I'm so upset!
I took some pictures and I'll post them as soon as they're approved. My poor beautiful girl. Oh, and what is it with our sheepdogs and people??? Have they never seen one? I've never met a sheepdog in my life before Mady, but I knew what they looked like, I sure as hell knew they didn't have shaved noses!!!! |
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| One good thing about a bad haircut is that it grows back...eventually. Patch's hair grows very slowly. We love our sheeps' hair to be perfectly coiffed, but some groomers find it "easy" to groom our sheepdogs by a flip of the clip switch and it is all over. Mady's hair will be cute again (she is cute anyway). I ahve to remind the groomer not to shave Patch's nub - it was shaved one time and looked like a Weimaramer - it looked terrible! Mady will be all grown out in no time and beautiful again. |
OMG. This nose shaving thing has to stop. It doesn't make any sense at all. Is she giving you some sort of insane reasoning for doing this to your poor dog (and making her nose all razor burned) or is this just a special added touch that she's doing on her own? This shouldn't be something you should ever have to tell a groomer NOT to do! It's so weird that she's even doing it. I'm mad for you. Between the ears and the nose-- and I know this is the last thing you want to hear-- I'd consider clipping her down and starting fresh so you get a nice even grow out. Believe me, I'm the last person to suggest this usually because I HATE cutting my dogs down but, from experience now, I've gotten to be a bit less of a crybaby about it (literally, I always tear up when I have to cut them). It's not easy to continuously correct different lengths but a cut down lets everything grow back nice and evenly. Plus, you'd get to skip the majority of that first terrible transition. I'm now really glad that I did it with Owen after he finished his championship (he was a few months older than Mady). His hair grew back amazingly, it looks fantastic now and I skipped a lot of matting headaches. It totally bummed me out but it worked out really well in the end. Just my two cents-- I know if someone gave me the same advice in your shoes I would've adamantly fought it, too, lol. |
| I'd take that pix to the groomer and shove it............in her face and say, "Never ever to this to my dog.....or any dog again!" Then I'd show it to the shop manager. Good chance that blade was way too hot for such a sensitive area. PLus you also requested...or demanded...not to cut that hair. For heaven sakes, these are sheepdogs, not Bichons. Often the best grooming is the one you have taught yourself to give. It takes time and patience. |
| This can't be the only groomer in Ottawa. As the old saying goes, get me once, shame on you, get me twice shame on me. Since this is not the first time, I would make sure it was the LAST time. Find a new groomer. |
I don't know what we should do now. Apart from this nose thing, she has been marvellous. Do we find another groomer? Ply Carl the Maniacal Groomer with expensive champagne so that he will teach us to do it ourselves? Or do we try to sit down with the current groomer and discuss this nose shaving thing? Or do we just move across the province to live closer to Mady's first two-legged mama so that she can teach us to groom her. The way she looks is one thing, but to see her pawing at her nose just breaks my heart.  |
That really is the oddest trim idea  ..... I've never seen an OES (or other similar hairy breed) trimmed like that. Then to give her razor burn to boot!  I would consider the shave down, or at least a puppy cut down to about an inch. After the ears and the nose, it just would look better. And get you through the mats of transition. I was showing and didn't trim - trust me, it was a LOT of work. After that it's like you're home free! |
ButtersStotch wrote: Between the ears and the nose-- and I know this is the last thing you want to hear-- I'd consider clipping her down and starting fresh so you get a nice even grow out. Believe me, I'm the last person to suggest this usually because I HATE cutting my dogs down but, from experience now, I've gotten to be a bit less of a crybaby about it (literally, I always tear up when I have to cut them). got sheep wrote: I would consider the shave down, or at least a puppy cut down to about an inch. After the ears and the nose, it just would look better. And get you through the mats of transition. I was showing and didn't trim - trust me, it was a LOT of work. After that it's like you're home free! Do you mean trim it down just around her head? Or all over? I'm pretty sure I couldn't stomach that right now. The rest of her coat is so stunning and I am grooming (and trying to improve my grooming) to keep it mat-free. This was my baby a week ago...  |
