Hello! Thinking of bringing a sheep(dog) into our home...
 I have been lurking the boards for a few days and doing a lot of research about owning a dog. I am moving to the Chicago area in August, and I think it is a good time to start reading up on training, health, breeds, etc.I must confess that I originally came here looking into information about a Sheepdog / Poodle mix, because I had heard them recommended for their temperment and fur type (I am sort of allergic to dogs, but in denial at this point). Now, I know how taboo it is to talk about that here, and I understand that it's almost impossible to find one of these animals that was bred for health, temperment, and stability instead of profit from the backyard breeders who often sell them. I suppose that is why it was so hard to find good information about these hybrids! My wife and I just bought a condo, so we expect to take regular walks to keep our dog happy, healthy, and out of trouble. One nice thing about the Oak Park area is how many parks are nearby, including a dog park. We have friends a few blocks away who also have a dog. After exploring many breeds, we are leaning towards getting an Old English Sheepdog. I have known a number of these wonderful dogs and I think it would be a wonderful fit for the two of us. I am very concerned about health and temperment issues that come from backyard breeding / puppy mills. If I were in a situation where I had unlimited free time and lots of space, I would save up and find a reliable breeder recommended by the Old English Sheepdog Club of America. But for us, getting a puppy would be unrealistic. They need constant attention. We would love to rescue a dog, but aren't you often just getting a backyard bred dog in a different way? I have read many testimonials on this forum about endless vet and medical bills and emotional issues that come with bad breeding -- especially with OESs. This will be my first dog and I do not want it to suffer. Is there any way to get an adult dog of the quality that a breeder would produce without buying a puppy? Not that they aren't cute, but I have to be realistic and I feel that a puppy would deserve more than I might be able to give. Any dog can have health problems, but you all have convinced me that an OES with bad hips or temperment will be just as unhappy as we are. I just wish there were an "in between" option. This is going to be our only pet and I want it to have the best chance of a vibrant life. |
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| Maybe unrelated to rescuing a sheepdog, I will also add that although we are both busy law students, we are very interested in feeding homemade dog food. Buying in bulk and freezing makes much more sense to me -- from a financial and health standpoint -- than expensive kibble. Any thoughts (besides what we will learn from our veteranarian)? Any OES lovers feed this regularly? I know that many prefer a diet mostly including raw meat, and I think that makes sense, but we would prefer to stick with a cooked diet. For some of the same reasons of mass production that makes kibble seem unattractive, I think we would all feel better if possible contaminants were cooked out for the sake of both our dogs and us. Since we just bought a house, I am kind of planning out my budget for next fall and I'm having a hard time estimating what a sheepdog eats -- I read 12-14 oz for every 10-15 lbs. Does that make sense? |
Quote: Is there any way to get an adult dog of the quality that a breeder would produce without buying a puppy? You might check with OESCA breeders to see if they have any adult dogs needing a good home or a dog that may need to be rehomed due to other circumstances. Good luck with your search! I hope you'll share a picture when you find your new companion |
| Welcome! You might contacting breeders off of the referral list to ask for their advise on adopting an older dog. Occasionally, breeders find themselves with older, returned dogs since many good breeders have puppy buyers sign a contract agreeing to return the dog if they cannot keep it at some point. Rescues also often have adult dogs that, while possibly from an unknown source, are in perfect health...since they are at an age where most genetic problems would have shown up, if there were any. We have adopted 2 dogs from rescue who turned out to be finished champions, and from very reputable breeders. Our third dog was an "older" (6 month old) pup from a good breeder who just wanted to place him in a good pet home. Again, welcome to the forum...there's tons of great info here on the best dog breed there is  Good luck on your search! |
| We rescued Zeke and so far he has proven to be a great dog. I know it's a crap-shoot. I wish I had better advice. I'm sure some of our experts will add their expertise. Good luck & welcome to the board. Hope to see a sheepie pic soon. |
Rocka wrote: We would love to rescue a dog, but aren't you often just getting a backyard bred dog in a different way? I have read many testimonials on this forum about endless vet and medical bills and emotional issues that come with bad breeding -- especially with OESs. This will be my first dog and I do not want it to suffer. Is there any way to get an adult dog of the quality that a breeder would produce without buying a puppy? Rescue dogs come from all different backgrounds. I've had two fabulous rescue sheepdogs. Chumley was a senior whose person (also a senior) died. She was the most amazingly sweet, loving, happy girl. And Maggie is the healthiest, fittest, sweetest dog I can imagine. So while there are many people who have taken on medical or temperament issues with rescues, it is often a knowing choice. If you get the dog as an adult, you know what you are getting. I also got a puppy from a breeder and at 1 year old, he is fabulous too but training a pup is alot more work than adopting a nice adult dog. |
