Behaviour issues- barking growling and biting
This is my first post but have been reading for a few weeks since we got Asgard our now 13 week old OES!! We've had him about 4 weeks now and I'm in love. He's really settling in now, but was quite sick a couple of weeks ago, my husband posted about this. He's fully recovered now  Over the past couple of days he has begun to snap, growl and bark at us when we go within about half a metre of him when he's eating. He wet himself a couple of times too as if he thought we were going to take the food of him. We are now stroking him while he's eating to get him used to us being near. He has also barked and snapped at our three cats when they go near him while he's eating. This is our first dog, so we aren't sure if this is normal behaviour, dominance or aggression. Just wondering if anyone has experienced this before? Things aren't going too bad between him and the cats. He barks at them in excitement when they first come in in the morning. We are wondering if there's a good way to stop him barking at them. We've tried distracting, saying no firmly, rolling him onto his back etc. but he either sees it as a game or barks at them again within a couple of minutes. Thanks in advance Jill |
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| You might want to try a few things with the food. We've done this with all our sheepies, and it's fantastic. Fill the food bowl and walk to wherever the dog eats. Before you put it down, step toward him, silently, and keep walking slowly until he sits down. Wait until he lays himself down. This is submission. If he doesn't do it normally, you can use words and put him where you want him, but to really show you are the "boss" it should reach the point where you do it silently. When he's down and submitted, tell him to stay. Then put the food bowl down. He'll spring up a bunch of times, but take him back and sit him and tell him to stay. When you see he's about to lose the stay intervene right away. I use Hey and step forward. He'll figure out really quickly that you want that bum on the floor. The first time you may have to spend ten or more minutes on this but it's worth it. When he finally sits and stays, put the food down. Remind him he's staying or replace him that way if necessary. Then say "eat" and sweep your hand toward the bowl. THEN he gets to go and eat. Each of our dogs waits for their name and and eat, so I can actually give one permission while the other maintains the sit and stay. It's YOUR food. It's YOUR bowl, and you are very kindly providing for your pack flunkie as the leader. When we taught ten week old Hudson this it took three meals to master it. And we do it every single time now. Rescue Rudy (who was already a year old) took two meals to get it. I walk to crazy/happy dogs to the eating area, look in their direction, and bums immediately drop. I can put down bowls and walk away and no one eats without the command (although I've seen the occasional quivering lips). Have all members of the family do this. From time to time hand feed. That's awesome for teaching gentleness and literally the idea that we do not bite the hand that feeds us. Also, once you've firmly gotten this stuff down, pet gently while eating. Even though we have never had food aggression or guarding (I credit this technique for it) we still make sure that we put hands into food bowls at least once or twice a week, since it is good practice for them. We also take the bowls up when they are not finished (and then return them) just to make sure they are clear that this is something we can do and they are not allowed to fuss. You can use the ownership stuff with the cats too. You stand facing your dog between him and the cats, walk forward, and make him submit to you (sit, lay down). It will take some repetition but he will get the idea that you are in charge of the cats too. We have done a lot of this to stop the crazy barking at the window. I do the - I own the window and you will submit to me - stuff. It seems to work for a week and then it needs reinforcement, but the barking has significantly decreased overall. I am definitely a fan of this. It works great. You might want to give it a try. It is definitely one of the all time best strategies we have ever adopted. And it works for so many things. The stare and walk forward will get you submission and a calm sitting dog at doorways, when you want to put on a leash or collar, before getting into the car. I even use it on Rudy before I will open the door to his crate. He does not fly out when the door is open. He sits patiently and waits for me to say it is okay. It is not to be harsh, but it is really nice to have a dog who listens, and this will achieve it a thousand times faster than any obedience class in the world. (And I know this because Evil Puppy AKA Hudson did nine rounds of obedience to the tune of nearly a thousand bucks, but when we started doing the submission stuff for more than just food we found out that he is actually a REALLY NICE DOG...I never saw that one coming.) |
| Hi Tracie Brilliant advice about getting him to sit and stay. He does naturally sit when we present him with the food bowl but I think we could get him to 'stay' for a bit longer before getting the food. That's very good that Hudson and Rudy wait for your command. Hubby has been stroking him whilst eating now and has been taking the bowl away too over the past couple of days.Hand feeding sounds like a good idea too. The peeing beside the bowl is a bit worrying as tonight we weren't near him whilst eating and he pee'd. Not sure what that's all about, only started in the past couple of days. The poor cats are being very patient with him. It's like they are saying to themselves 'his bark his worse than his bite' but just today he is actually snapping at them. So we are definitely going to try standing between him and them and getting him to submit. Its a big learning curve. Thanks for quick reply. Your two are gorgeous by the way. |
Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place, as the folks on here are awesome, and very knowledgeable. (Not me so much, but others.....  ) Asgard is a cutie!I have no experience with the growling, or resource guarding that he seems to be doing, but others have and will certainly chime in on that score. Just a thought about the urination. It sounds like anxiety to me, caused by the fact that he's not sure exactly what's going to happen. He might think you're going to take the food away, or he might think he's going to be yelled at or punished, which leads him to be insecure and fearful. Both of our OES craved boundaries, and only acted out when they didn't know what was expected of them. It sounds like you are practicing the "alpha roll", when you put him on his back. I tried this early on with Oscar, and found it to be extremely counter-productive. Instead of calming him, it only ramped up his anxiety and made his behavior worse. I stopped it quickly, and started to use more positive reinforcement to reward good behavior. I found that tactics like the alpha roll made our relationship adversarial, rather than cooperative, and I didn't like that at all. Oscar responded so much better to food rewards, play rewards, and "good boys". Oscar is very well trained. (He's deaf, so in addition to regular obedience, he is trained never to exit a door or car with out a specific sign, for his own safety.) The two keys to training Oscar: consistency, and remaining calm, even in the face of a crazy, biting, clawing whirling dervish. (He was a pistol!) I found that the angrier and more frustrated I became, the worse Oscar's behavior. As I made a concerted effort to remain calm and in control in our interactions, it calmed everything down. It wasn't always easy, and I wasn't always successful,  but it changed the tenor of our relationship.Hope to see you here often, sharing stories about Asgard and how well-behaved he's become!  Laurie and Oscar, the Knucklehead |
| Simon did the growling about food when he was younger. He's five now and the last time he growled it was about a year ago. What I do when he does this is hand feed him, or just sit on the floor with the bowl in my hand and dip my hand in every once in awhile. I'm sorry about the submissive peeing. Or is it? Does your pup get to go out before he eats? |
| Thanks, he definitely is a cutie!! They all are Thank you all for your suggestions!! I think you are probably right about the anxiety thing although don't know why it suddenly started as the food hadn't been taken away or he hasn't been yelled at or punished. We are just learning what boundaries to set and how to set them so the anxiety probably stems somewhat from our uncertainty too!! It's definitely good training for having children too Asgard definitely responds to praise and toy rewards more so than food. If I use the toys as rewards should he play with them at other times, or do I keep one specifically for training? Any suggestions on good food treats? We've stopped putting him on his back as that wasn't working.Just wondering if it's a bad idea to play tig with him with his own towel? He enjoys it so much but will he generalise to all towels  We've been trying the approach suggested about standing between him and the cats etc. and that seems to be working a treat, significantly less barking today = happier cats I think I'm going to start short sessions on the simple commands today i.e. sit, stand, heel. I think this is appropriate at 13 weeks, but I could be wrong. It's a whole new world |
Jillbo100 wrote: Asgard definitely responds to praise and toy rewards more so than food. If I use the toys as rewards should he play with them at other times, or do I keep one specifically for training? Any suggestions on good food treats? We've stopped putting him on his back as that wasn't working.Just wondering if it's a bad idea to play tig with him with his own towel? He enjoys it so much but will he generalise to all towels Probably  There are special tug toys for dogs. I have a few and they live on top of my fridge (in my training bag) Long story...  A couple of caveats in regards to tugging and puppies in particular: 1) never actively tug back except maybe with the slightest of resistance movements, and especially not side to side. Puppy necks are particularly vulnerable to the whiplash effect. He should do the tugging because then he controls the motion. Safer. 