Mady wrote: I don't know what we should do now. Apart from this nose thing, she has been marvellous. Do we find another groomer? Ply Carl the Maniacal Groomer with expensive champagne so that he will teach us to do it ourselves? Or do we try to sit down with the current groomer and discuss this nose shaving thing? Or do we just move across the province to live closer to Mady's first two-legged mama so that she can teach us to groom her. The way she looks is one thing, but to see her pawing at her nose just breaks my heart. That's what kills me-- it all red but for seemingly no reason. I mean, it's not like it needed to be shaved! I always feel soooo bad if one of my guys gets burned like that and on the face must be so uncomfortable. Have you asked her about why she's doing it? I know you mentioned that this wasn't the first time this happened which is what lends me to believe that she thinks she's doing some sweet finishing move that is not sweet at all. If you have the option to learn from another OES person, that would be ideal-- even if you had to make a few longer trips just to get some basics down so you could go into a groomer knowing exactly what you want and what should be done. Were you going to come to the National? There will be a heck of a lot of us there and we'd all be willing to give hands on tips (after we're in the ring, of course) and answer any questions that you have. |
| I agree w/ Jill..... and I'm not showing in conformation this year, so I'll have lots of free time to hang out by Thursday. And Amber will want to get her hands on her too, I'm sure! I showed Todd the picture and he agrees it looks painful, and quite the nasty trim job.  |
Baba wrote: Do you mean trim it down just around her head? Or all over? I'm pretty sure I couldn't stomach that right now. The rest of her coat is so stunning and I am grooming (and trying to improve my grooming) to keep it mat-free. This was my baby a week ago... No, the whole thing. I know, it would make me sick, too. I'm right there with you. I am not of the camp that "hair grows back" because even though it does, it doesn't grow back overnight and it's such a commitment to wait. One thing I will promise you with 100% certainty, her coat that will grow back will be even more stunning. Now that he's been clipped and the puppy coat is gone, Owen's coat is double what it was and fantastic. Either way, use it as a learning experience, even if it's just to get better at brushing. If you don't like where it's going, you can clip her at any time. When you're not showing, you have that freedom to just throw in the towel and call it a do over at any time! |
The only reasoning she has given has been to keep hair out of her eyes. Sure, I know as it's growing out it's real messy around her eyes and it could irritate them, but the goal is to have it grow long enough so it can all be up in the topknot and the sides going down, like Kristine's beauty: She shaved her nose down the first time, not nearly as short as this time (and no razor-burn). The 2nd time we had a big discussion with her and she didn't touch the face at all, so I was really shocked when she shaved it down again this 3rd time (and so short). I will learn to do it all myself, ideally never needing a groomer at all. Though I still don't know what we'll do if we ever have to leave her for a few days again... |
| I had a groomer that did that...to both my dogs. We have a new groomer. One thing I learned is to write everything that you want done/or not done down and give them the sheet of paper. That way they can look back and see what you want. Sometimes they don't hear or remember what you wanted. |
Mady wrote: I don't know what we should do now. Apart from this nose thing, she has been marvellous. Do we find another groomer? Ply Carl the Maniacal Groomer with expensive champagne so that he will teach us to do it ourselves? Or do we try to sit down with the current groomer and discuss this nose shaving thing? Or do we just move across the province to live closer to Mady's first two-legged mama so that she can teach us to groom her. The way she looks is one thing, but to see her pawing at her nose just breaks my heart. David and Kim, The polysporin is about the best you can do right now. Clean the area in the morning and put a light coat of fresh polysporin on for the day and repeat the process tomorrow night. Depending on how quickly the rash heals you might need to do this for anywhere from a few days to a week. The best thing to wipe off the polysporin is a make-up removal pad, they are adsorbant, large enough, predominantly lint free and sterile. In fact they are great for many other cleaning and topical treatment applications - and no I don't care about the looks I get at the drug store when I pick them out in the beauty supply aisle and then pay for them. This is part of taking care of my kids! There is no reason to shave or trim Mady whatsoever. You like her in full coat so that is how you should have her in spite of your groomer's apparent intentions to the opposite. From what I saw at Mady and Dawn's playdate last month you are doing a good job at caring for Mady's coat. If you feel you need some help and guidance you don't need to ply me with anything for help, just call, make and appointment and bring your girl over. We'll