| I just want to throw this out there too: THANK YOU for caring enough to ask questions now. Every once in a while it's great to hear from someone like you! I am SO glad you've been reading what we have to share. It seems like you understand and regardless of whether you agree or not at least you didn't come here calling us all nasty names because of the points we try to drive home. BRAVO! (Rescues will likely be able to match you up with a dog that fits you better than a BYB, mill, or pet store. The dog for you IS out there. Going to rescue is not supporting mills or BYBs. It helps make room so they can help other displace or unwanted dogs.) Shellie |
| One of the nice things about getting a rescue dog is that often times that dog has been living with a foster family. You can speak with the family and learn any habits or traits of your would-be adopted companion, sometimes eliminating some of the"unknowable" aspect that comes with adopting an older dog and ease your concerns about adopting an adult BYB dog. They can let you know of any behaviors that might not be desirable, and they'll definitely be able to tell you things about the dog's temperment. Often times, a foster family will even be in the process of training a dog that they are keeping, to help make it more adoptable by eliminating any "bad habits", so to speak. |
| I did want to say, that not all dogs in rescue are BYB dogs or dogs of ill repute. The economy is terrible now. I met a fellow last October who was in near tears because he had lost his job, was losing his house and had to find a new home for his OES. She was 4 then and he'd had her since she was a puppy. He said he had to think of Plan B for himself and his dog. She was adopted by a co-worker of mine who loves her. A lot of people are losing their homes now and moving into apartments with strict pet policies. Or as was already said, people pass away, either from accident or sickness and dogs are displaced. |
| Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I'm glad you could confirm my hope that we could find an Old English Sheepdog suitable for our condo life. It makes a lot of sense that a rescue dog would be old enough that any genetic defects would have already reared their heads. We would never take on an animal without being prepared to meet its needs. We just want to know what we're getting into (as best we can... considering it's an animal and they tend to have their own ideas!) It may be too early to start looking now, but I guess if you hear of any Old English Sheepdogs in the Nebraska - Iowa - Illinois area (moving to Omaha to Chicago) at the beginning of August, you know who to call!  Besides scaring the neighbors when we walk the beast into the apartment building, is there anything about the Old English Sheepdog that I should be wary of? What are the right questions to ask? It seems to be a breed about which there are a lot of misconceptions. I have read that OES will bark occasionally, but less than many other breeds. I know they need daily exercise and lots of attention, but have heard that they would do okay on their own while we are in class. Does this seem to line up with your experiences? |
| You have a lot of good questions! I'm located on the Illinois/Iowa border in a place called the Quad Cities, it's nice to have another person moving into Illinois. There are a few midwest rescues that you can contact when the time is right. I volunteer for the Midwest OES rescue and they have been saying that sheepdog season is among us, which is unfortunate. As far as barking, it really depends on the dog and the activity. My dogs bark widely at the postman or anyone walking past the house or car. Also, if my dogs get over excited, like when I first get home, my dogs are very barky, but settle down. As far as special considerations, just be prepared for the amount of grooming and exercise the breed requires. I do my own home grooming as does a few of us here. I find it to be therapeutic. Not all people have the time or the desire to do their own grooming, so you can look into groomers in your area. |
Quote: Maybe unrelated to rescuing a sheepdog, I will also add that although we are both busy law students, we are very interested in feeding homemade dog food. Buying in bulk and freezing makes much more sense to me -- from a financial and health standpoint -- than expensive kibble. Any thoughts (besides what we will learn from our veteranarian)? Any OES lovers feed this regularly? I think you will find that most vets are not nutritionists, and frankly I have had better advice on food in the health and nutrition category of this forum. I looked into making my own food, too, but was deterred by the nutrition aspect - did not find enough info readily available that made me feel confident that I was doing the best for the dog. Not to mention the expense and storage issues of fresh food - sheepies do eat a lot! You are obviously giving this a lot of thought and doing a lot of research, but you will never find the perfect dog. Each one has its quirks and foibles, so as someone said it's a crapshoot every time. Two of mine are shelter dogs (not sheepies) and one came from a BYB. I would do it all again. |
| I don't want to give the wrong impression -- we will love the dog no matter what. A few quirks is one thing, but I am just thinking of the dog's extra needs. For example, if it's very aggressive and not potty trained, we'd be in a much more difficult situation trying to train it than if we were able to stay home all day and had a huge yard where it could play alone. Maybe it's a good idea to buy a small second freezer if I'm thinking of making dog food, eh? I think I must have read every page on the internet about dog nutrition, but none is specific to Old English Sheepdog -- it's generally just a percentage of what a typical adult dog needs in terms of protein, fiber, vegetables, calcium, healthy oils, and vitamins. I hope we can find a good vet or nutritionist to help steer us to the proper proportions. |
| I just noticed there is a discussion going on right now in the Health and Nutrition section on feeding raw. I'm sure you'll find lots of good info there! Good luck in your search and you move, too. I adopted my first OES when we lived in Omaha and I've lived in Chicago, too. Quite a difference, except Omaha's winters are worse! |
