Problems at Agility
Our trainer wants us to learn a new trick for each class. I have been trying to teach Asterisk to do the crawl, where she scoots across the floor on her belly. Asterisk is just really having a hard time understanding what I want from her. In obedience, she was taught to stay down when she's in the down position and not move. So, it's really challenging to get her to move forward. Last night, was a bit of a disaster. My trainer was not having patience with my dog. She didn't like that Asterisk wouldn't do an immediate down. She said that Asterisk wasn't respecting me as a pack leader and that I had to make her do a down. She had me place a long leather lead on her and ask Asterisk to sit. Once she was sitting she had me stomp my foot down on the leather lead very close to Asterisk's neck to get it to the ground and say down as I did so. Asterisk as you can imagine, had no idea what was going on. She started bucking and trying to get away. The trainer took the leash from me and forced Asterisk down again. Being a large dog and the trainer being small, you can imagine, Asterisk bucked backwards and yelped. Her eyes were wide and she wanted to get away. My trainers patience was getting worse and she yanked at the lead to get Asterisk to get to her. Asterisk slipped her lead and ran to me. She pressed her body tightly to mine because she was scared and confused. The trainer made me keep forcing my dogs head down while saying down till, Asterisk, tired, exhausted and really stressed was too tired to fight. I was really upset by this. I know it's my fault that I didn't instill a quicker down with my dog, but it was so apparent my dog was terrified and confused. My obedience trainer was so positive with my dog, this is such a shock. I do not want to ever do that method again. I don't think Asterisk was defying me and not respecting me as an owner... I think she was terrified and didn't understand why she was being forced down... and I KNOW that it had to hurt her neck. Can anyone give me a more positive approach to getting Asterisk to down? |
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| we used that method to train the down. Neither of my dogs objected to it though. I think if you get upset and nervous Astik reads that and it feeds back to him. You have an entire week before your next class. practice three or four times a day for short periods using a method that works (neither one that only feels good or one that scares your dog) and you should have a good reliable down by next class and it won't be an issue. But - the number one rule in dog training. If you actually object to something someone tries with your dog - don't let them do it. |
After I stop wanting to drive down to IL and have a few lessons of my own with your "instuctor" we can discuss the proper way to teach a fast and clean down!   Completely unacceptable to manhandle a student's dog in that manner!!!!!!!! Please PM me instructor's name/place you train. No, I won't contact her or where ever. But hopefully I can find you a better place to train - or perhaps there's a different class there with a better instructor? Unbelievable!  I'm so sorry for both of you that this happened.  Back to the down when I've calmed down if someone doesn't beat me to it, which is fine. By the way, have you taught her the sphinx down? Where they go down on their elbows first and bottom folds down? If not, we'll talk about that approach. Down can be a really but really fun game. Does she like toys? Balls maybe? Kristine |
kerry wrote: But - the number one rule in dog training. If you actually object to something someone tries with your dog - don't let them do it. Absolutely! Her neck could have been injured! Try putting her in a sit & using food to lure her into a down by sliding the food down & out in front of her. Also you can put her in a stand, take a piece of food & bring it down & under her chest between her front legs. Her head will follow it down & pretty soon her butt will be on the ground too. Use the word "down" in each instance. Pretty soon a finger pointing to the area should do it. Down is a pretty submissive position for some dogs. I have 3 that learned a down quickly. I had another, my dominant girl who was a whiz at obedience & learned everything quickly & perfectly , who took a solid year to admit a down wasn't the end of the world! I am not kidding you. Talk about trying my patience! |
Mad Dog wrote: After I stop wanting to drive down to IL and have a few lessons of my own with your "instuctor" we can discuss the proper way to teach a fast and clean down! Completely unacceptable to manhandle a student's dog in that manner!!!!!!!! Please PM me instructor's name/place you train. No, I won't contact her or where ever. But hopefully I can find you a better place to train - or perhaps there's a different class there with a better instructor? Unbelievable! I'm so sorry for both of you that this happened. Back to the down when I've calmed down if someone doesn't beat me to it, which is fine. By the way, have you taught her the sphinx down? Where they go down on their elbows first and bottom folds down? If not, we'll talk about that approach. Down can be a really but really fun game. Does she like toys? Balls maybe? Kristine Sphinx down? Now that is something I'd like to teach. When Asterisk downs, she just gets comfortable. Front leg is bent and her back legs are to her side. She just relaxes, because as I said before, she was taught to not get up from a down. Sadly, she is not terribly interested in balls. She does like her plushes, but will lose interested. The only true motivating item I have found with her is using treats. |