go over where you are and anything you feel you need help with. And that goes for anyone else who is close enough to come over. I will do anything I can to help other Bobtail parents, new or established, to take care of their kids. I well remember what it was like when I was first in the breed and didn't know enough and there was no help to be had locally - I don't want others to feel lost like that so whatever I can do to help, I will. I would still talk to the groomer AND shop manager. Clearly there is something wrong with either the clipper blades or the technique being used. Clipping should not irritate the skin, and since there was so little clipping involved the blades would have not been worked hard enough to heat up and burn Mady's muzzle. (If they were still hot from a prior client that raises a whole new spectre of incompetence and cross contamination!) I would suspect that either one tooth is bent or broken and hence scratched Mady's nose, or the clipper was held at the wrong angle and the front edge of the blades scrapped at the skin. Neither is acceptable and needs be corrected before that groomer touches another dog. I would also ensure the groomer and manager know that Mady is NEVER to be clipped. If the groomer is this quick to clip Mady's muzzle, what will happen when Mady goes in during her coat transistion with an inevitable matt or two? Anyway, give me a call and if nothing else we'll set up a playdate for our girls. Thanks and Cheers Carl |
| Oh no, that poor nose. And I agree with everyone, it makes NO sense what so ever. Maybe your groomer is related to my Mom's ex-groomer! But they are pigeon pairs and do weird things to the opposite ends of a dog. My Mom has a mini poodle (Charlie) and her groomer used to clip really short like Mady's nose around the base of the tail. It looked like Charlie's tail was a stick poking out of a ring. Weird because poodles tails are shaved except for the pompom. She's shave the around base of the tail even shorter and leave a kind of longer fringe of hair between the tail and the shaved ring. Sorry, hard to explain and there's no photo. But it looked very silly and everyone used to laugh. Mum kept asking the groomer not to do it but she went ahead and did it every time. My Mom has a new groomer now.........its ME. I couldnt stand it any longer and learnt to do a poodle pet trim. Mom's wrapped she pays me with a nice dinner and a few glasses of wine.   |
| Poor nose! I just want to mention that the pink (albino) skin without hair over it has NO protection from the sun, so could there be a sunburn piece to this? |
| On a postive note David. Mady has the cutest, cutest little eyes I have seen. They make me want to grab her face and kiss it all over. I definitely understand why you and Kim cant resist that sheepie stare, Mady's eyes would melt the coldest heart. |
| The groomer is the owner of the shop. She is a Master groomer. I am kind of hoping that, when we call today, there was some young apprentice working who just screwed up. We are particularly bummed because this groomer boards up to two dogs and if David and I were going to take a few weeks to go away, we would board Mady with her, knowing that she would be groomed. Three weeks in that kennel, as great a kennel as it was and as fun as Mady had, would result in her having to be shaved. I guess that it is time to count our blessings that we have Carl so close by to help us learn, you folks on the forum to help, and Amber a phone call away. I know that we will see Amber too this coming October, so can spend some time watching and learning from her. In the meantime, I guess we should be keeping Mady inside, as we sure can't put sunscreen on that nose. |
| Poor baby... don't you HATE that? I've never liked that shaving the nose bit. If I wanted a bichon or poodle, I would have adopted one. Lee's wackado owner did that shave to his nose and it got really burned. You may remember this photo  It will grow back in, but I think it's the frustration with the person that did it that makes the whole thing irritating. What finally got me to stop going to groomers was the hack job the groomer did to Asterisk  I CRIED when I saw that face. My poor pupper! Don't psych yourself out David, you're doing a great job. Blame the puppy coat transition for most of your apprehension, once she's past a few transitions, you won't remember how difficult the coat used to be! |
| After hearing that it was the owner, "master groomer" that did the job I would never go back. You clearly made your wishes known and yet not only did they not listen but ended up hurting Mady. I have trimmed Bella after looking at the posts here and although she is in a puppy cut I understand your reluctance to trim Mady down. It took Bella quite some time to grow out her hair after she was shaved down following her rescue. Everyone has really pitched in to help me learn how to trim myself and it is satisfying. I did take her to a groomer that was recommended to me by the rescue to help me learn how to shape her head better. Take the time to drive to anyone willing to help you learn to do it yourself. It is worth the extra time. I drove 45 min to the groomer and it was worth it. As to boarding Mady at the facility I would be worried if they were going to keep up with the brushing......would you come beck to a MATTY Mady??????? How far is the breeder from you????? can Mady have a sleepover with the breeder??? Me I try to take Bella with me if I can. Beside I miss the bouncing ball of fur after a day or so......fluff withdrawal and all |
