Male sheepies - stubborn or just stupid
I have had Wendel a year in June. He was a very dear pet to my breeder and was very spoiled. I don't think he had any formal training, but he minds. We were instructed to have our dogs heel on the left and to walk with us. In class, he was great! He stayed right with me. I'm not sure if it's because he's a momma's boy or if he felt a bit insecure in such a new environment. The second we walked out of the building, he started his usual pulling to the car. Today I took Asterisk and Wendel for a walk. I had been out of town at a friends funeral and just got home last night. I decided it was a good time to practice our heel. Wendel did not want to be on my left, he wanted to be on my right. So he kept cutting me off! He'd walk on my left and then stop right in my path and zig to the right. I nearly stumbled over him - I don't even KNOW how many times. So I decided I had to body block him as we walked. I'd walk and tap him with my left thigh to keep him on that side of me. He would keep tugging because I wasn't going fast enough for his taste (and I was walking pretty darned fast!). Asterisk, mean time, was doing great! She walked on the outside of Wendel and I so Wendel was between she and I. She didn't tug at all, she kept with us. My arm is sore from trying to keep Wendel with me. I'd tug at his leash and say "Wendel HEEL" and he'd walk slow for a second. I tried to praise him by saying "good boy" but everytime I did, he started to walk faster and tug. This is confusing, because I always used that for praise. Our release word is 'okay'. I know it was our first day of work on this outside of class. I know he's four, too. He is a smart dog, but I can't make up my mind as to if he's resisting because he's stubborn or if he's stupid. How long will it take to get him to GET it? Are males harder to train? Asterisk didn't seem nearly this bull headed. |
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| I have two males and both are GREAT in class. Outside of class its a whole different story. Try taking the dogs one on one and really working with them. They are not dumb, they know what they can get away with and do it. You are the one who has to set the rules and keep working with them to let them know you mean business. |
| No, he's not dumb, just confused. Working one on one with him, little speaking, lots of relaxation will do more than all the jabbering. Make sure you instructions are clear and precise. Also are you setting the collar correctly? If he's tugging then it's way too low. Yeah, some want their upright on their left, but just keep workings on that. Jack is the same way. We dance a bit down the road. |
| I think its too smart and some stubborn thrown in. Tiggy heels beautifully in class but elsewhere is another story. Things to see, places to go, cats to chase, pull, pull, pull  |
| My experience is the opposite re: gender - the males are less stubborn than the females. For training purposes - definitely work each separately. Otherwise they get the crazy group mentality and each feeds off the other. It will be quite frustrating. Mine all are expected not to pull - ever. Even when just strolling on a longer lead. I teach them end of the lead awareness - whatever the length, when they feel the end they aren't to pull and drag me. It makes life more pleasant for all of us! And they are smart - several of them beside Chewie are in training for weight pull, and they know the difference between walking and pulling times. If you are consistant and raise your expectations (in my mind I am confident they will behave), you are likely to get the improved behavior  |
Quote: I teach them end of the lead awareness - Dawn...HOW is this taught??? Heart is great in classes, of course, one of the best most behaved...but get her out in public, the first 10 minutes are horrible~~~ pulling, choking, gagging...very |
sheepieshake wrote: Quote: I teach them end of the lead awareness - Dawn...HOW is this taught??? Heart is great in classes, of course, one of the best most behaved...but get her out in public, the first 10 minutes are horrible~~~ pulling, choking, gagging...very I hope I can explain this, as it is just something I automatically do.... And 1st is what you mentioned - the good behavior in class, that dissolves as soon as you leave. That is the human's fault! It is a mindset in yourself that you have to fix 1st. My mental expectation is the dog not pulling the lead - ever. It takes a whole reworking on the human's part 1st. We don't move until the dog is under control. Mostly it is done by body language, the verbal is mostly praise when your dog "gets it" and is not pulling. The lead is your guage - if there is slack, dog gets praise and all wonderfulness. The second it is tight, the mood changes, and all fun stops. As soon as it is loose, fun resumes. Total black and white - no grey. Like an on/off switch. I use several actual methods - depends on the dog and the situation. 1st is the happy, exuberant dog - acting crazy just because, with little or no external distractions. Say you want to go for a walk - not training time, just want reasonable control and no dragging. (This would be a few of mine - Maggie, Biscuit come to mind!) I talk calmly, stroke them calmly, wait until they (single dog, not both together) are settled a bit. Another big thing is DON'T use the tight lead, strangle hold. LOOSE Lead is so important. Give a little snap on the lead if they pull you, just for a moment of tightness, then immediately loose again. At the moment they are at the end pulling, I usually use a negative sounding acck! or similar grunt type sound. It isn't a word, just conveys disapproval of the behavior. Also, all forward motion stops, and eventually they all do relax (even just a moment - and you need to catch that!), and then you start walking again. Then continue on. It may be very rapid correction/positives at the beginning, a type of yoyo feeling. The important thing is to very clear with the difference in behaviors and how you show your dog what you want. The second the pulling stops I try and radiate happiness and good feelings.  and likewise, the second it's tight lead (pulling) I am not happy and not liking the behavior. The degree of your expression needs to match what the dog needs to understand. Then work up to using this same expectation with distractions - other people, dogs, birds, whatever! If you go to class and expect good behavior, but allow the dog to drag you in and out of the class, you are effectively telling your dog that the behavior in class is only needed in class..... it's your fault, because you reinforce that behavior every single time you go.... and soon your dog thinks they are doing what you want! And then you have the perfect model dog in class who frustrates you why aren't they learning to behave the rest of the time?? Hope this helps! |
| It helps ALOT!!!!!!! Thanks...will begin this immediately~~~and it make perfect sense ! |
got sheep wrote: We don't move until the dog is under control. Excellent!! Can you come and train my DH for me.   He just lets them pull him to the car, takes them to the park and opens the door. |
Mim wrote: got sheep wrote: We don't move until the dog is under control. Excellent!! Can you come and train my DH for me. He just lets them pull him to the car, takes them to the park and opens the door. You have my sympathies!!!  |
| Gee thanks!! |
| Here is my hint on walking. I have a female and male and they walk beside or behind me. How I do it as soon as the try walking past me, usually the start of the walk they test me. I walk in front of them and cut them off I might look like a fool but it works! I also swing my leg in front of him and push him back gently doesn't take much. I can walk both dogs and they walk behind me and that is all I do. Also I use a harness but it hooks on the front of the chest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QEM9zl4ngs I love it! |
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