Deaf OES
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| A vet should be able to check out the eyes for you and let you know if your suspicions are correct. As for training/living with a deaf dog, I'm not an expert, but I know that there are several people on this board who have had great success with these special sheepies. I'm sure you'll get excellent advice here. Have you talked with the breeder yet? He/she may have some advice, and at the very least should want to know. Congrats on your new addition. What's her name? |
| I knew there was a thread about this somewhere! http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28932&hilit=deaf+dogs Check out the link, it's very helpful with the pros/cons of having a deaf or blind dog. |
| Her name is Zoie and she is very special...how do i upload a pic of her? |
| Aaaw, what a cute name! Here is the link to posting pictures http://forum.oes.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6185 |
| How cute of a name...Zoie! Good for the children to use signs! I am a sign language interpreter so naturally I taught my other golden Holly sign, she knew at least 30 signs, names of friends dogs, home, car, cat, food, swim, sleep, my name, my husband's name....it worked great because I never had to yell in afield, she could see me and know what I wanted her to do. As she aged she lost lots of her hearing and could not hear my voice, she still heard my husband's. As for ideas to help Zoie. When she is sleeping, asnd you want to wake her, tap the crate lightly or flash the lights. We have deaf bunny now and he knows 3 signs, food, come, bed. I use the flash light to get his attention from under the couch. You too could do this, take a flashlight or laser) to the park, she will learn quick to look for the light and then your command. I hope with Zoie her eyesight allows her to at least see your hands and moving light. So glad you are able to welcome Zoie into your family! Keep us posted on her progress. peg |
We actually did have one one dog surrendered to rescue because the parents-to-be were concerned that their deaf dog would be startled by the baby and possibly be harmed. Parents need to be vigilant in watching their kids around any animal. Don't let the dog be startled. Pegspup had some great hints for that.  Deaf or blind dogs are just as intelligent and loving as a sighted or hearing dog, sometimes even more because there can be an even stronger bond between them and their people. You just have to remember to never let a sight or hearing impaired dog off-leash in an area that is not securely fenced. Only use a physical fence, not the electronic kind. There are several people here with dogs with such physical limitations that are very willing to share what they've learned.Ask your vet for a referral to a veterinary ophthalmologist to have Zoie's eye's CERF (Canine Eye Registration Foundation) tested. CERF testing will screen for a variety of conditions and diseases of the eyes. It's no more invasive than a human having their eyes dilated and observed and the last time we had it done it cost under $50. To test for the degree of deafness requires a BAER test. (Brainstem Auditory Evoked Response) There are several sites in Michigan listed that do BAER testing: http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/baersite.htm Your veterinarian may have a recommendation. |
| Zoie is adorable! Our Oscar is deaf, and we've had him since he was 10 weeks old (he's now 6 years old). If you haven't already gotten it, I highly recommend the book "Living With a Deaf Dog" by Susan Cope Becker, which I found on amazon.com. It's a good resource and contains alot of useful info for dealing with a deaf dog. Could you explain what you mean by spooked and startled? Is she nervous even if she sees you coming, or is it just when she is touched unexpectedly? As far as Zoie being startled, you might want to try startle therapy with her, to help desensitize her to an unexpected touch. It is explained much better in Cope Becker's book, but the basic premise goes like this. Find a treat that Zoie just loves, loves, loves. When she is looking in another direction, gently touch her back, and when she turns around to see what's up, quickly give her the treat. The thought process behind this is that she will begin to associate being touched unexpectedly with getting a treat, or something good happening, so she will be less likely to react negatively. We did this with Oscar when he was a young puppy, and, while it's sometimes impossible not to surprise him, he has NEVER responded in an aggressive or inappropriate manner. I would be careful in starting this with Zoie though, if you feel that she is already nervous or anxious for other reasons. We also make an effort to let Oscar know where we are. If he's paying attention to something else, and I need him to look at me, I stomp on the floor (we have hardwood, carpet and tile). He has learned to look around when he feels me stomping. (Some people slide a toy across the floor to get a deaf dog's attention, but that never worked for us.) It's a good idea to have her eyes checked. If there is something going on, and it can be helped with meds, better to know sooner rather than later. I'm sure you know this already, but I'm going to mention it anyway. Please keep Zoie's hair around her eyes trimmed. It is especially important for deaf pups to be able to see every possible thing that is going on around them. Nita mentioned the BAER Test, which is the only approved diagnostic tool available to determine truly whether a dog is deaf or just ignoring you. I think the BAER Test may be helpful if you think your dog is unilaterally deaf (only one ear) as opposed to bilaterally deaf (both ears), or if you feel your dog might be able to hear certain pitches and not others. Then the BAER Test can help you determine if there are tools out there that you can use to help your dog, like a dog whistle. Normally I am all about the diagnostic testing, but we did not do this test on Oscar for the simple reason that it was glaringly obvious that Oscar could not hear a thing. (Two days after he came home, he slept next to an air duct that was being whipped with a metal brush to clean it out. The noise was so loud I had to leave the room, but he didn't even open his eyes.) I hope this info has been helpful. Feel free to PM me if you have an questions. Laurie and Oscar |
