Reaction to vaccine
She had the c5 vaccine for parvo, distemper, hepatitis, bordatella and influenza. This was her two year booster. I thought that she seemed a bit lethargic on Friday afternoon but she perked up to go to agility training and came home and scoffed her dinner. Sat she ran at the park as usual and ate well but slept all day (not like her). Sunday the same but when I groomed her I found three red inflammed hives. She wasnt scratching at them particularly so there's no way I would even have known they were there if Sunday wasnt grooming day. The vet said to monitor the hives and her behaviour and bring her in if anything worried me. Today she's back to her usual self. Running up and down the corridor and bouncing off the sofas. I did catch her scratching once though. The hives are much less red, the ones I can find that is. That's the thing that's got me wondering. How often do dogs have a mild reaction to a vaccine but no one knows. Initially I thought I was just being paranoid about the lethargy because we get back late from agility. And I would never have known about the hives if I didnt have to line groom. It would probably be just as hard to notice them on a short haired dog unless they're really itchy of course and they dont get groomed as often. Trust your instincts and check your dogs skin if they seem a bit different after a vaccination. |
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| Some dogs do indeed develop serious reactions to vaccinations. To stay legal they must be titered thru blood test to determine if they are still safely guarded. Future vaxs, if necessary, may require an antihitimine to be administered as well. |
| Glad Tiggy is feeling better. Oscar also had weird vaccine reactions when he was a pup. Instead of being lethargic, he became a wild man, unable to calm down, panting even more than usual, and he had terrible diarrhea. His light pink skin would turn a bright fuschia. For the next round of vaccines, we spread them out, spacing them about a week apart, and also gave Oscar Benadryl for a couple of days. He did better, but still not great. Then he was diagnosed with Immune Mediated Disease, so we started testing his blood for antibodies (titers), instead of automatically vaccinating him. Since we began titer testing four years ago, Oscar has never needed another booster for anything but rabies, and that's only because rabid bats have been found in our area, and I wasn't willing to risk it. If Tiggy is having a reaction, titer testing may be the way to go. Not sure if your agility club will recognize the results as equivalent to receiving a vaccine, but it is becoming more and more common here in the US. Laurie and Oscar |
| If you warn your Vet that your dog had a reaction to any vaccine, they can give a shot forst to counter any potential reaction. I do that with both my dogs and since th first time have not had any problem. Glad your baby is feeling better... |
| Damned if you do and Damned if you dont as they say. Mim you are in a catch 22 situation with tiggy, until the dog clubs and vets accept the vaccination protocols announced here then really no need to vacs tigs again ever. She should have lifetime immunity and pretty darn scary too. Mine I stopped Pep at age 7 after a mast cell tumour, ripe old age of 14 when we had to say goodbye due to old age and not a sick day in her life after stopping vaccinations. Kels was 5 with her last lot of vacs and again 14 due to old age. Brie I stopped at 5 too and with the kids bringing home kennel cough and still current with there vacs brie was the least affected then what they were. Last year after the puppy series of vaccinations when we went to get that annual booster of the C5 injection 12 months later both babs and Syd developed pea sized lumps on the back of there necks from where the jab went in and took several weeks to go away. My thoughts are they are well covered now and should have immunity for life, they are now due for re-vaccination and aint getting it, lets hope the dog world & the vets catches up with all this stuff the AVA has finally changed on vaccinations soon  WE DONT DO THIS TO OUR HUMAN KIDS EACH YEAR!!!! With live viruses to keep them safe !! Ask your vet to issue at least a 3 year cover certificate for next year when you need to renew fairy flosses agility membership. I was umming and arrhing over my two as they are now due and around the dog fraternity but after last year and tiggys reaction NO way now, the more I read on over-vaccination the more one wonders what are we doing to our dogs each year !!  . Let's hope the vets here catch up with the newer vaccination protocals, somehow I DONT think so as it cuts into there bread and butter part of the business and will send some out of business too. Been there with the "Great Debate" with my veterinary facility I go too but ces sera sera as they say, all the research on this is pointing too "we are overloading our dogs"!!!! Now rabies I know nothing about but as far as the rest well time will tell. |
| Lisa, looks like you are struggling with the same issues. You are right about vaccines being "bread and butter" for the vet industry, and I do think that has hampered efforts to change protocol. However, times are a changin' here in the U.S. on this issue, thanks to some progressive vets who have been pressing for more data to support a different view on vaccines. Dr. Jean Dodds is commonly mentioned as someone heavily involved in this movement. Instead of automatically administering vaccines, my own vets do a blood test to check Oscar's titer levels. My vets are quite progressive though, and seem to be on the cutting edge when it comes to diagnostics, new meds, etc. As the blood tests are slightly more expensive than the vaccines, my vets aren't losing out anyway. Honestly, if I ever decide to get another puppy, I will be doing some serious research into new vaccine protocols and I will make sure that the breeder follows my vet's specifications. After the necessary booster, I will titer test before vaccinating, even if the dog does not have immune issues like Oscar. Maybe it will help prevent another dog of mine with Immune Mediated Disease. Laurie and Oscar |
