Perspectives on whether to use wrap/tight command or not?
We were given two options 1.) call "come" which we had already been doing for changing direction whilst on the move or 2.) teach a command like "wrap" or "tight". Some of the obedience handlers didnt want to use come for either as they have already trained "come" to mean come to front and sit. I am verbal/motion challenged, ie I seem to only be able to do one thing at a time, run or talk.  So calling come to indicate a change in direction seems to be more natural for me. I can see there may be benefits to having a different word too. When I asked the instructor said its personal preference and some handlers like to keep the number of commands to a minimum. This is probably a good option for me.  What are your perspectives is it useful enough to have a different command for me to perservere in the face of my disability or should I stick to come? |
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| I would do whatever seems to be the best for both you and Tiggy. If you know you have trouble spitting out the verbal command while making the direction change/body language work, do what WILL work. Tiggy will most likely pick up on it.  ...eventually!Personally I use a bit of both the verbal and my body language. And I have two different verbals. If he needs a more gentle reminder, I use "here". If he needs more - like a big sweet tunnel is sucking him in off course  .... I use a stronger "CHEWIE" to get him with me and making the less popular choice that enables us to stay on course. Just had that issue Tuesday in class - but it was a straight in line jump that got him. It was in a course setup, and 2/3 through there was a series of three jumps, but the correct choice 3rd jump was the one not in a line - it was offset and closer to me. Too make it harder, we have really been working at home on sending out through a series of jumps - to get some distance on him away from me. Making it easy, I use several jumps in a row and praise him....so you can see the problem...  It took breaking the series down in pieces to get him to pull away and take the correct 3rd jump. I tried a "here" - didn't work. Then a "HERE" - didn't work. Used "Chewie" - and he thought about it, but took the stright in a row 3rd jump. Finally I used a firmer "CHEWIE" and stopped dead. When he turned in to me, then I sent him over the "correct" 3rd jump and we had a big party!!! He was so happy he got it right!...and me too!  |
| Ack! I was at a CPE trial this weekend and wondered what this whole yelling "tight" fad is. Being in the position of spectator I can tell you not a single damn dog knew what it meant and all responded simply to handler body language, which is what dogs are wont to do.  If you want tight turns/wraps, teach a pre-cue and work on your acceleration/deceleration as a cue. If they don't know what a pre-cue is, I'll see if I can find some articles to e-mail you. I run entire jumpers courses with as little verbiage as possible. Herding breed, baby. Totally cued into reading motion, you know Now, mind you, neither of the current two are speed demons and prefer to run close, really. Like Chewie, I have to teach them distance - they're like velcro. And Sybil especially is so totally in tune with my body language that I can't blink at the wrong moment and not have her respond. It's a little freaky. You still use the body language at a distance. Yeah, if she's 30-50 feet ahead of you I suppose you're, hm, in trouble. But then you handle more laterallly so she can still see you in her peripheral vision. I know, I know. Very confusing. Make nice instructors happy and work on the "tight" command for the wrap and maybe she'll amaze all of us and you'll be posting videos to that effect  In the mean time, keep working the body language because that's what she's really reading Pre-cue's work awesome for me with front crosses when I can get them in on time. And I do mean saves me yards and yards, and screaming names, and wear and tear on dogs' bodies too. Kristine |
| Both Randy and I use "here". I know, I know, "why do I hear so many "here's". We started training that way, the dogs understand it and it gets the job done. When I say "here" to Simon, he looks to see what I want and then does it. When Randy says "here" to Gar...well it depends on what he's smelling at the time.  is not always on for that boy. |
| Thanks all! An article or two on pre cues would be great please Kristine. As 1) I dont know what they are and 2) you can never have too much info. It begins to look to me already like Tiggy is going to prefer to run close but will get frustrated with me for running too slow. One of the "in tune with body language" (or so I'm told) instructors has already told me I'll have to do lots of distance work with Tiggy as she's so fast. There are a number of "kind of shocked" agility people at class as they didnt expect an old english to a) be so fast, b) have so much drive and c) take to agility like an old hand. Tiggy likes to chase a squeaky and then kill it while running back to me so I think it'll be lots of sending out and coming back in. It'll be fun to see how things progress. I think its going to be me who slows the process down. Tig seems to have the idea already  And only gets confused if she either hasnt tried something before or when I muck her up by giving mixed signals. |