2) puppies have puppy teeth (well, duh, right?) They won't always be all that keen on tugging depending on on what's going on in their mouth. That's OK. 3) tugging is great for building confidence in dogs that lack confidence. That said, basic rules still apply: you initiate the game, you end the game. That part is not up to him. What comes in between he has a lot of control over. But when you say "give" or whatever your end game word is, he must release the tug (says she who has a four year old, a nine year old and a two year old whom all have to have the tug toy pried out of their mouths But the point is, and that's really not the ideal, they have to let you take the toy from them without mouthing you or anything like that.)4) I'm not sure how I'd feel about teaching tug with kids in the house since some puppies may not only mistake the towels but also the kid's for tug toys  Then again, if you're consistent about what he can and cannot tug on, that can be overcome.Though I'm a huge proponent of tugging I do it only sparingly with puppies. Retrieve is a good game. Just insist he brings whatever back to you and gives it to you. Throw low so he isn't jumping up in the air trying to snatch it (nice way to get hurt). As for his resource guarding and anxiety, all of the above is good advice. I'd also take it one step further, same some yummy left overs from your dinner (cut up pieces of steak, chicken?) and as you walk by his bowl while he's eating, casually drop a piece in. Repeat periodically. That teaches him that not only do you NOT want his food, when you approach even BETTER stuff appears. Wow! You really can't beat that in your average puppy brain. You can have everyone in the household be the bearer of good tidings in turn. Make it casual but consistent and he'll get over it. Kristine |
| Hi all After a brilliant day yesterday where Asgard was brilliant around the cats and submitted for food x3 we have had a really bad morning. When Jonny put the food out this morning Asgard sat but then kept getting up to the food as Jonny put it down rather than waiting for the eat command. Jonny kept lifting the food up and getting Asgard back to sitting position. But each time Asgard did not wait for the command. I'm not sure how long this went on for as I was having a lie in but eventually Asgard started growling and then snapping. Jonny gave him a couple of breaks to get him to calm down but then Asgard actually attacked him as he was putting the food down. He had rips in his sleeve when he came in to wake me up. He tried it again and this time Asgard bit his hand. He went back to try again. It seemed to work but when Jonny tried to stroke him while he was eating he growled and snapped so he took the food away. Asgard went mad on him growling jumping at him and biting him. At this point I put a leash on him and Jonny did as before only with oven gloves on for protection!! This time as Jonny put his hand towards the bowl to indicate he could eat and said eat at the same time he really went for Jonny managing to rip the very sturdy oven gloves we have with his teeth while I was trying to hold him back with the lead. The only way Jonny could get him off was by slapping him on the nose with one of the oven gloves. We were both shaken up by this. We put Asgard out in the back yard to give us all some breathing space. When he came back in he sat, waited and went to the bowl on command. I am worried that this was a bad attack and if he's like this at the moment what damage could he do to us when older and stronger. He is getting lots of positive reinforcement and exercise and is generally very good other than with the cats and food. One of the cats went to sniff his empty bowl earlier and he ran across the room to it and snapped at the cat, what might he do if we weren't about!! Am I over exaggerating or is this severe food aggression and if so now that he's turned on Jonny is there no going back. Even when he had finished his food and Jonny approached him beside the bowls he snapped and growled. I will be feeding him later as Jonny is away out and hope it goes well  If we get him to sit, stay and wait for command is that enough at the moment without trying to stroke him etc while he's eating. I have read a few things about it being a bigger issue of dominance. The only area we are being too soft with him is probably letting him spend most of the day with us rather than putting him in the back yard for short spells, although I have started this over the past few days. He doesnt like it but I'm sort of taking the be cruel to be kind approach. My husband works from home and I am finishing my thesis so am at home most of the time too at the moment. He sleeps in the kitchen at night and seems to be happy enough with that. We crated him initially in a heavy duty fabric crate the pet shop recommended but he managed to break out of it. He does seem to be a very strong willed puppy but I love him to bits. Should we go back to crating in a metal cage? The breeder reported no problems with his mum and dad, saying they were great dogs and Asgard himself was used with cats and children. I can only assume its something we are doing that isn't going down well! Any advice welcome. Jill, Jonny and Asgard |
| Hi Phantom Zone, you really do have a problem with the food aggression, it is unusal to hear such a youngster is displaying such aggression when it comes to food. My suggestion is maybe now if you can get a behaviourlist in to assess what happens especially with Jonny when meals are fed to give one on one advice on how to deal with this situation before the dog gets bigger and the attacks get more serious, at the moment they are very serious, especially with Jonny so in the meantime I would suggest you feed him in the crate or in a room where you can close the door till he is finished, let him out after and well away from the crate or room when you remove his bowl. Leave no food around especially kitty food to inflame the situation, when feeding the kitty Asgard is in the crate or well away from the kitty bowl and bowl taken up before he is allowed out at the moment with regards to his display of aggression around food till you can get some professional advice. Same with his bowl and the kitty as soon as Asgard is finished leave no bowl around for the kitty to even think of sniffing. You really do need professional help with this youngster before it turns into a very serious situation. |
