1. What is a Chevy Volt? 2. Why do you really want one? |
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Mim wrote: Ok; two questions, 1. What is a Chevy Volt? 2. Why do you really want one? Chevy Volt is an "all electric drive" car that plugs into the house current to charge. It has a large battery pack that also has a small gasoline generator on board to extend the car's range. It will go about 40 miles on battery power alone -- it can go "hundreds of miles" (read: Probably 200-300 max) using the gas the whole way to supplement the battery. 99% of our trips are likely under 40 miles round trip -- food store, errands, shopping mall are all under 20 miles away. Long trips would likely require another car or reting a gas car. We figure if we need to rent a car 2 or fewer times per month for 3 days each it's better than owning another. (It's likely we'd need to rent a car only 4 or 5 times a year, but we're "planning" on 24 just in case.) Unfortunately, the Volt's price tag estimate started in the high $20's, and now is in the mid $40's -- they may be pricing me out of the market. It's due out in November. |
Ron wrote: Mim wrote: Ok; two questions, 1. What is a Chevy Volt? 2. Why do you really want one? Chevy Volt is an "all electric drive" car that plugs into the house current to charge. It has a large battery pack that also has a small gasoline generator on board to extend the car's range. It will go about 40 miles on battery power alone -- it can go "hundreds of miles" (read: Probably 200-300 max) using the gas the whole way to supplement the battery. 99% of our trips are likely under 40 miles round trip -- food store, errands, shopping mall are all under 20 miles away. Long trips would likely require another car or reting a gas car. We figure if we need to rent a car 2 or fewer times per month for 3 days each it's better than owning another. (It's likely we'd need to rent a car only 4 or 5 times a year, but we're "planning" on 24 just in case.) Unfortunately, the Volt's price tag estimate started in the high $20's, and now is in the mid $40's -- they may be pricing me out of the market. It's due out in November. Ron, do you know how much power it sucks up from plugging it in? I always wonder how much of a difference it would be in your monthly electric bill. |
I guess if they use up too much electricity that would be bad. Worth looking into though. Fuel is getting so expensive over here that other options are becoming much more viable. |
I don't know how many KWH they take to charge but both the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf are said to consume the equivalent of a gasoline car getting 150 mpg (that assumes that the power is being generated by fuel oil I suppose). I have read that they can be expected to run about 100 miles on a charge under normal use. So the cost of fuel will depend upon your local cost of electricity and the rate structure. In the US when you exceed the base rate amount you are charged is at a higher rate, which is a disincentive to some degree to having to charge a car on top of your normal appliances. The current crop of plug-in electric cars use lithium-ion batteries like a laptop or cell phone. As we all know cell phone batteries last a few years and then begin to lose the ability to hold a charge. Replacing them isn't a big deal until you realize that the Tesla, an electric sports car made in California on a Lotus chassis, actually uses 1500 laptop batteries. So you have to factor in the cost of replacing the batteries every 4 to 5 years probably, unless the manufacturer covers it under the warrantee. I expect for the near future, plug in electric vehicles will operate close to the annual cost of a small, efficient gasoline car over the long haul. That will probably improve particularly if there is a breakthrough in better battery technology. As some of you know I am a car museum docent. Before WWI there were about as many electric cars in the US as gasoline. They were mostly in-town cars used by women because they didn't need to be crank started. We have a 1912 Raush & Lang electric car at the museum. The 100 year old car runs silently on regular lead acid car batteries and goes about 30 mph for 60 miles on a charge so the idea of all electric cars is really nothing new. It's beautiful, drives from the back seat with a tiller, has a little bud vase on the door pillar, and your friends (or dogs) sit in front facing you so you can talk while you drive. Worse distraction than a cell phone I bet. rfloch wrote: My money gobbling old wreck: By the way, the two pictures of my '34 Auburn are the same car. It goes about 85 mph and gets about 15 mpg and I can fix everything on it. I only pay $60 US to register it each year and my insurance rates are actually lower than my modern cars. Best of all, everyone stays out of my way which is a good thing because they hadn't invented seat belts or turn signals yet. |
ButtersStotch wrote: Ron, do you know how much power it sucks up from plugging it in? I always wonder how much of a difference it would be in your monthly electric bill. Full details haven't been made available that I am aware, however I can give you some idea.They have claimed it is a 16KWh battery pack. *IF* that is accurate (and is likely not very accurate) and *IF* charging is 90% efficient (probably a good guess) and *IF* the battery pack were completely dead (very unlikely) a complete charge would consume about 18KWh. In my neck of the woods that would cost about $2.70 in most other areas of the country right now that would be around $1.80 to $2.00 for the supposed 40 mile charge which is their goal -- 40 miles by battery only at the end of the design life of the battery pack. The numbers are all quite speculative to me; I'm sure GM has a better idea by now. I think the 40 miles for 16KWh is low, especially for a new battery pack. My investigations on this (done several years ago) showed that 300 miles required about 61KWh of energy to move the car (so that doesn't include heaters, lights, windshield washers, stereos, navigation, etc.). So Richard might be on to something. The home charger will likely be smart about things; charging overnight if you have lower overnight rates (I used to be on time-of-day-use; We ran our water heater, dishwasher, laundry and heat (when possible) and everything else possible after 9PM and in return it saved me about 15% on my bill, even though there was an extra $15 monthly customer charge (My electric bill at the time was about $3,500 a year, I don't recall exactly). I have a 240 volt, 40 amp service ready to go in my garage originally wired (and still usable) for my motorhome, just waiting... |