| That really bites!!! (polite wording version) There are so many ways to teach a down - one to match every dog and their personality. An instructor that only has one way to teach something (and a damaging way if the dog struggles) is not very experienced, and not up to date in current modes of training. Having your dog manhandled by the instructor is BAD!!! I would be finding a new instructor. If not possible - talk with her and firmly inform her she will NOT EVER touch your dog again...... |
| Thank you all for the support, I really appreciate it. I just felt horrible to see my dog so scared and stressed. I think she may have been hurt at one point because she let out a large yelp when the trainer yanked at her. When she was finally released and could get up she was heavily panting, drank a lot of water, and was glued to me. She is a smart girl, and I think there has to be a way to make this a fun experience for her. I really like the idea you gave, Marilyn, and I'll try that tonight. And I'm open to any other options that I can try. |
| A very long time ago, during therapy training class with my first dog, that is how they trained a quick down. I wasn't really comfortable with it, but after only 3 times of 'jamming' the lead to the ground, Millie learned...and never forgot !!! She had the most beautiful, quick downs ever. Knowing what I know now, I would not choose to do that to train a quick down, as there are many other nicer ways to do it. Anyway, Heart would melt into a pile of GOO if I tried that on her.....  And finally, I think we have all had that one trainer who will not listen to you as an owner. I KNOW my dogs. I know what they can take and what they can't. I brought Pearl to a trainer who immediately placed a prong collar on her. I asked why? I didn't feel Pearl would need one to obey me and she replied """ALL BIG DOGS NEED PRONGS TO MAKE THEM LISTEN""" I knew right away that this trainer was not for me. I politely, removed the prong, placed in a the table and walked to my car. I put a stop payment on my check the next day and never heard from her again. Follow your instincts when it comes to your kids and your dogs!!!!!!  |
* Capt. Obvious Danger wrote: She is a smart girl, and I think there has to be a way to make this a fun experience for her. I really like the idea you gave, Marilyn, and I'll try that tonight. And I'm open to any other options that I can try. What Marilyn described in teaching the down from a stand is what results (normally) in what I call the sphinx of fold back down. You also need a down from a sit in some instances, but in agility more often than not the foldback down is much faster and the dogs, even the primarily treat driven ones  can really get into it.I'm sure Dawn can do a photo series of teaching the fold back. I wish I could figure out how to upload video to my computer in which case I could show you the fun and usefulness of a teaching the down as a game. I really have to learn how to do that. In my spare time. Haha. Kristine |
| I have to say your post really astounded me. I can not believe a trainer would to that to you or your dog. Although Bella and I do a little training on our own I train extensively with my horse. If my trianer ever did that I would have a hard time going back. When we train a 1200 lb animal and want a quick response we ask nicely once. If we don't get the correct response or promptness we stop....ask again with slightly more force. When the response is then of course quicker we stop..and ask again gently. our goal is to get the correct action from the LEAST or SMALLEST request. Not that this will work but often when I want a quick walk to trot we keep going over and over this. Can you do a sit to a down and down to a sit. Make him quick to your verbal and hand signals. Having an animal afraid of your trainer or you (If she forces you to do this to your pupper) is terrible. Remember no matter what you are paying this person to train and this is supposed to be a FUN activity for you and your dog. A scared dog is not having fun!! A less aggressive method make take longer for him to understand what you are asking but it would be better overall for everyone mentally. |
| Wow - that sounds just awful!! We recently had to re-train Inca to do down more reliably - we orginally taught her down (at 9 weeks old) from a sit position, holding a treat between her front feet, and she did it this way for about 2 years. Problem being she never quite got it, and I would have to put my hand on the floor in front of her each time for her to do it. The way I re-trained her was to first of all use a different word (changed from down to lie - think the fact I was constantly using the word down for other things wasn't helping much either) and second of all with the help of a target stick and lots of cheese . She quickly figured out how to follow the target stick, and very quickly figured out down from there - basically I just pointed with the stick where I would normally put my hand and then attached the word. We gradually built up distance and within a few days she would down pretty much instantly to either a hand signal or the word (only used the stick in the very initial stages) and within a few weeks she would down at a long distance (10-20 paces away).Of course Inca thought this was the best 'trick' she had ever learned and would throw herself on the ground as quickly as possible and wag her tail frantically waiting for me to treat her  I guess she realised the least effort = big reward ratio pretty fast!! Anyway, I'm sure you'll figure out something that works for you that you're both happy with - I really don't think there's a 'one size fits all' approach to this sheepie training business and its awful your trainer was trying to impose a method that clearly was not working (and distressing your dog to boot! ) |