| I agree with Lisa. You need to bring a humane dog trainer into your home to help you get back on the right track... don't hesitate because each week that passes, the puppy is getting bigger and stronger and more confident because he's learning through trial and error what works. He's stepped way beyond the bounds with his recent behavior. Does the puppy 100% know the sit/stay command? If not, is it fair to request this? I'm afraid the puppy sees the bowl being put down, picked up, put down, picked up, etc. as a tease and is actually harming the trust and bond you have. And is there a reason you're trying to pet the puppy while it's eating? Working up to a quick pat might be ok once you've worked through dropping pieces of cooked meat into the bowl... it might be a good thing to work on between meals when the puppy isn't ravenous (take an empty dish with a couple of pieces of kibble in it and give it to the puppy... from a safe distance, drop in the cooked meat with some verbal cue). It's a trust building exercise when you drop good things into their bowls. The bottom line is that dogs deserve to eat in peace and not feel threatened by our presence. I love/hate crates... they are mandatory here for new dogs and puppies for a minimum of the first 6 months. We use the metal crates. http://oesusa.com/index.1307.jpg Each dog is different so different training methods may be needed to achieve the results you hope for. Please keep us posted? |
| I was thinking the same thing about the bowl going up and down in front of him. If someone was doing it to me I would get frustrated. He might not have really understood what was being asked of him. A trainer would give you a better idea as to how to go about overcoming this feeding issue. I only occasionally go and give Bella a little pet while she is eating and only as I am leaving so that she knows I am going to work. Otherwise at dinner time no pets. I use the pet just to indicate I am leaving the house and will be back in a while. Definitely get some outside help before someone gets hurt or bad habits get ingrained. |
| Hi all, I was on Jonny's computer when I posted the other day so probably confused you when I posted as phantom zone. Since the last post I have fed him a number of times without removing the bowl as has Jonny. I have been putting little treats in his bowl while he's eating and this seems to be going ok. The night of the 'incident' I fed him (Jonny was away) and after he sat as I was putting the bowl down he started barking at me but did not bite or growl etc. I was washing the dishes which is quite near his bowl and he seemed ok with that. I then sat down in the kitchen and i could see he was looking at me sporadically. I presume this was because he feared I'd take the bowl away. Both of us now put the bowl down when he responds to sit as he has not mastered the stay command so it is unfair to train him with this whilst eating. I really think he didn't understand what was being asked of him and did see the bowl being taken away as teasing. We can both take the bowl away after he has finished eating without problems. I think we were petting him during stroking as this had been recommended to get him used to our presence but we are not doing that now. The cats are fed wet food in a shed outside and are brought in during the day. Their kibble is out of Asgard's reach so no problems that way, however I'm wondering if he doesn't see them eating does he think he is higher in the pecking order than them. Yuki (cat) walked by his bowl when no food was in it and he snapped at him, also earlier today when he was eating a treat in the kitchen Loki (cat) walked into the kitchen and Asgard darted and snapped at him. The cats are now ignoring his barking at them. When I stroke the cats he barks a lot and tries to get over to us and nudge the cat away or snap at them. He appears to be trying to herd Yuki (our most docile cat). The other two swipe him so he mostly does not physically come close to them but barks from a distance. Within the past couple of days he has begun nipping at other dogs when he is out and about, previously he just smelt them. As new puppy owners we are unsure if this is acceptable behaviour or not, or if he is playing. I just pull him back from the other dog when this happens. Additionally my friend began stroking his head as he was falling asleep and he snapped at her finger and broke skin. I am unsure if this is unacceptable as perhaps I should have stopped her stroking him as he was falling asleep. He has also began growling at me when I am taking a toy away from him. additionally when I leave him in the kitchen for short periods of time by himself he wee's on the floor even if he has just been out for a wee. Is this trying to get his own way or could it be anxiety?? We are worried about going back to the crate idea as we don't want to upset things further as we feel we got the feeding thing wrong and confused him. I think your all right about getting a behaviourist in especially if we do introduce a crate again. I will try to track one down over the next few days. Again thanks for all the advice. |