| Amber, Mady's wonderful breeder, is an 8 hour drive. If David and I do decide to go on a vacation of a few weeks, I will certainly be asking Amber if she would take Mady in. It would be worth the drive knowing that she was loved, cared for, fussed over and safe. Of course, if we took her to Amber's, we run the risk of coming home with an extra sheepie tucked into the car! But after all of this, I will be giving both Amber and Carl a call. Maybe we really can learn to do this all ourselves, with all of you backing us up. David has been incredible grooming Mady thus far. We will be seeing Amber live and in person in October, and Carl before that (at least for a playdate with the lovely Dawn and her motley crew of doggie siblings) so we can get some advice. Dammit, I LIKED that groomer. |
| I can't understand why the groomer would do that. I have never seen that. Poor Mady, it looks so sore. For me personally, I wouldn't be going back to that groomer again. |
| Oh my god, that is a horrible burn. A bad haircut is one thing, injury is another. If the groomer had said something to you about her bad clip job, that would have at least put you at some ease that she cared. Do you live in such a remote area that there are no other groomers or kennels? Rely on your instinct and heart about the groomer and take it from there - |
| Awwww......poor Mady! I would be FUMING as well!! I have never understood the need for a groomer to shave that area! You definately need to show that groomer what she has done to Mady. She obviously has to be in pain! We'll talk Kim. Thanks so much to Carl & Michelle for offering to help out! I wish we lived closer! |
| Oh dear, poor thing! What a haircut. |
baileesdad wrote: This can't be the only groomer in Ottawa. As the old saying goes, get me once, shame on you, get me twice shame on me. Since this is not the first time, I would make sure it was the LAST time. Find a new groomer. Underline the last four words. That makes me for poor Mady, and want to shave the groomer's sensitive parts. |
| poor mady. that looks so sore. there is no need to do that to a sheepie, or most other breeds. the only nose i have shaved is a poodle with a clean face. i cant believe you even told her not to do it. as for being a master groomer, am sure is isnt a master groomer on every breed. has she seen an old english sheepdog before?? i would go back make a point of complaining and then go somewhere else. |
| How is Mady's nose going?? Is it getting better yet? |
| She keeps rubbing at it. When we catch her, we stop her. I think that it is slowly getting better. We are going to a cottage for a week and I am worried about sunburn. Any suggestions? Can you put people sunscreen on a dog? |
Mady wrote: She keeps rubbing at it. When we catch her, we stop her. I think that it is slowly getting better. We are going to a cottage for a week and I am worried about sunburn. Any suggestions? Can you put people sunscreen on a dog? Yes you can. My only thought is I'm not sure if there's anything in it that may irritate or sting if she still has raw areas. |
got sheep wrote: Mady wrote: She keeps rubbing at it. When we catch her, we stop her. I think that it is slowly getting better. We are going to a cottage for a week and I am worried about sunburn. Any suggestions? Can you put people sunscreen on a dog? Yes you can. My only thought is I'm not sure if there's anything in it that may irritate or sting if she still has raw areas. Get the one for baby faces. It's for sensitive skin and won't irritate even if it still is a little sore. It's mostly zinc oxide and stays on pretty well, too. *Interesting note: if you're wearing nail polish, wear gloves when you apply it. Some polishes react with zinc oxide and turn the nail polish into a weird gummy mess. I found this out the hard way. |
| Not that it is a sun screen because I don't think it is, but for the healing process Bag Balm works well and is soothing. If the poor nose is irritated, the bag Balm will heal without a sting. |
| We finally got in touch with the groomer today. She claims that area must be kept clear "every few groomings" otherwise they become prone to eye infections. She is being adamant about this, despite risking losing a customer, she firmly believes it's wrong to not do this for the sake of the dog. I know from the responses here and all the beautiful OES pictures in the gallery, that no one here agrees with that. However, just for the sake of argument, has anyone heard this before? Could long hair around the face increase the risk of eye infections? I just want to know why she's so black and white about this. I will be talking with other groomers today. |