| What also worsened the situation was that she wouldn't let us leave until Asterisk did a down three times. We were supposed to leave at eight thirty, so by the time Asterisk finally relented due to exhaustion it was a full twenty minutes later. I was sweaty, she was panting, it was terrible. The other dog owner was visibly shocked herself. She kept saying "well can't she just get an elbow down?" or "do you think she's had enough already." When Asterisk yelped, the woman said quickly "is she okay?" And the trainer was phased by none of this and just kept saying "she's not respecting you" |
| don't dwell on it. The yelp could have been surprise or a numbrer of other things. The more you get emotionally invested in resenting what happened, the less likely you will ever be able to get past it. And it will affect your training. Move on, dogs live in the moment - its a good lesson. Take the advice of Marilyn and others and try working on a down with a new approach. Hopnestly when done correctly the leash down does work with some dogs, so its not the approach in itself that is the issue (good to know if you ever have to train another dog) What you have to dog is work on teaching the down so that your dog gets it. I never worry about who respects whom. I know the dogs call all the shots and as long as they pretend to listen to me most of the time I am okay with it |
* Capt. Obvious Danger wrote: What also worsened the situation was that she wouldn't let us leave until Asterisk did a down three times. We were supposed to leave at eight thirty, so by the time Asterisk finally relented due to exhaustion it was a full twenty minutes later. I was sweaty, she was panting, it was terrible. The other dog owner was visibly shocked herself. She kept saying "well can't she just get an elbow down?" or "do you think she's had enough already." When Asterisk yelped, the woman said quickly "is she okay?" And the trainer was phased by none of this and just kept saying "she's not respecting you" Sorry but I'd be out of there. That dog is NEVER going to respect anyone that hurts it. I watched something like this happen about 14 years ago with my 2nd OES (1st show dog). I took her as a puppy to a local obedience class that had been around for a long time. Finding out the trainer was a retired army colonel should have been the 1st clue. But never having done any organized training with a dog before I was clueless. That day I watched him grab the lead of a harrier & swing it back & forth above the ground, on a choke chain, suspended, because it was forging a bit too much for the handler (a young person about the 11-12 years of age) & when the dog finally stopped struggling he let it down & said "Now he'll respect us!" No joke! The dog cringed & shied away every time the trainer took a step toward it! Thank heavens Melody was pretty well behaved at 16 weeks & I didn't have to worry about that happening with her. But his entire course was "jerk, yank & yell NO" for the dog to learn. I finished out the 8 weeks & when they asked if I wanted to go on to the next level I nicely told them I was looking for a conformation class (which they didn't offer). I found another training center that offered obedience & conformation & used the praise & reward method & I can't tell you how much faster my dog learned with this method. Even tho' she stumped even them with how to get her to do the down! |
kerry wrote: don't dwell on it. The yelp could have been surprise or a numbrer of other things. The more you get emotionally invested in resenting what happened, the less likely you will ever be able to get past it. And it will affect your training. Move on, dogs live in the moment - its a good lesson. Take the advice of Marilyn and others and try working on a down with a new approach. Hopnestly when done correctly the leash down does work with some dogs, so its not the approach in itself that is the issue (good to know if you ever have to train another dog) What you have to dog is work on teaching the down so that your dog gets it. I never worry about who respects whom. I know the dogs call all the shots and as long as they pretend to listen to me most of the time I am okay with it I know, you're right, Kerry. I'm trying to move past it and I will. It was just so different from other training I had with Asterisk. Asterisk really enjoyed our obedience class and she understood what was being asked of her more readily. That method may work with Wendel, he's a bit bull-headed, it just wasn't working for my girl. I'm going to try the other methods and try to make it fun. |
| I have seen the stamping on the lead technique used too but only on dogs that the trainer knows can do a drop. And if the dog and owner can cope with that method. My dalmo would go completely to pieces if I tried it but Tiggy would probably cope. I have some video of Tiggy doing a drop in the sphynx method. She is going very slowly as I'm asking her to 'bow' in the middle so you can see what's happening. I have a favorite treat in my hand so there is lots of wiggling especially in the last drop where I dont ask her to bow and she is supposed to drop faster. Its a bit hard to see as she's in full coat but to teach this method, you take the treat from in front of her nose down between her feet then slide the treat back towards her chest. If you are to the side of your dog which works best for training but not for videoing then you can cheat and use your other hand gently on their shoulder blades at first if you want to. Dont push hard as this can create the opposite effect where the dog's muscles resist the force pushing down. As they get into the proper drop position give your command (drop, lie etc) and release the treat. Tiggy is still not a fan of a fast drop either, I dont know why. She has just always liked to take her time, my dalmo on the other hand looks like I kicked his legs out from under him he hits the ground so fast, and I used the same method for both dogs.  