teaching Heart to tug!!!!
Heart won't tug~~AT ALL!!! It's not that I trained this rather unacceptable behavior out of her, she has never been a tugger..... Is there any way I can get her to ??? This weekend I tried to get her to 'play' with a long stuffie snake with squeakers on each end. I tried putting it on the ground and having her 'get it'...she didn't, she just looked at me, like...????? what the heck?? I even tried to put peanut butter in the mouth of the snake so it would intice her to tug..she tried to lick it, but then Coz came up and tugged until he got it away from me...  I suspect this trainer has no idea of how to think like a sheepdog..she has border collies ..but I really like her and I think I can learn from her...but.................... ......heart won't tug.....  |
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| Same here when I started obedience & agility. I just told the instructor that I don't let my dogs do that because it can cause bite problems in my breed (which it can). Most of the time I never have to get my dogs revved up anyway. But if I had to, talking to them is generally enough. Mine have alwasy been more food motivated anyways. Show them a treat & the adreneline starts flowing. |
| I agree with Marilyn. Maybe you could rev up Heart by talking to her. I can easily get my dogs revved up and ready to go by just speaking in a higher pitched voice. They start bouncing instantly! |
| I hate to disagree - but yes they can be taught to tug, and no it doesn't have to cause bite problems (particularly in a grown dog). Actually I wish I had encouraged it more when they were pups. Both of mine tug to various degrees - unfortunately Marley won't tug in front of other dogs yet. But if you can get a good tug, you can get good drive and better agility (ie more focus and less wandering) CLean run sells a mesh tug which any dog will tug on because as they tug they get some of the nice soft food you put inside of it.  Kristine's dogs tug and I am sure she will have words of wisedom. |
To each his own but I have this info from several very informed sources including breeders & veternarians. If I have to get them up, I'd rather get them up emotionally than physically. As I said before, I usually don't have dogs that need to get up. I usually have to drag them down off the ceiling!  And our dogs' heads grow for 4-5 years in our lines. |
ChSheepdogs wrote: And our dogs' heads grow for 4-5 years in our lines. Yeah tell me about it - I got clocked the other day not paying attention. What I said (or meant to have said ) is done properly tugging should not affect their bite - which if you aren't showing, is not as big an issue anyway. Nothing gets them into agility as much as a tug from what I have seen. of course it depends on the level you want to play. |
Bert loves to play tug, but, the very BEST way to "rev him up" (as if it were necessary ) is to get him to chase me. We play "keepaway" around a table or other piece of furniture  I guess I don't need to worry about his bite too much, since his overbite is what ended his show prospects, anyway. |
When I did agility with my german shepherd we had to sit before she started (I did it in fun classes and groups as she never did the weave poles) she focused on me and listened to my voice and hand signals But she was very fast. I know OES are not GSD's but maybe get heart reved up by the sound of your voice???? When playing tug I have always been told not to let the dog win all the time. But I have bad dogs now so I cannot advise  |
We had the same advice/problem when we started agility with Inca - and although Inca will play tug in the house, she's not at all interested when it comes to training  . The trainer did suggest we should teach her to tug (probably because that's what his BCs do ) but we decided not to go that route as Inca is not toy focussed at all - she's much more food motivated. In the end we chose to use a squeaky toy (mainly to keep her attention) and lots of cheese.. but its the cheese she works for, couldnt care less about the toy.. and I'm pretty sure she would run the course just for the fun of it by now anyway!  |
| I taught Chewie to tug about a year and a half - to 2 yrs ago. Before that we never had tugged at all. Being a therapy dog person, I never encourage any mouthiness at all. Chewie NEVER was one of those nippy, mouthy puppies - mine never are of any breed because that is one behavior neither Todd or I allow at all. So, teaching a tug was totally opposite of everything we had done the 1st 2-3 yrs of his life. I did experiment with fabrics. The best luck I had was with a pure fleece, braided. Nothing rough or abrasive. I really played and got him excited 1st - played our dodgy version of tag w/ me swooping in and out at him. Then I introduced the tug, rubbed it on him and around his face while playing. Eventually he grabbed at it and I just kept encouraging it. Soon I was able to pull back and engage some actual tugging. Chewie isn't the most food driven dog - I leave him loose in the car w/ my training bag and treats, groceries and he never touches them. So having tug as an option has worked fabulous for us. I use my release word to end the session and it works great. LeAnne and Martha's foundation agility class is doing tugs as well. Martha loves hers - in fact she just got Martha a new one this weekend w/ a tennis ball in one end (Martha LOVES balls). I made Chewie's - I braided 