| I don't see how the presence of hair (long or short) close to the eye is a breeding ground for eye infection. I would think that cleaning the hair would take care of any bacteria. I'd think you'd be more likely to get eye infections from entropian lashes than simply having hair there. I've never had an eye infection in my dogs and currently Asterisk and Wendel's hair is pulled into top knots. David, I would look for someone else. She should respect your wishes and also your knowledge on your own breed of dog to know what to do. |
Baba wrote: Could long hair around the face increase the risk of eye infections? Obviously, no -- or we would all be battling eye infections around the clock. That's not a common ailment - I can't recall treating a single eye infection in the past 17 years through several OES. The groomer is wrong and here's the thing - even IF she was right - she shaved Mady's nose so short she gave her a burn. That's just plain bad grooming, no matter what her "reason" is. She clearly does not know how to groom OES, she does not research or seek out photos or anything to enhance her skills so patooey, she needs to go. Hope you can find a groomer who knows what he's doing! |
| Find someone who is experienced with sheepies. I took Bella to a groomer who was recommend to me by Madeline. The groomer does ALL the sheepies in the area that show and a lot of those in the area that don't show. I asked her tons of questions and it never came up that they needed to have their noses shaved like that. She would have told me if that was the norm. This groomer does at least 30 sheepies on a regular basis so I would think she has the experience. Also your breeder would have mentioned something like that if there was any real "medical reason" for doing a shave there. There must be other groomers in your area or make the drive to find one who really knows that breed. |
| We talked to Amber, Mady's breeder, and she said what you are all saying, that there is just no need to shave her nose. So now we have to find another groomer. There really are few sheepies in Ottawa, but we will call around to the groomers and see what we can find. Maybe Amber and her family have a hankering to move to Ottawa... |
| I, too, have not found a groomer nearby that is very experienced with Sheepies. That being said, I DID find a guy who is wonderful. His shop is in his home. He only does one dog at a time with the emphasis on the experience being as non-stressful as possible. (I looked for this because Bella hates, hates, hates being groomed! ) He is willing to listen carefully to whatever I want and will even let me stay during grooming session to ensure he does whatever I want. He wanted me to send him some pictures of cuts for Bella since she is now in a puppy cut. He is also willing to research the breed! While her first cut wasn't exactly perfect, she was calm and happy and I love that he is willing to work with me. If you can't find an experienced Sheepie groomer, maybe you could find something like this? I had groomer once years ago do the shaved nose thing that was also irritated and I never, ever went back! Good luck finding someone you are comfortable with! |
| We may have had a spot of luck today, we spoke with another groomer today, and we did mention our hopes of keeping her in full coat and the nose shaving thing. He also didn't understand why the nose would be shaved. He is a certified groomer who has some experience with sheepdogs. He was a bit wary because he's heard the "full coat" thing before from people who bring in a sheepdog who's a matted disaster, and he asked us if we knew the commitment it would take. When we replied we're grooming her daily, he became excited to meet Mady. So we'll be bringing her in Thursday or Friday for a meet. She doesn't actually need any grooming services right now, but it's just to discuss what we'd like with Mady, and see if he'll be able to work on it. |
Oh that sounds promising I hope it works out for you and Mady!!  |
| Oh my goodness. I just took Oliver to the groomer today. Not my normal groomer either, But really wanted to get the matts out of him. I realized they were going to shave him down but when I seen his snout I was really taken back It was worse then yours!! I will not be acting on impulse anymore and will stick to my groomer from now on. If I knew how to post a pic I would because you wouldn't believe how awful it is, |
OESCrazy wrote: Oh my goodness. I just took Oliver to the groomer today. Not my normal groomer either, But really wanted to get the matts out of him. I realized they were going to shave him down but when I seen his snout I was really taken back It was worse then yours!! I will not be acting on impulse anymore and will stick to my groomer from now on. If I knew how to post a pic I would because you wouldn't believe how awful it is, I know that it will grow back, but I really do feel your pain. |
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