pooper scoper. When I got Barney, that was really the first dog I had to train by myself. I was very apprehensive about the success since I work 40 hours a week in retail and my daily schedule varies from day to day and week to week. Fortunately I was able to schedule his arrival with 5 days off. I crated him and was lucky that he obeyed the law about dogs not messing in their bed. I divided the crate so he had just enough room to turn around in. The rest of the time, everytime he ate, played, woke up, or started to loose interest in what he was doing I would take him to the pen asking him if he wanted to go potty, stay there and praise him while he was doing his business. Don't wait till he comes back in otherwise he will have you letting him out just so he can come back in for praise. (The pen is a fenced off are, chat paved, with a gate - all home-made of landscape ties for posts, 2x4 rails and 2"x4" welded wire fencing.) The only times he messed in the house was when I didn't catch his signals. If he got restless in his cage at night, I take him out to the pen (This was in Nov. & Dec.) Amazingly in 2 months he was housebroken. Up until recently I was crating him for 4 hrs during the day, then come home for lunch and let him out for the second 4 hrs. The yard has a large patio (400 sf) which is fenced off from the grass area. So he is only on concrete, so mud is no problem. My suggestion: 1) if possible create a chat paved pen and 2) start from the beginning to go through the housebreaking routine - let the dogs out after they eat (no snacks), after playing, when they get up and any other times they send signals. I suggest this based on the "Dog's Mind" which repeatedly suggests that in the training process, whenever the dog screws up, you start back at the last point at which they were successful. Be consistent and persistent. I cussed every time I got up in December and walked Barney out to the pen at 2am. But it was time well spent. Fortunately you seem to have a better sense of humor than I have. I do hope there is something is this long dissertation that might prove helpful. I'm no expert as I'm sure Barney will attest. Hang in there. George |
| I would like to thank all of you for your input, there are many great ideas in this thread that I think will help me, and anyone else searching for answers in this area.
We had a 2 day blizzard last week so the ground was well covered with snow again and the accidents disappeared. Now it is melting again though, so for the time it is muddy I will have to try some of these suggestions. As far as giving me some kind of signal, I can only hope that in time they will, but it seems they have only had "accident free" days because I keep on them about going outside. I don't know if they will ever be properly house trained and reliable, I highly doubt it. If I ever get another dog though I will not be crate training. I won't get a pup again while working either unless I am off for at least 2 months for proper training. |
| They are obviously very smart dogs, they are also clean dogs with an aversion to mud...perhaps even phobic of it. I don't know what you have for a budget but you may need to redesign your back yard to be mud free. We have interlocking pation stones that go from the back stairs, then it goes onto grass.
I have one area that is all dirt because I planted trees last fall, and didn't cover the ground with bark mulch...so far Remy only went on once or twice...I was so worried she'd find it fun. I too had a relapse this week, but it was my fault completely, she woke me up at 6:30 am and I didn't take her seriously enough, and sure enough she peed minutes later. She must have gotten into alot of water before bed, usually she hold its all night until 7-7:30am. She also has free reign of the house and we try to remember to close all toilets, and put away anywater from the dish. |
Amen to the paved area; another advantage is the pavement keeps the nails trimmed. Barney doesn't like nail trimming, and with the concrete paved patio and daily walks on the street and sidewalk I haven't had to trim his nails in the last 4 months. When the ground is dry I open the gate to the grassy area for him to play and romp. Today I was trimming some dead branches off a fig tree and as I was laying them in a neat pile, he would pick them up and scatter them around the yard for me to pick up again. 
I can only imagine the difficulty you have in the norther climates with long snowy and cold winters. My sister was a missionary to the Cree indians in northern Manitoba and saw very little warm weather. You northerners are rugged. |
| Things are going well with the girls, excpet when it rains, then, it doesn't matter how long I take Dancer outside, she really does not want to step on that wet grass... lol.... anyway, I just make her stay there until she pees, if I can't or don't have time to stand any longer, she goes back in the crate and we try again later. Sky has been fine.
I'm planning on doing something with the yard this year, I'm thinking a fenced in gravel or large pebble area.... no mud, no grass either. LOL |
| The only problem I've had with the chat paved area where Barney does his business is in the summer months keeping the weeds and grass out; its easier to pick up the poop from gravel or chat than from grass, and I don't want to put weed killer down for fear of harm to the dog if he decides to lick his paws. So every several years I have added additional chat. also over time much of the rock sinks into the soil; however I've just contracted to have the area paved so that will eliminate clean up problems. |
| Couldn't help but put my 2 cents in Willowsprite!! BOOTS!!! HEHEHEHE Dancer might just like them
Tasker was easy to housetrain and has always been good about going out but you do need to be a mind reader. He'll come stand by you and stare and it's up to you to figure out if the stare means, I have to pee, I'm hungry, or PET ME!!!!!! |
| LOL... maybe we'll try boots someday, today they made such a mess coming in with muddy feet! |
There is a company here that provides a brand new clean piece of sod for your dog to use. They come and bag up the dirty sod and then replace it with a new piece. It seemed pretty funny, but there are many people who either live in condos or on their boat and don't have access to grassy areas. If I find their web site, I will post it. Having said that, perhaps in the winter months you could buy sod and place it in the garage or under an overhang so your dogs have a place to go. I was thinking about it for Sam as I don't like standing in pouring down rain as she does her business  ! |
| What a funny idea... but a good one.... it gives me an idea to build an overhang over our future dog run we plan to build.... we have a big fenced in yard, but I use a tie out cable for the dogs to do their business so that they only use a small portion of it, away from where the kids play. |
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