| Our Scruffy Duffie is also deaf - and I will second everything that Oscar's Mom said! I also suggest the book - my husband, daughter & I all read it and now that I think about it, I think my mom still has it! Waking him while he's sleeping - we gently place our hand on his hind quarters & smooth him - all our family know that if he's sleeping, either leave him or do this. It took conditioning, but is so worth it as he doesn't startle, he's to the point where he looks to see who it is before deciding if he wants to get up! If he's asleep in his crate when we get home, we have opening it without waking him down to an art then, we just leave the door open & let him wake on his own. He know who his "family" is but he's attached himself to me & when we go for a walk he always wants to know where I am & looks for me. If I leave the house while he's sleeping, when he wakes up he searches the house & barks for me. My husband & daughter feel negelected when he does this! We also have another dog, almost the same age, and they are best buddies. Duffie watches Barks & reacts the same way - when Barks jumps up & looks at the front door, Duff's up & doing the same thing. Our favorite "trick" is when we flash the outside light, just once, he knows its time to come in. And I also second keeping the hair away from their eyes but will let you know that mis-informed & uneducated strangers will continually tell you that you are wrong! Enjoy her, you will never believe the things she comes up with & how she'll make you laugh and shake your head. |
| Hey Duffie's Mom...I was just wondering if your Duffie was adopted from kijiji and was originally named Parker. I followed those posts, and desperately wanted to adopt him, but we had an ailing senior and an evil puppy at the time so we didn't respond to the ad. I always wondered where he ended up and how he was doing. There aren't tons of OES in MB, so I thought I'd ask. |
Quote: Our family bought an OES puppy from Lumbard in Michigan and found her to be deaf.... I sent the breeder info for the last 6 months and she blocked my email. Is the breeder's website even up anymore? Unfortunately, deafness is more likely to happen when breeders specialize and focus too much on producing "white caps and china blue eyes". Do you have the breeder's telephone and cell phone numbers that were advertised online? Please PM me if you don't. Avoidance is NOT the way to address this problem. Most of your baby's fear is surely due to the fact she can't hear nor see well. You might try to always approach her on the side with the eye that seems to be functioning properly, make a gentle vibration on the floor as you approach, then immediately associate this interaction/approach with positive things like a really good treat. So every time someone approaches her will mean good things are coming her way. Have you visited the http://www.DeafDogs.org yet? The site tells how to help desensitize your dog to the natural startle reflex. http://www.deafdogs.org/training/#desensitization I agree with Laurie and Duffie's Mom about the book. If you have any problems finding Living With A Deaf Dog, please let me know and I'll mail you my copy. You need to quickly begin helping her to become a less fearful companion. If you think you need more help, don't wait to bring in a humane trainer with deaf dog experience to help. If she loves other dogs, she may find comfort living with another dog that is more "bomb proof". She may come to look to this other dog as an indicator that everything is ok but it's usually not advisable to get a dog for another dog. Puppy obedience classes may also help. From what I've heard, deaf dogs do tend to be very attached to their family, some keep an eye on them to be sure they're always near by. Kathy too, Donner's Mom, will be able to share also. She currently has two that also do well with their startle reflexes. Unless your purchase agreement specifically says there is no guarantee for a genetic defect (one of mine has such a contract), I'd request a refund. If the breeder is not willing to refund at least part of your money, I'd pursue it in small claims court and also file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. If you are forced to do this and if you win, then share the outcome of the case publicly. Breeders who continue to make bad decisions need to be held accountable for the dogs they're producing and the public deserves to know. I'm so tired of people breeding dogs for the wrong reasons. Things can show up in lines... it's ALL about what a breeder does after this happens. They need to be there to support the family and to reevaluate their breeding program whenever something appears. I'm sure this doesn't need to be said but she needs a secure fenced in area to play in and must always be on a leash when taken off the properly. Please keep us posted. She will become an even greater companion with your help. |
| Hi Tracie, Not sure if he was on kijiji, but his vet papers we got from Funds For Furry Friends (a local rescue) once we passed the trial period and were officially his owners indicate he was neutered in Winnipeg & his name was Parker. So I would guess its the same boy! There was an adjustment period, as I'm sure there is with every rescue animal, but here we are just over 1.5 years later & he doesn't pace indoors or out anymore & hasn't "piddled" in the house in probably a year! It's still a battle to groom him, but even that is better than when we first got him. He makes us smile and makes strangers smile! We love our OES and have even discussed the possibility of rescuing another one in a few years if an opportunity should arise, but as you said they aren't very common around here so we'll see what happens. For what its worth I'm thrilled you passed on him because we love him! AND by passing on him you were able to rescue another deserving boy - your Rudy!  Thanks for asking, Rochelle |