Now I can just stay standing and use a hand signal (my hand is flat, palm down and makes a sweeping motion a little like the movement with the treat) and Tiggy will drop. Sorry I forgot to video that bit although right at the end you can see my hand is out flat as Tiggy was mucking around for the treat and not dropping properly. Probably as we did lots with the bow command in the middle so I confused her. For what its worth I've been told by a few instructors that a dog that will lie with back legs to the side etc as you described is relaxed and they believe that this is a sign of good leadership as your dog trusts you to be the boss and tell them when its time to get up and move on. Its not what's wanted for obedience or agility though as it obviously takes longer to get going again. Hope this video helps a little. PS the first attempt is probably the best. She realised I had her favoritest treats at that point and got too enthusiastic.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTo7usCCNxw |
| Very nice video! Tiggy and Chewie do a sphinx down about the same speed.... He prefers the old down, where he sits 1st, then downs. Personally I think he does it on purpose, as it buys him more time to prolong the process and make me wait!  |
| I had a young boy ask me if Tiggy was old the other day. He thought she must be "because she is going grey". Maybe they're just keeping up the appearance of dodering old age. |
| Very nice, Mim! As they progress you stand completely upright and can drop them on a verbal only. Except on the agility table (where I teach an automatic down - the command "table" means run to the table and drop in one fluid motion) I often release them to the treat tossed behind them so they don't feel they have to drop at my feet since you often want a down at a distance or in any position relative to you for various reasons. Sybil doesn't drop superfast either (yet), except on the table, though it is clean and one efficient motion, unless I have her favorite ball in my hand. Then she goes splat, in mid gallop if that's what it takes, which is what I want. I taught her that I wouldn't throw the ball until she dropped in self defence because the alternative was that she would get so excited she'd jump up and try to grab the ball out of my hand It took her about three seconds to figure out that she can get what she wants by giving me what I want. Her brother on the other hand caught on very quickly with food only and will drop quickly at a distance already on a verbal only because to him this is the ultimate game. His mother was the same way and even though we haven't practiced it in years she will often drop even if in another room when I'm working with someone else. You can almost see her thinking: me! me! Don't waste your time on that moron! Look at me!Dogs can differ a lot. The more resistance, the more fun you make it. You can practice it a couple three times twice a day and make it really fun and the resistance goes out the window - it's a game. It's the only way I'm found of teaching it that produces a down so solid it can cut through a dog in hyperdrive mode or even under stress. When stressed, down is otherwise often the last thing a dog wants to do because they can feel very vulnerable. I learned this the hard way with Belle after a while on the table in agility. She was initially taught to down the "traditional" way, with a leash correction, because that's what some obedience instructors were teaching. That was fine for close to me or when she had nothing better to do Once I started working with her for the open obedience ring and a new trainer taught me how to teach the sphinx down the resistance went away. Every so often you can end up with a dog who some times in anticipation drops their elbows and leaves their butt up in the air And then there is Dazz who does the border collie crouch version and will down but then lift her elbows just slightly in anticipation. Keep your criteria consistent and don't reward for this and it will go away. Mim - I don't want the roll onto a hip and back legs out precicely for the reasons you mention. A down usually proceeds an action and a fold back will keep their legs nicely under them and ready to spring into action (off a table, for the remainder of the recall, off the startline) This is also very true if you want to teach the dog to crawl (which I won't intentionally do ever since Mad taught herself to do so and would creep on the start line in agility  Though it is a cute trick. Except on startlines or on drop on recalls )Only on a long down stay is the hip roll somewhat desirable as they tend to be steadier. The only times I ask for a sit to a down are in the obedience ring on the down stay and in the rally ring when the sign calls for it. So I teach the fold back first so that's the default and teach the other after. Otherwise you risk ending up with a dog who defaults into thinking down is a two part action: sit then down. That takes much longer and can give them too much time to consider their options. Kristine |
| Mim, that's a great video! Very helpful, too. I'm going to work with Asterisk this weekend in intervals. She still hasn't quite figured out yet what I'm asking her to do. The only moves she does reflexively is sit and wave bye-bye for a treat. But she learned those moved fairly quickly, so I'll try the treating method to a full down. She will slowly do a sit to a down, but I'd like for her to learn both ways. |