Mim wrote: It begins to look to me already like Tiggy is going to prefer to run close but will get frustrated with me for running too slow. One of the "in tune with body language" (or so I'm told) instructors has already told me I'll have to do lots of distance work with Tiggy as she's so fast. There are a number of "kind of shocked" agility people at class as they didnt expect an old english to a) be so fast, b) have so much drive and c) take to agility like an old hand. Chewie is the 1st OES where I train, so I don't have a lot of people prejudging him (he was the 1st in conformation class, 1st in obedience class where I do drop ins...you get the picture!). However, I'm still hearing "wow, he really likes this!" from people in my agility class. And comments along the lines of the amount of drive and speed - just like you guys are getting. I guess they only have seen OES at the conformation shows being groomed for hours and never moving. Then the short time in the ring when they look like posed stuffie toys! They are pleasantly surprised by the change (as we did conformation class there 1st) and said they had NO IDEA he could move like that! |
Mim wrote: An article or two on pre cues would be great please Kristine. As 1) I dont know what they are and 2) you can never have too much info. Will do. At a herding trial this weekend. Three OES entered. Keep hearing: is it a specialty?! Tomorrow's judge is reportedly already excited to be judging OES. Hope he still feels that way after Bottomline: any time anyone comes across an OES actually doing anything other than snoozing on a sofa, they're shocked. When I first started out with Belle I think some judges in some venues were amazed an OES could recognize its own name Get used to it. We've got our work cut out for us. Surely we must be well on our way to total world OES performance domination by now, though? KB |
Mad Dog wrote: Bottomline: any time anyone comes across an OES actually doing anything other than snoozing on a sofa, they're shocked. When I first started out with Belle I think some judges in some venues were amazed an OES could recognize its own name Get used to it. We've got our work cut out for us. Surely we must be well on our way to total world OES performance domination by now, though? KB Well anyone who thinks that OES lie snoozing on the couch havent met Tiggy and Babs, nor quite a few others who shall remain nameless. |
Mim wrote: Well anyone who thinks that OES lie snoozing on the couch havent met Tiggy and Babs, nor quite a few others who shall remain nameless.Doesn't mean much when they're so rarely seen anywhere that requires actual training. On the plus side for the few who actually do something with their dogs, the expectation is so low we tend to look brilliant Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: Mim wrote: Well anyone who thinks that OES lie snoozing on the couch havent met Tiggy and Babs, nor quite a few others who shall remain nameless.Doesn't mean much when they're so rarely seen anywhere that requires actual training. On the plus side for the few who actually do something with their dogs, the expectation is so low we tend to look brilliant Kristine Try the reaction with a basset hound - you look EXTREMELY BRILLIANT! |
got sheep wrote: Try the reaction with a basset hound - you look EXTREMELY BRILLIANT! This is very true and why I so desperately wanted you to have a Mad puppy Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: got sheep wrote: Try the reaction with a basset hound - you look EXTREMELY BRILLIANT! This is very true and why I so desperately wanted you to have a Mad puppy Kristine LOL It was a jump down for me to bassets - my previous competition dogs (er... bitches) were Jenny, my GSD; then Macy, my chocolate lab. Simon was more of a project. Thankfully he loves me and was a willing victim! Chewie was really a piece of cake after that! Guess it's all a matter of perspective.....although I must admit, he is a very moldable boy! Todd still laughs and just shakes his head...calls him my "shadow". |
Mad Dog wrote: Mim wrote: Well anyone who thinks that OES lie snoozing on the couch havent met Tiggy and Babs, nor quite a few others who shall remain nameless.Doesn't mean much when they're so rarely seen anywhere that requires actual training. On the plus side for the few who actually do something with their dogs, the expectation is so low we tend to look brilliant Kristine True!!! Dawn are you doing agility with a basset?? |
Mim wrote: Mad Dog wrote: Mim wrote: Well anyone who thinks that OES lie snoozing on the couch havent met Tiggy and Babs, nor quite a few others who shall remain nameless.Doesn't mean much when they're so rarely seen anywhere that requires actual training. On the plus side for the few who actually do something with their dogs, the expectation is so low we tend to look brilliant Kristine True!!! Dawn are you doing agility with a basset?? No - but if he wouldn't have already been 6 yrs old when I got him, I would have. Instead we did rally, and he easily got all 3 titles - RN, RA and RE. You need 3 legs for each and he did them in 3 shows each - he never NQ'd. He also was in the placings at least once at each level, beating out the more traditional breeds like goldens, aussies, border collies, shelties, etc. Most people were amazed seeing a basset working off lead and wagging his tail, doing the course, complete with jumps! The judges really loved seeing him work - he rocked! Now he's retired at age 11, but still doing the occasional therapy dog visits. |
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