Jillbo100 wrote: Hi all, Within the past couple of days he has begun nipping at other dogs when he is out and about, previously he just smelt them. As new puppy owners we are unsure if this is acceptable behaviour or not, or if he is playing. I just pull him back from the other dog when this happens. Additionally my friend began stroking his head as he was falling asleep and he snapped at her finger and broke skin. I am unsure if this is unacceptable as perhaps I should have stopped her stroking him as he was falling asleep. He has also began growling at me when I am taking a toy away from him. additionally when I leave him in the kitchen for short periods of time by himself he wee's on the floor even if he has just been out for a wee. Is this trying to get his own way or could it be anxiety?? You have more then food aggression going on here and at 13 weeks old should not be this way, starting to nip at other dogs, snapping at visitors fingers and breaking the skin, all this needs consultation with a trainer to sort out what is going on. Not normal temperament for one so young he is very unpredictable at the moment and glad you are seeking professional help to sort this out before he turns into a big boy that can do more damage. You need to sort this out ASAP otherwise it is only going to progress to more and more serious problems especially with visitors to your home or even at children while out and about. Keep us posted on how it goes and also what the trainer suggests for him & yourself to deal with his unpredictable nature he is displaying at the moment. Maybe even a Vet check too, to make sure no underlying medical problems causing him to be this way, ie. Hearing OK, Seeing OK no soreness on his body like a pull or strain making him grumpy or even a UTI going on with him weeing on the floor after being outside to wee. Rule those out firstly. In the meantime especially with Yuki dont leave asgards empty bowl on the floor, take it up after he has finished eating then no temptations to go at Yuki for even walking past an empty bowl. Remove it and you remove that problem for the time being. |
Jillbo100 wrote: Hi all, This is my first post but have been reading for a few weeks since we got Asgard our now 13 week old OES!! We've had him about 4 weeks now and I'm in love. He's really settling in now, but was quite sick a couple of weeks ago, my husband posted about this. He's fully recovered now Over the past couple of days he has begun to snap, growl and bark at us when we go within about half a metre of him when he's eating. He wet himself a couple of times too as if he thought we were going to take the food of him. We are now stroking him while he's eating to get him used to us being near. He has also barked and snapped at our three cats when they go near him while he's eating. This is our first dog, so we aren't sure if this is normal behaviour, dominance or aggression. Just wondering if anyone has experienced this before? I posted about this exact problem the other day but you got way more responses than I did. Our puppy is three months old and having similar aggression with food, especially around the kids. Our method has been this, and it seems to be helping: 1. Use a clicker (teach the puppy about it first--you can read online or get a book from the library). 2. Ask the puppy to sit. If no growling, quickly click, put the food bowl down, walk away. 3. Wait about 15 second and get a small (size of a marble) piece of chicken or other really good treat. Approach puppy while he is eating. Stand about three feet away (and do this very quickly--don't stand around for two minutes waiting for him to growl). If he doesn't growl, quickly click, toss the chicken into the bowl, walk away. If he does growl, do not click and treat. Try standing a little farther away next time to start and do the same method, clicking and tossing the chicken into the bowl if he doesn't growl. Gradually move closer every couple of days if no growling. Remember to toss the chicken into the bowl, don't put your hand down there (just in case!). The goal is to move up to dropping the chicken into the bowl, then eventually (after a few weeks?) be able to actually pick the bowl up, put the chicken in it, then set the bowl back down. Our puppy never growls at me. But it's clear he thinks my kids are other puppies and he treats them as such. It's a little scary and was not expected in a puppy this young. The click method does seem to be helping. We want the puppy to see the kids as being in charge of food, not other pups in competition for food. As for the peeing, our pup has not done this, but I fear that it may start, as he goes into a submissive squat whenever being petted by a new person. |
Quote: I posted about this exact problem the other day but you got way more responses than I did. We brought in a new boy a few weeks back and have had 3 in the pack with diarrhea. I've posted since then but have been distracted. My apologies. |
| With our 7 month old sheepie, Brodie, we've had a bit of trouble with possessive growling and biting as well as jumping from all directions and wrapping his legs around me! Whenever we're carrying something, he wants it--and is very happy to jump his 80 pounds of puppyhood all over us. At one point he bit my hand, and I needed stitches. Scary. We took him to a professional trainer who said he was "a big goofy teenager who thinks a little too highly of himself." She suggested having him sit and stay before anything--eating, going outside, initiating play by bringing a toy, getting a treat, etc. This is for him to remember that he's not the boss. It's slowly starting to help, but he has a ways to go. |
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