| "Thankyou" to everyone for your kindness and advice. We have read the book and followed many of the practices and suggestions. Zoie is a blessing for our family as she gives more insight into love and affection then most humans!! As far as the "breeder" I made an offer to her of a settlement of $200 of the $800 we paid for Zoie and she promised in 2 emails to send the check after she sold another litter on puppyfind.com. She hasn't paid and has blocked my emails as she firmly believes our family must have done something to make Zoie deaf! I am well off financially so its not about $$...it's about ethics and morality... so I filed a lenghty complaint with the BBB in Michigan...we live in Upstate NY.She also tells me she doesn't own the business,,,her mother does even though the ads are in her name...(Patti Lombard of Lombards' OES in Kalamazoo Michigan)...so I sent that info on to the fraud unit of the Michigan Unemployment Unit. I also emailed puppyfind.com letting them know of her false "Health Guarantee" and how she treated us. The "breeder" pulled her add before I could leave a comment on her site but I am sure she is on other sites and will be back. Zoie is lying by my feet as I type this and I feel good about coming to her defense. This is our families 2nd OES and the 1st time we went thru an established breeder...learn from us.... ed n family |
| Zoie sounds like a sweetie pie. Ok, don't even know where to begin with the breeder. Based upon your information here, this breeder is hardly reputable, and I'm glad you have notified the BBB, etc. As Jaci stated, anyone purposely advertising and breeding for "snow caps" with blue eyes is running a higher risk of congenital deafness. The fact that she is trying to blame you for Zoie's deafness defies all logic. How old is Zoie now? Her skittishness might be a phase/stage she's going through, but it's important to be steady, solid and consistent when dealing with her. Sometimes dogs become anxious because either they don't know what to expect, or they don't know what's expected of them. Oscar tends to get anxious when we mess with his routine. (We affectionately refer to him as "Rainman".)  You mentioned that you've learned sign and communicate with her that way. Have you done formal obedience training? It might give Zoie structure in her environment and lessen her anxiety. Just some thoughts.Laurie and Oscar |
Quote: The fact that she is trying to blame you for Zoie's deafness defies all logic. Boy, do I agree with Laurie. I'd be asking her exactly how you might have caused this.  I think the breeder's website was taken down. You probably already have a copy of it but if not, please visit the address below for the cached page before Google drops it. It's from May 10, 2010 21:37:42 GMT. I believe this is the same breeder and there is advertising and telephone numbers in case you don't have them. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us Quote: The "breeder" pulled her add before I could leave a comment on her site but I am sure she is on other sites and will be back. Umm... you might make a visit to Puppyfind again. I think you'll find a 13 week old puppy just listed. I'd post the link for you but links to that site are not allowed here. If this is the same breeder, she advertised a litter of 8 born on April 6th, 2010. Just don't allow yourself to get into trouble with what you post! And make sure you save all correspondence in case you need to substantiate anything. You'll love your extra special baby Zoie and give her a great life. Special dogs can make us even more compassionate people. And don't hesitate to bring in a humane trainer if you still need help. Thanks for being Zoie's champion. |
| The listing is still up here: http://www.dogbreederdirectory.com/breeders/MI/11/ Good luck with your girl. It's not her fault where she came from  There are breeders out for profit who don't do their health research and breed homework everywhere and in every breed....unfortunately. $$$$$ and profit are the evils here. |
| Eeks... I got thinking that that other link might not be permitted either   |
| Why does Zoie pace...back n forth... also she has started digging holes...is she bored?? Your idea on the treat as you walk up to her and she startles but now finds the treat is a GREAT idea and I'll try it!! |
| The pacing could be an indicator of boredom, or it could be an indicator of anxiety. Does Zoie get alot of exercise? You might want to do some additional training or obedience work with her, as it exercises her mind as well as her body. If her issue is anxiety, then you might want to be careful about doing the startle therapy, as you want to make sure that you're easing her anxiety, and not increasing it. You might want to read the section about this in "Living With a Deaf Dog". With Oscar, we only approached him when he was calm, and not looking our way. We made sure to touch him very gently, brushing our hand along his lower back, and never abruptly or harshly. When he would turn and look, we would reward him immediately with signing "good boy" and then giving him the treat. The trick is in rewarding a calm response to your touch. You want to be careful about rewarding Zoie if she responds abruptly or negatively, as then you run the risk of rewarding her anxiety. How old is Zoie? Is she a puppy? Laurie and Oscar |
| Again, I agree with Oscar's Mom. In our case we felt that not only the pacing but the piddling in the house & excessive barking were all signs of anxiety. We found that with routine, obedience & exercise all these chalenges eased & pretty much became not existent over time. For Duffie, routine is the biggest factor - feed, sleep / bedtime & walk at the same time. We tried overnight camping in my parents 5th wheel trailer with our boys last summer. That won't EVER be tried again. Just picture our "Big Fuzzy Monster" pacing inside the trailer & barking ALL night!! His bark is so loud & high pitched and inside the trailer it was like it was bouncing off the walls & echoing. We can laugh now, but at the time it was soooooooooooooo frustrating for us & him. |
| Zoie is one year old. I think you may be so right with the boredom perspective. We live on a 90 acre Horse (RESCUE HORSES) Farm and we trained Zoie to stay in a 2 acre area around the house so when we are busy with the horses she digs and paces. She has her ball type of toys outside and a frisbee. I have also found that you either have a dog or a nice grren lawn but not both!! I really appreciate your thoughts!! |
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