| Erin, maybe you should take a copy of the video with Dawn's comments on Chewie's speed too and show the trainer so she can see that sheepies just like to take their time. When Tiggy was less than a year old I had her at a different training group. She was tired and we got there late so there was no time for the social butterfly to meet with other dogs. She was NOT impressed. Every time we were asked to do a sit she wiggled her butt round behing my left leg and leaned on me at darn near a 45 degree angle and whenever we were asked to stand she dropped and lolled about on the lawn. It was more comfy I guess. At the end of the session as I was beating a hasty retreat the trainer bustled over and asked me "do you know what you are doing?" I explained that some of the training was a little different and that Tiggy had fancied a drop not a stand today as we'd been practising it a lot. "no, no, drop is a submissive posture, she wouldnt do it in preference to a stand" was the trainers response. She told me that she would show me how to do a stand with Tiggy. I very nearly whooped and danced with joy when Tiggy preceded to look even more peed off (if a dog could pout she would have) and promptly belly flopped on the lawn every time the trainer asked her to stand.  In the end the trainer beat a more hasty retreat as we had an audience and brought Tiggy home and gave her extra of her favorite treats. When I told Wayne about it he was stoked, gave her lots of cuddles and said he liked a dog with spunk. So the moral of the story is...........find a trainer who you and your dog are comfortable with. As Dawn (I think) said a good trainer is flexible. |
Mim wrote: So the moral of the story is...........find a trainer who you and your dog are comfortable with. As Dawn (I think) said a good trainer is flexible. A good trainer wants to see you & your dog succeed in the show ring. It's a feather in their cap! I remember the day Melody placed 1st in Novice A. My trainers at the time were there competing at a different level & they introduced us to all their friends as one of their students & we placed first that day! It almost got embarrassing In order to win & do well, they need to be flexible in training. What works for 1 dog just isn't going to work for another. I'd kill to have a dog that flopped down on it's side & snoozed for 5 minutes during the long down like some of the others do in class. Ain't gonna happen.  I have herding dogs. It's hardwired into them to "keep an eye on everything". My instructors at first said I shouldn't accept ANY movement whatsoever in the down....not even a head turn. After a year, they have figured out my guys do a decent down but the head moves so they can make sure every dog is staying in place! Hey, I'll take it! After 1 year of training the down to Melody & then praying silently as I counted out the seconds on the sit & down.... a moving head doesn't bother me a bit. A good trainer will see the differences in not only the dogs but the breeds & come up with something that will turn the light bulb on in your dog's head. They LOVE it when that happens. |
| How are things going??? Have you had another class yet? |
Mim wrote: How are things going??? Have you had another class yet? Our next class has been postponed till Monday the 29th. Asterisk is really coming along well. She didn't understand putting the treat from her nose to between her feet. So we started from a sit to a down using a treat. She understand the hand motion more than the word. After a few attempts, she is going from a stand to a down. I just have to insure that I am using the correct treat that she likes. When I give her a biscuit and try the down she doesn't down as quickly. We're still working on it, and hope to quicken the pace. She's been getting a lot of praise after she accomplishes the down. |
| Nice work! A lot of people cave when the dog doesn't easily get the stand to a down concept and just go with the sit to a down, but nice transition!! Do keep in mind that eventually she's going to have to do the behavior without the lure...Eventually Sybil is a fine one for trying to pull the "show me the money!" ploy. Her brother just drops, splat. It seems like the dumber they are, the easier they are to train. Well, maybe that's not fair. The boy dog trusts me to remember to reward him for his efforts and drops like a ton of bricks. Sybil, not quite there yet Not that you shouldn't still be using treats/lures at this stage - you should. But I'm gonna take a guess that the little missy is not at all keen on the down if she's asking you not only to show her the money but she's taking the time to evaluate if it's worth her while Just keep working at it. Make it fun enough and believe it or not it will become self rewarding. You're just probably going to have to keep working it for a while. But great start!Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: But I'm gonna take a guess that the little missy is not at all keen on the down if she's asking you not only to show her the money but she's taking the time to evaluate if it's worth her while Kristine Boy, do you have that right! Not only does there have to be a lure, but she's testing is she really needs to go all the way down. She'll have her back end on the ground and then will do a little pyramid with her top half, kind of resting on her feet rather than all the way down. We don't give her the reward till she is all the way down though. |