rfloch wrote: I don't know how many KWH they take to charge but both the Chevy Volt and the Nissan Leaf are said to consume the equivalent of a gasoline car getting 150 mpg (that assumes that the power is being generated by fuel oil I suppose). I have read that they can be expected to run about 100 miles on a charge under normal use. The Volt and leaf are very different animals. While they both are completely electric drive (only electricity is used to move the wheels), the leaf is totally battery driven; if you run out of electricity you are stuck until you are towed (likely) or charged (unlikely any time soon) by some service vehicle, or you find a very long extension cord somewhere. The Volt also moves its wheels with electricity alone, but also carries a smallish built in electric generator that runs on gasoline that extends range to "hundreds of miles" (whatever that means) by running while you are driving long distances to supplement the batteries and can recharge the battery pack while you're shopping or resting or whatever. It's quite an ingenious approach, and the software will have to be VERY smart. It will need to know if the trip on which you're about to embark is under 40 miles or longer, since it will want to run the generator to keep the batteries up as much as possible for a long trip, but allow the batteries to become nearly entirely drained if it is a short trip. Also if you're coming close to home don't start the generator, and a million other possibilities. I can appreciate a complex software challenge! rfloch wrote: So the cost of fuel will depend upon your local cost of electricity and the rate structure. In the US when you exceed the base rate amount you are charged is at a higher rate, which is a disincentive to some degree to having to charge a car on top of your normal appliances. That may be true in some areas, but not in others. It is not here; the vast majority of residential customers generally pay a flat rate or a time-of-day rate. By vast majority I mean like 98 or 99%. I don't know the breakdown of flat vs. time-of-day, but since they've tightened the requirements (why, I have no idea) I'd guess that's a pretty small amount. The requirement is over 30,000KWh per year; I used to use 25,000. With the Volt I would undoubtedly go over the 30,000 again so I'd be eligible (I hope) for time-of-day, so I'd be able to charge the Volt at 6 cents instead of 15 cents, which would make the cost MUCH better than gasoline. Then again I wouldn't be paying any taxes on the energy like the over-the-road fuel taxes people pay on their gas and diesel. rfloch wrote: The current crop of plug-in electric cars use lithium-ion batteries like a laptop or cell phone. As we all know cell phone batteries last a few years and then begin to lose the ability to hold a charge. Replacing them isn't a big deal until you realize that the Tesla, an electric sports car made in California on a Lotus chassis, actually uses 1500 laptop batteries. True! But a laptop uses 6 to 8 cells, so it's not QUITE 1,500 times bigger, but it is clearly a whole huge amount of lithium -- the mining of which isn't the best thing in the world. However the batteries ought to be very recyclable at their end-of-life to recover most of that.rfloch wrote: So you have to factor in the cost of replacing the batteries every 4 to 5 years probably, unless the manufacturer covers it under the warrantee. I expect for the near future, plug in electric vehicles will operate close to the annual cost of a small, efficient gasoline car over the long haul. That will probably improve particularly if there is a breakthrough in better battery technology. All very true!rfloch wrote: As some of you know I am a car museum docent. Before WWI there were about as many electric cars in the US as gasoline. They were mostly in-town cars used by women because they didn't need to be crank started. We have a 1912 Raush & Lang electric car at the museum. The 100 year old car runs silently on regular lead acid car batteries and goes about 30 mph for 60 miles on a charge so the idea of all electric cars is really nothing new. It's beautiful, drives from the back seat with a tiller, has a little bud vase on the door pillar, and your friends (or dogs) sit in front facing you so you can talk while you drive. Worse distraction than a cell phone I bet. I'd just LOVE to see that car in action! In fact, I've always wanted to see any cars that steer from a center seating position; just a thing of mine. The rear "tiller" postion must have been inspired by sailboats. rfloch wrote: By the way, the two pictures of my '34 Auburn are the same car. It goes about 85 mph and gets about 15 mpg and I can fix everything on it. I only pay $60 US to register it each year and my insurance rates are actually lower than my modern cars. Best of all, everyone stays out of my way which is a good thing because they hadn't invented seat belts or turn signals yet. Or safety glass...I'm not much of a "car buff" (I am more into the technology of using electric drive -- I'd love to see the electric vehicles) but I do enjoy visiting the museums -- I'll be sure to stop by next time I'm in your neck of the woods. (Sheepdogs allowed to drive?) |
Ron, I am truly impressed by your knowledge. If you are ever in Sacramento, I would be happy to take you through the museum. The management is unfortunately not enlightened about sheepdogs and they are not allowed--males anyway--most of the cars have wide whitewall tires and its not easy to get yellow stains off them. I do have safety glass in all of the windows of my Auburn. Safety glass became common in the 1930's and no one who restores a car would put in plate glass even if it had it to begin with. Much, much too dangerous. |
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