need HELP....with my SHURTLE!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!
""DEADLY"", because, if I don't fix this, it will be the death of my left thumb!!! As many of you know, I am recommitted to a successful Excellent Rally run. To that end, my mentor, Judi, has offered her help and expertise, which I have accepted with much gratitude.  Heart has a very bad habit of killing my (and any one elses) fingers when offered a treat, especially when we are in the middle of training. As anyone knows, when you are training, walking briskly, back straight, head up and come to a stop and your dog sits 'perfectly', you treat with a "Good Dog"!! "Good to Sit" or, as you are teaching a 3 steps back, and for the first time, your dog executes this exercise without errors...again....JACKPOT!!!!! treat, treat, treat...then you go on... With Heart it's...give her the treat...ow..ow...OWWWWWW~!!!!!!! stop, kiss my thumb, say NOOOOO>>>> and go on ...(kind of stops the flow, ya know??) I have tried to ..........yell OW, which is NOT hard to do!!!!!  ...withhold the treat until I get a soft mouth ... bop her nose, which makes her melt to the floor in horror, shutting her down for, at least 10 minutes. ...tried the closed fist method ..tried wearing a winter knit glove, which helps alot, but it's hard to grab the small bits of treats, not to mention it looks rediculous, especially in 100 degree heat! ..and so many more, I can't count. I was willing to accept my pain,but now, a stranger is involved. (Judi)..and I cannot stand to see her hurt as she is trying to help me soo much~ So, dear forum members...any quick fixes to this awful, painful problem will be greatly appreciate!!!!!!! GREATLY!!!!!! thank you! |
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| I would hold the treat so that she can only smell it, not get it, you may get a few nips first but once she is only sniffing or licking instead of biting then let the treat out about a half an inch and let her nibble just the end of it etc and when she is gentle say gentle and good girl and then let her have it. |
Willowsprite wrote: I would hold the treat so that she can only smell it, not get it, you may get a few nips first but once she is only sniffing or licking instead of biting then let the treat out about a half an inch and let her nibble just the end of it etc and when she is gentle say gentle and good girl and then let her have it. Great advice. That is exactly what I had to do with my Berner.. he was THE worst at taking treats. |
| Only thing I can add is that I noticed awhile ago that if I hold a treat up Jenny will be a little snappy, but not hurt, when I offer it down she takes it gently. Not sure why, but that's what works for me. |
| and make sure you offer it BELOW the level of her mouth. She is much less likely to make the lunge and snap if it's below her. You may need to practice - lowering the hand closed, them opening and offering the treat when it's below her chin. You may also want to try using a tug as reward instead of a treat at times. It's another way to reward and let her vent that energy at the same time. It really helps Chewie. |
| Tug or Hug Dawn? |
SheepieBoss wrote: Tug or Hug Dawn? Tug - but I'm all for hugs too!  Poor Chewie gets lots of hugs  - and I bet he'd rather have the tug some of the time  |
| What do you mean by a tug as a reward? |
| We have a similar problem with Violet and the way we corrected it is holding the treat below her mouth so she comes down instead of snapping up. |
| Thanks to all of you, ((so far)) with suggestions.. I do give the treat in a cupped hand, under her mouth in normal circumstances. Much easier and no snapping or grabbing. But in a training situation, we are taught to bring the treat donw the seam of the left pant leg and , as the dog is LOOKING at you...treat them.This is where my problem lies...if I treat under her mouth, that would mean that I would have to bend over and stop the flow of the exercises. Does this make sense???? |
The problem with feeding them the treat below the mouth is it forces them to drop their head. Heart and Harry have enough issues with this in the ring and I was advised to treat with the head up at the side seam of your pants for obedience.  Val, I just had an idea. Perhaps you can work on learning to take treats independent of class and homework. For example while sitting on the couch or a chair. What we want to teach her is "gentle" just like she is already learning the word "close". We can use the clicker for this. Let's start tonight before or after we go to class depending on what time we leave as determined by the weather. |
| Ha ha - at least we both got the seam thing out of this class. It actually has helped me with Harry in both obedience and rally. I think it has helped Heart's crooked sit too. Otherwise you are pulling them out of position. |
| I would just get Judi a falconer's glove. http://www.gleneagles.com/media/42449/m ... _eagle.jpg |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^but....they don't come in colors, Jill~~~~ Would love a neon pink one!!!!  Judi....We are one the same page with this issue. Last night, I sat down with very tiny treats. If Heart, grabbed and 'got' my thumb I would say OW...(which I have said before...alot) and pull back. She would get a 'click' AND the treat as she gently took it from me. She seemed to be using her tongue, kind of like an anteater to SLURP the treat in her mouth. Did the same thing this moring~! Seemed to be catching on but she is still snapping at times. Two added issues now.... With the Rally training, Obedience training, side training with Judi AND snappy training ~~~ Heart may become the fattest dog in the SHOW ME state in no time flat...  AND::::: How do I combine the words::::::: TURTLE////SHARK///ANTEATER!!!! |