Yes we are Lorie especially as most vets wont pass on the info to their clients. I only read about the new protocal announced by the AVA (Australian Veterinary Association) in a dog magazine and am still arguing with my vets.  Even though overtime I suspended my older dogs from vaccinations on literature read on O/S sites & the scare back in 1997 with one of my girls and the Mast cell tumour she developed and detecting it early we beat it, after that I stopped anything foreign going into her system and fed a natural diet of no processed food etc all natural and fresh & organic, must of worked OK as she lived another 7 years but at the time of diagnosis, 3 ops later and harsh drugs the prognosis was 6 months maybe more, well we defied the odds there.  Dr Jean Dodds lectured here and I missed the lecture, just wish this subject can be taken into a more general public persona so people can make an informative choice after puppy series of shots followed by a year later the booster then decide if they really DO need follow up annual vacs. Personally I think the Kennel cough vacs is useless after my recent experience here. Lorie also is over vacs related to Auto-immune problems as well  |
| I'm sure Laurie knows heaps more about it but yes there is some evidence (mostly anecdotal, I think) to suggest that in some dogs vaccines can trigger immune mediated diseases. |
Poor Tiggy.  Harry had an allergic reaction to antibiotics twice. I didn't realize it the first time but had to point it out to the vets the second time. Interesting on the vaccinations. I will have to look into this more. |
Lisa, good thing you are looking into all of these things yourself. Maybe you can bring your vets up to speed!!!!  Sounds like the AVA is moving in the same direction as the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) and taking a more serious look at vaccine protocol. Long overdue, I expect. Tiggy's Mom, you're understanding of the situation is the same as mine. The relationship between canine vaccines and autoimmune issues seems to be rather complicated, much like in humans. The question is always "Why do some dogs have a bad reaction and not others?". There is so much we still do not understand about the immune system in general. From what I have read, it seems that there may be a genetic or inherent component involved, like a trigger, that gets set off by a particular vaccination or a combo of vaccines. Some dogs have the trigger, some dogs don't. So it's not necessarily "over-vaccination" that is causing the problem, it's just that current vaccine protocols might be problematic in concert with whatever inherent component is coming into play. (This inherent component might or might not be inherited, so I hesitate to use the word "genetic".) My vets do believe that vaccinations were a factor in Oscar's development of Immune Mediated Disease, in conjunction with an inherent immune issue. For Oscar, vaccines hyper-stimulated his immune system, resulting in his body fighting his own tissue systems as foreign objects. It struck particularly hard on his digestive system and his skin, as we are constantly dealing with drug resistant infections and IBD flare-ups. (He just got treated for Pseudamonas and right now he has MRSS....methecillin resistant staphylococcus schleiferi....the fun never ends.....) I'm not sure how long the current vaccination protocols have been in place, but I'm glad to see vets taking a closer look at the situation and evaluating alternatives. There is always a fine line between not enough, just enough, and too much. I am doing the best I can do for Oscar, with the information I have available, and that's all I can do. Lisa, I know you are doing the same for your dogs. The trouble is, we don't want to swing so far back the other way and risk our dogs getting sick with preventable diseases. Alot of the reason we have the luxury of looking into this now is precisely because so many generations of dogs have been vaccinated that these diseases are held in check in the dog community. Lisa, do they do titer testing in Australia? You might want to check into that as an alternative to vaccines. It tests the blood for antibodies to see if the dog is protected from a particular disease. Oscar's titers are tested for everything but rabies, and it gives me the peace of mind (and scientific evidence) to decide not to vaccinate for things that come back with a high enough level. (As I've said before, since we have started titer testing, Oscar hasn't needed ANY booster vaccine, other than rabies.) Laurie and Oscar |
| Laurie thanks for taking the time to post what you know. Titer testing is possible here but very uncommon and so quite expensive. I havn't ascertained yet whether or not a vaccination certificate based on acceptable antibody levels at blood test will be accepted by my agility group. That is something I will do before Tiggy is due for her annual booster next year. I agree with you it is important to vaccinated but whether or not we need to continue to give regular boosters and if we do how frequent they should be is the question. |
| Mim, I'm happy to share what I have learned. I just wish I didn't have to learn it at my poor Oscar's expense. I think the cost of the titer testing is pretty much driven by whatever laboratory is handling it. My vet charges a standard blood draw fee in addition, but the bulk of the bill is what the lab is charging. Hopefully, it will get less expensive in Australia as it becomes more and more common. Here in the U.S., it is definitely cheaper just to vaccinate, but not outrageously so. My vets offer titer testing for dogs with immune issues, but I don't think they offer it to the population at large, mostly because of the increased cost. For us, I think it's actually less expensive to titer test, and avoid dealing with the aftermath of hyper-stimulating Oscar's immune system unnecessarily. As I said, if I ever get another puppy, I will approach vaccines with a whole different mind set. Mim, you might want to do some research online, and see if there are any vets or organizations in Australia carrying the torch for overhauling the vaccine protocol. They might be able to give you some ammunition to use with your agility club the next time Tiggy is due for vaccines. Laurie and Oscar |
Oscar's Mom wrote: Mim, you might want to do some research online, and see if there are any vets or organizations in Australia carrying the torch for overhauling the vaccine protocol. They might be able to give you some ammunition to use with your agility club the next time Tiggy is due for vaccines. Laurie and Oscar Thanks for the tip Laurie. |
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