Regarding the barking....Violet is more of a barker then my Aussies. She barks for each meal and barks when we go to the van...I think she is just really excited and that is the way she gets the excitement out of her system. Yes, she is known to bark with her kibble in her mouth, not the best of manners I know.  Violet's barking for other things really depends on what tha Aussies are doing...if Asia is barking at something Violet will sometimes join in and not really know what is being barked about. The funny thing is when I adopted Violet at 9mts through a rescue she didn't bark then...she never barked for the first two years I owned her. I thought that maybe sheepies didn't bark ...I've since been corrected thanks to my sweet Vi. Good luck with whatever choice you make. |
Rocka wrote: I don't want to give the wrong impression -- we will love the dog no matter what. A few quirks is one thing, but I am just thinking of the dog's extra needs. For example, if it's very aggressive and not potty trained, we'd be in a much more difficult situation trying to train it than if we were able to stay home all day and had a huge yard where it could play alone. Maybe it's a good idea to buy a small second freezer if I'm thinking of making dog food, eh? I think I must have read every page on the internet about dog nutrition, but none is specific to Old English Sheepdog -- it's generally just a percentage of what a typical adult dog needs in terms of protein, fiber, vegetables, calcium, healthy oils, and vitamins. I hope we can find a good vet or nutritionist to help steer us to the proper proportions. Just something to think about, too: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sometimes, even though one feeding method is better on paper, it may not work for the dog. If the dog that you get is doing well on a certain kibble, it may be easier on the dog and you to continue that. You never know what works until you get the dog and you give it a go. Some breeders really want you to continue the food they feed, too, even if you end up getting an older dog so make sure you talk to them about it. Good luck! |
ButtersStotch wrote: Just something to think about, too: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sometimes, even though one feeding method is better on paper, it may not work for the dog. I agree. Only change foods if the dog isn't doing well on it or if there's a medical condition that requires a change. |
| My husband and I have had OES since 1989. We purchased our Alex from a petstore....we were young and in love with this black and white fuzzy baby. Alex was a big boy that developed hip displysia around age 5. He lived a happy life until he was 12 1/2. He was a great furkid. During his time with us, we rescued 3 other OES over the years. Chelsea was our first rescue, she was 4 months old and deaf. She was a wonderful pet and really didn't have any issues until she had a stroke at the age of 11. She was smart and learned sign language very quickly. Everyone loved her. Next came Chynna...our first foster failure. She was 5 years old and a family turn-in. She had allergies and had a distrust of men as a result of her previous home. She was good with children and women. She eventually gained trust in Carlos, but never let her guard down completely with him. Then came Ralph at 18 months. Family needed to re-home him as they had moved and were not allowed to keep him in the rented house. He was outside in a small pen with several other small dogs and was so filthy he looked brown instead of gray and white. He is now 9 years old and has not had any health issues to speak of. He could stand to loose a few pounds, but overall he's in great shape. A couple of years ago we adopted another deaf baby of 18 months, Mini Moose. He's currently 3 and has shown no signs of health issues. He's a bit mischievous and loves to chase the cats, but he's so cute it's hard to stay mad at him! Last month we picked up Noel, our second foster failure. She was an owner turn-in to a kill shelter. She is the Sheepadoodle that you're looking for. She is 6 months old and cute as a button. With all of our Sheepies, we've had papers on Alex, Chelsea, Chynna and Ralph. Of the six, five have been rescues and regardless of papers or breeders, we've loved each and everyone of them. They have all brought something to our lives. We are back in the puppy stage as we were reminded this morning as we woke up to a pair of chewed up Rainbows! Good luck with your search and do consider a rescue dog. Talk to your local OES rescue. They are always interested in pairing the right furkid with the right furever home. It may take some time, but it will be well worth the wait. As many have said, some OES have been turned over to rescue due to circumstances beyond the owner's control. |
 go rescue  Bella was my latest rescue and I have to agree with the previous posts. Since she was already 2 (or that is what we think she is) she had already gone through the puppy phase and it was easier to see what her basic temperment was going to be over all. The rescue group does a great job evaluating the puppers and really make a great effort to match the dog and owners. As for barking Bella never did it when we got her in October. Then she heard Dexter (my other rescue) bark and got the idea from him  . She only barks at strangers or if someone pulls into the driveway. I would rather she do that any way. She does kinda of talk to people with a sort of Wookie sound so I don't really count that as barking. She is just saying hello, why don't you just come on over here and pet me a little or scratch my ear. She does have an affinity for girls but warms up to men after sometime. The rescue group will be able to give you an idea of any issues with the pupper and good luck finding your furkid. |
| When I'm ready, I'll go the rescue route. Something about a discarded dog just breaks my heart. I want to give them all a home. Plus I don't want to deal with the baby teeth, chewing, and housebreaking, even though there's nothing cuter than a puppy. AND we had great luck with Zeke. |
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