Muzzle help
It's getting to the point that I don't want to let them play together. But when I take them out to the pen separately to play they look at me like I'm a moron. Who wants to play by themselves. They also don't get exercised as hard since there is no desperate chase ensuing. |
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| A basket muzzle is what would work. They are the style that greyhounds use when racing (if it even still is a sport anymore - all the greyhound tracks are closed around here). They sell them at most any pet supply place. |
| Why does Edgar want to chomp Aggie hard when they are outside? It makes me feel confused because Edgar really likes other dogs. He never bites her hard in the house. Aggie is the one usually pestering him and being a royal pain when inside. I feel guilty even considering a muzzle for Edgar. |
| What does Aggie do when Edgar bites at her? Nelson will occasionally go after a foster dog and chase and appear to be biting. When his "victim" bites him back he always backs off. Other dogs fall to the ground and get all submissive. He leaves them alone as well. With him it seems to be the excitement of having another dog to run with and eventually he and the other dog get along fine. You might try putting Edgar on a long training lead and letting both dogs run around the yard. You could control him then if he got too rough with Aggie. After awhile they may get their differences worked out. I'm not a trainer or expert by any means but it seems to work for us. |
| Aggie will turn around and start snapping at Edgar when he bites her. She sounds like an alligator on speed. Then after she tells Edgar off the chase will ensue again with Edgar trying to catch her. He gets more upset because he can't and then BAM he will get her again. It used to be just nipping from Edgar. I don't know why he is escalating it. Unfortunately, I can't use a training lead because the pen they get to run in has big trees throughout it. |
I think the nipping is out of the herding instinct. Add in the exciterment of running quickly and getting excited. I would watch them very carefully and stop the playing/running the minute the nipping gets hard. You need to watch this. the basket muzzle will help but won't teach the behavior is unacceptable. I don't remember reading...is this dog a male? Neutered? Has there been any obedience training? Are the two dogs siblings? lots of questions.... There is never one answer for all questions! |
| This is a good post because I use a muzzle on Gar. When we go to the dogpark he will do the chasing and bite to chase-ee. Part of the herding. Bad part is that other dogs don't like being bit which can and has started a fight. My fix was a basket muzzle. He can run and chase as much as he wants but can't bite. He can pant and drink water through the basket, which he does very well. The only problem is then he gets muzzle face (kinda like hat hair)  |
^^^^^^^^^ I hate hat hair. |
Ashley wrote: I think the nipping is out of the herding instinct. Add in the exciterment of running quickly and getting excited. I would watch them very carefully and stop the playing/running the minute the nipping gets hard. You need to watch this. the basket muzzle will help but won't teach the behavior is unacceptable. I don't remember reading...is this dog a male? Neutered? Has there been any obedience training? Are the two dogs siblings? lots of questions.... There is never one answer for all questions!Sorry Ashley, we went away for the weekend so I didn't see your reply until now. Edgar is male, fixed, and has had training. Aggie is female, fixed, and has also had training. They are different breeds of dogs but both herding breeds. Simon's Mom wrote: This is a good post because I use a muzzle on Gar. When we go to the dogpark he will do the chasing and bite to chase-ee. Part of the herding. Bad part is that other dogs don't like being bit which can and has started a fight. My fix was a basket muzzle. He can run and chase as much as he wants but can't bite. He can pant and drink water through the basket, which he does very well. The only problem is then he gets muzzle face (kinda like hat hair) Muzzle face huh? That does sound funny. I was wondering whether anyone else had ever used a muzzle for playing so that is nice to hear. I still haven't bought one yet. I will try to keep breaking them up and see if it makes a difference. Maybe if I let them play together everyday so it seemed like less of a big deal it might chill Edgar out? |
What is the other breed? Obviously one is an OES...what is the other? and which is which?  The problem with using the muzzle to inhibit biting, well, you are inhibiting biting. Which means the dog with the muzzle is a HUGE disatvantage if the play biting ends up being a fight. The dog with the muzzle has no way of protecting itself. I would worry if this was used at a dog park with unknown dogs...HOWEVER, and this is a big However, if it is YOUR dog that is causing the potential problem, a muzzle may be in order...If its the two dogs NOT in a dog park situation and these two dogs live with each other and only get this way wehn runnign and playing, I would think it has to do more with excitement and the "manner" in which the breed plays You may ahe to monitor the excitement and calm it down so they learn to play "nicely" together.......Hope I didn't totall confuse you! |
| Edgar is the OES while Aggie is an English Shepherd. I haven't been out with them to run around in the pen yet as it has been too wet. We haven't been to a dog park since we have moved to Oregon so I don't think Edgar having a muzzle on will be a issue- though that is an important point you made. Hopefully I can make Edgar chill out some so he stops the hard bites. Whenever he does that, Aggie will turn around and start snapping at him, telling him to knock it off basically. Edgar doesn't seem to care though, because as soon as the chase is back on he is trying to get Aggie again. |
| We have a similar issue with one of the dogs in our rally class - Scooter the Australian Shepherd. After class the dogs get to play in the fully matted training center - the size of 2 rings. The dogs can play while we (humans) pickup the signs and shut down the place, as we are the last class of the evening. Scooter likes to herd just as much as Chewie, and they are the only 2 herding breeds. Scooter's mom is a horse trainer - a young college girl - and he is used to nipping the heels of the horses when he is out at the stable w/ her. He gets in trouble for that too! Scooter is 3, Chewie is 4 and they play great. Until it gets going as they are herding each other and trying to out-herd the other....it's quite interesting. But Chewie outweighs Scooter and can push him, and then Scooter starts nipping and growling and ripping into Chewie by grabbing him on the neck/scruff and trying to turn him. Chewie takes strong exception to this and comes down hard on Scooter. We have learned to stop all play as it escalates, and they have a ferw minutes of time out. The funny part is, we KNOW they are compelled to herd, and they get sucked back into it later on. There are all sporting breeds otherwise - 4 goldens, a viszla, choc lab and english setter, and one big yorkie. We have their owners educated not to throw balls for fetch, as Scooter and Chewie won't let them return, they herd them.... |
| I wish I could educate the other owners at obedience. They're all obsessed with throwing balls to exercise their dogs.  And the dogs are obsessed with fetching.Tiggy is called the fun police by the trainer, but when she gets really excited and starts herding and barking some of the other dogs get nervous and then their owners get angry. I just leave at the end of class now  as its too hard to stop Tiggy doing what comes naturally. If we stay and I try keeping her on lead I leave with my left arm much longer than my right. |
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