3 strips of fleece and made a knot on one end and a loop handle on the other. I alternate treats and tugs in our classes - he especially benefits from the tug when we are really working on a new skill and he gets to that wound up, frustrated stage.It's like a quick, approved way of venting! A quick tug and he is back focused. Also, he gets bored w/ just treats and likes it more when I mix it up. I will have both "on me" and I surprise him LeAnne's instructors also had a good way to look at treat vs tug - treats work good for small motor (detail) skills and tugs work well for large motor (general) skills. I guess that really made sense for us, working in the ortho/neuro/OT worlds of medicine. I also had a bright idea to focus him at the end of runs. I got a slip lead, one of those braided ones, at an agility trial. I worked him with it as a tug, then introduced it in classes. I was so thrilled that in our 1st trial he ran over to the bucket at the end of his run, grabbed his tug leash and bounced over to me to tug! YES! It actually worked in a trial just like I hoped it would  I recently demo'd our tug to a group of adults at a therapy visit and they were amazed. Chewie was being his usual calm self. I got the tug out and revved him with a good session of tugging, complete with him grunting, pulling me, and all in a couple seconds. Then I said "all done" and he immediately stopped, wiggled and sat. Pretty impressive |
| Tug is a great game. I tug with both of them. Or they play tug together. Langley had to tug for Flyball. Many trainers and dog behaviourist are changing their minds on tug games. I make my guys release 90 % of the time and let them win the other 10% so they still want to play and feel good about it. If you get a long tug toy there shouldn't be any worries of accidental bites. Of course people have their reason not to like Therapy. I didn't want to teach Langley give paw just because Laika was so dangerous with the paw at times. But then I had to actually teach him for flyball but I moved on quickly to the target so it didn't click in giving paw. He doesn't paw at all just gentle head nudges which I rather than a big rough paw. |
| If Heart likes balls I would try the tug that Dawn mentioned with a ball in the end. Otherwise stick with Dawn's method of starting out with Heart's favorite game and then turning it into a tug game gradually. Tiggy loves to tug, but I have taught her "that'll do" means we've finished and its time to settle. Well as settled as a 2 year old sheepie can get. |
| I found out that even the lug Morgan loves to tug - with a Frisbee!! you may have to experiment with what works. And I don't know why I just thought of this - but a real tug should only be done when the dog has grasped with their back teeth. You also get further by not encouraging them to tug, but rather by trying to keep them from tugging - usually playing a sort of keepaway is a first step. Make them chase you or jump for the toy or tug - soon they will grasp it securely and then tug. I use "yes!" as a marker when they tug and then verbalize a bit (yes I growl with them). A good that will do or out command is also very necessary. Once in awhile - let them win the tug and run off with it - but that is probably a bit down the line. If all else fails let them see you play tug with a dog who will while they are restrained (although with Morgan he started when Marley and i were tugging and he got in the middle of it (but you have to know your dogs and know you can keep it from turning into a power play between them) And if all else fails get a newfie - they love to tug so much all the other dogs think it must be fun  |
| ^^^^^^^^^^ Oh yeah, I forgot, I growl lots too. And I copy Tiggy too, if she jumps back instead of walking back I jump too, if she gives ground then I'll give some ground, if she shakes the tug from side to side then so do I, it seems to make her really happy and excited. Kind of like Halleluja, the two legs finally gets the idea, all these months of training and at last she's worked out how to play a proper game of tug. And yes I mainly do it when there are no other humans around. They already think I'm mad, no need to give them further cause. |
| ^^^^^ I've been told never side to side - always up and down (although obviously slowly side to side is okay) may have something to do with neck damage? Its early here |
| Yep neck damage. the muscles that control the up and down action are stronger than those that control the side to side motion. That's why I wont use a halti/gentle leader with Tiggy as she just takes off when she sees a dog running and I'm worried she'll really damage her neck. It is very slow side to side that we do. I copy the way she and Rastus play tug together, so I can kid myself that they really think I'm a dog too. |
| Baloo has been tugging from the moment he arrived, it seems. He loves to tug. I just stand still and hold the toy and let him tug on his own. Once in a while I may wiggle the toy but nothing aggresive. Lily.. HA. Not a chance. She won't tug at all. She doesn't even like to play chase!! Not for a ball, stick, toy, or treat. She looks up at me as if to say "HMPH. If I can't get it on a silver platter it's not worth my time" She will chase Baloo at the park if I throw a ball (he'll chase anything!) but it's not for fun for her. It's more like she's telling him to STOP IT. |
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