| Yeah... teach "gentle" with an marker to let her know she's done what you want. I use "YES!" when the dog has done the behavior I'm looking for only because I never remember to carry a clicker. Still, when they're all excited, they can often revert. My Border Collie at age 12 needs a reminder sometimes when everyone's together to get a treat. If say "gentle" first, then hand her the treat, she does good. My fingers were so darn painful because of Bumble's sharp new teeth and his rough treat taking. He's so much better but needs a refresher occasionally. Have you tried tucking the treat between the base of two fingers, then dropping your hand to your side with your palm toward her? Kind of a modified cupping of the treat. You can do it with one hand, grab a treat and use your thumb to position it... I stick it between my middle finger and my wedding band finger... just move your finger a bit to release the treat as the dog makes contact. http://oesusa.com/CupIt.jpg It helps to prevent the treat from falling out of your hand and your finger tips are kept away from those teeth  |
| Val - and Judi - I totally understand your treat on the fly and having her look up, not down. We do the same thing - it's a standard training technique. But - Heart already has the bad habit of taking fingers with the treat (part of the treat - a finger or two.. ), so it does need to be addressed - separately. Best case scenario is if the treat/hand grabbing had been addressed as a puppy, and you wouldn't be stuck dealing with this now.  And because you are trying to build her up and make her more happy, you are literally asking to have the old "shark" behavior return as well. She's going to be excited (what you want) and tend to just grab (what you don't want). It's a fine line to walk I found that using the tug periodically as we are in class lets Chewie vent and settles him. It puts him in a much better frame of mind. You need to teach her tug 1st, and the release. When she likes it and releases it, then you can add it in as a praise. We never tugged until less than 2 years ago, and now Chewie likes it better than any treat. He will do virtually anything and do it really really well if he gets to tug. It's wonderful. Cures the muleness, big time! I use it alot if there is something new, or an old issue he is struggling with. When he gets it and I whip out his tug, he is SOOO happy and it really cements in what we did. Then if we use treats for the smaller stuff, he is better with that too. I think it really helps those that feel the need to touch us with their teeth...... |
| Hi Val, I wasnt around yesterday but I would have suggested you teach Heart "gentle" and "wait". Tiggy is a shurteater too! Christmas before last I was wearing nail polish all the time (I dont usually as I keep them short so I dont scratch my patients) because my nails were horrible especially my left hand. Tiggy kept snapping her treats and would get the nail right down near the nail bed. OWWWWW!!! and damage caused to the nail bed which leaves a white spot in the nail as it grows out. They were just one big mess of white spots and raggedy quick. To train gentle I spent ages not letting her have the treat until she took it gently. She still occasionally forgets if Rastus is sitting next to her. Its a case of "OMG what if he gets my treat first?" But usually she is really good. I also taught her wait so I could hold the treat near her face and her not take it until I said ok. This seemed to teach her better self control and she realised the treat would still be there in 10 seconds so it wasnt essential to snatch it the second it came within range. Good luck I hope you and Judi keep all your fingers.  PS the glove should be white or silver and I will call you Michael from now on.  |
| DAWN:::: Quote: Best case scenario is if the treat/hand grabbing had been addressed as a puppy, and you wouldn't be stuck dealing with this now.  I know...I am a BADDDDD mommie!!!!! But,these last 3 years have been crazy, hectic, wild...and any other word that applies!!! I have been so busy with my training for therapy...Dog Scouts...Rally...Obedience..not to mention the STLOES Club, Judi and Sheepiepalooza in 09..Heart's formative years, the 'little' things like paper shredding, attacking Coz, shark biting, stuffie terminating were all swept under the rug........ ((my defense and I am sticking to it!!!!!)) But now, I am ready to (re)train on her snapping fingers along with treats...THEN we will work on her attacking Coz any time she comes in the house..... ((((one baby step at a time))))..... |
| MIM!!!! It looks likes, once more, Tiggy and Heart were separated at birth!!! I can see from Tiggy's agility post that she falls into her old ways when she is excited!! So, I gues the best I can hope for is developing calluses on my left thumb!! HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm.. I wonder if I spray bitter apple on my thumb, maybe that would inhibit her from taking my flesh along with the treat??????? |
| What about that yukky tasting clear nail polish that was supposed to stop nail biting? Can you still get that stuff, we could have stiff, shiny, yukky tasting thumbs. Just don't order any finger food, strictly cutlery only. |
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