* Capt. Obvious Danger wrote: Mad Dog wrote: But I'm gonna take a guess that the little missy is not at all keen on the down if she's asking you not only to show her the money but she's taking the time to evaluate if it's worth her while Kristine Boy, do you have that right! Not only does there have to be a lure, but she's testing is she really needs to go all the way down. She'll have her back end on the ground and then will do a little pyramid with her top half, kind of resting on her feet rather than all the way down. We don't give her the reward till she is all the way down though. sounds like training Miss Marley - Morgan always dropped like a ton of bricks instantly and then did that panting thing that always reminds me of the cartoon dog - which way did they go uh uh which way did they go? - looking for a treat. Marley was like - hmm I don't really think there is a treat I like around. In the long run I think she is better at the command now that treats aren't always involved than Morgan. She is a bit quicker with the sit and the down and her stay is almost as good as his. She even has an extra command learned - ALL THE WAY (DOWN) |
| My Riley is going to rival even Harry in lack of desire to down. His isn't just the table, it's a down anywhere, any place. He's a sensitive rat terrier - much softer than most. BUT, he still has to show he has some terrier in him every once in awhile - and this is his stronghold! Maybe by the time he is ready to compete they will have eliminated the down on the table  Probably too much to hope for, I know. And it has become a personal thing with me now - can I outwait and outfox Riley??? I hope to get a start with him this summer, should be interesting. This is one dog that has enormous potential, he is fast and incredibly athletic - just need to get inside his little brain! And he's 4 now too - and my dog that has no job. I guilt over this, endlessly. He just hangs out. Todd would have like to squirrel hunt with him - but he's gunshy. I tried flyball - he hates tennis balls....  I could do rally - and probably will, just to make us a better team.  |
| even if they do away with the down on the table, I hate to say, an automatic down will save you some headaches (and Q's) by making them collect better as they approach the table. Its especially good if he is fast. Does he like treats? Being up on the table and up off the ground with a lot of treats might help him accept the down there a bit better. |
kerry wrote: even if they do away with the down on the table, I hate to say, an automatic down will save you some headaches (and Q's) by making them collect better as they approach the table. Its especially good if he is fast. Does he like treats? Being up on the table and up off the ground with a lot of treats might help him accept the down there a bit better. Oh, he's one of my biggest treataholics. Eats anything and everything. Prime scavenger and all that. So the fact that he is not bribeable in this shows me we are in for a long haul. We started on the down on the table last fall (and had to stop because the table got buried in snow), and made a tiny bit of progress. He is equally sure I will cave and give it to him without a down, as I am sure it will never happen. So, now that spring and my table are back, I need to get my yummy treats and a comfy chair and park ourselves at the table. I'm curious to see if he remembers the jig |
since we are recently working on the automatic down - one hint? We keep the food on the table under our hand until the down is complete. they know its there and they usually end up going down to try to force it out. I can't tell you how quickly miss flyby has perfected this new trick - to the point where we had to lift her off the table the other day  |
kerry wrote: since we are recently working on the automatic down - one hint? We keep the food on the table under our hand until the down is complete. they know its there and they usually end up going down to try to force it out. I can't tell you how quickly miss flyby has perfected this new trick - to the point where we had to lift her off the table the other day umm, Kerry - that is what we are doing. He is more stubborn than the average dog - hence the need for treats and a comfy chair...maybe a bottle of Spotted Cow as well....I had him down to about 10 minutes before he caved last fall..... I figure I might as well be comfortable, as it will most likely take awhile. And he is the same in the house, on a couch, at class, wherever. It's just his one stubborn thing. And he is the sweetest, easy dog otherwise and is super fast at learning. He just has objections to the down.... or I should say to him doing the laying down action. Once down he is perfect! Stubborn terriers! |
| If she likes the sit to down and you really want to train a sphinx down you could try bringing a really yummy treat from her nose down to the floor but move it forward slightly instead of back toward her feet. It works for some dogs but the problem can be that a lot of dogs walk forward instead of lying down. Using a kind of scoop method, down and then out is the best way to try it. Glad to hear that she's going so well. |
got sheep wrote: kerry wrote: since we are recently working on the automatic down - one hint? We keep the food on the table under our hand until the down is complete. they know its there and they usually end up going down to try to force it out. I can't tell you how quickly miss flyby has perfected this new trick - to the point where we had to lift her off the table the other day umm, Kerry - that is what we are doing. I know that - but other people reading it didn't have details  |
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