Negative Experiences with Backyard Bred OES
If you're comfortable, share your negative experiences, estimate what it cost you to correct or work with the problem and what your breeder did, if anything, to help. (Positive experiences can go in another thread.) Let's also keep this without opinions or discussion. Though, of course, your opinions are welcome, start a new thread if you want to discuss other issues. Let's try to keep this one pure experience! |
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| My dog Barney came from a pet store originally. Well, not originally, but that's where his first owner bought him, for $1500, I might add, so not getting him there b/c it was cheap. His birth certificate says he's from Missouri, so putting 2 and 2 together, Missouri and pet store don't equal anything good. I noticed when Barney was younger that he seemed to have trouble standing up from the lying down position, and that when he ran (back in the days that he ran  ) that he had a sort of limp. So we had him xrayed when we got him neutered and found out that his hips were bad, even at that young age.He's only 5 1/2 and he limps on our walks, has a lot of trouble getting up from lying down, needs to be lifted into our car b/c he can't jump, and has even collapsed on a walk once and my husband had to carry him home. He's had major skin issues, and just last week we found out he's hypothyroid, so will have to take a medication for that for the rest of his life. Depending on how much that also clears up his skin, we might have to give him allergy shots for environmental allergies. I have NO idea how much $$ we've spent, or inevitably WILL spend on Barns. My free dog (I got him from the lady who bought him from the pet store, who initially was asking $1500 to get her money back but settled on free ) will definitely cost us thousands in maintenance.I will definitely be getting a well-bred dog next time. I love Barney to death though, and everyone says he's the sweetest sheepie ever (although he DOES have his stubborn moments and has even growled at us before) |
| I have had 4 dogs in the past 37 years..... Ignoring the regular vet visits, shots, spaying, normal expenese such as food, toys.. etc..here is a history of my dogs and the approximate cost to date..... 37 years ago.... Aanie, my cocker. Paid about $800.00 for her from a BYB. After the 'sale'... the ""breeder"" wouldn't return my calls......Aanie would fear pee and eat the walls. Very bad skin problems that required me to give her daily injections, at a cost of $5.00 per shot. And died at the ripe old age of 6 from multiple seizures. Estimated cost including the extra vet visits, other meds..probably about $12,000.00 Aanie was a very poor bred dog, and her temperament was very unstable. She was not a joyful dog...I did love her as she was my first baby after we got married, but all her health problems made her miserable...... That experience scared me soo much I did not get another dog for a while. 20 years ago Rescued Millie, my Beardie originally from a BYB..Paid NOTHING!!!..She was a great dog, except she had hip problems from the age of about 6... Although healthy, the meds and treatment for her hips were great!! Acupuncturist/at $150.00 each/about 20 times... ..........................$3,000.00 (couldn't afford it anymore) Hip meds..............2 pills a day..$1.00 a pill...for 8 years........$5,760.00 Total about...................$9,000.00 She was my joyful dog and it hurt me so much to see her body weaken when her spirit was so strong!!!!!AND she was in pain much of her later life, until she fell at the age of 14 and never got back up...... 14 years ago.... REscued Pearl, an OES from the Humane Society, and although she was there, she must have been from a quality breeder from the comments from the staff, about her papers, which they, the HS shreds..., since she was able to overcome the first couple months of a terrible life, until she came into ours.... Cost of the OES..................$250.00 Cysts removed years ago......$150.00 Testing for Thyroid when she was 13 including geriatric blood work.............$150.00 Total to date...............$550.00 no other health issues to date.. total to date about.........$1,100.00 This dog is so sweet, kind and loving...I have had no major problems with her,,except she is aging, unfortunately something I have NO control over........ 5 years ago..... Bought Cozmo, my Beardie for $400.00 Costs of behaviourist...$300.00 " " of anxiety meds for 3 years at $100.00 per month.............................$3,600.00 Cost of vet exams more than normal.......$1000.00 Cost of tests.........................................$250.00 Cost of skin meds and ear meds (which are pretty constant.....................................$1500.00 ......Approx ...$7050.00 to date. and who knows how much more??????? AND....He will never be a normal dog. He does not have the joy that my other 2 have, he allows his fears to take over. He is loving, but he does pull back alot when I try to cuddle him. Yet...he yearns for attention. He is a beauty, great markings but the BYB had no idea what they were doing and ruined the whole litter !!! I know that if we hadn't kept him (I tried to return him after the ride home, but was told she would take him the pound to get PT)..he would not be here. But he is with us...and we love him and accept him for what he can give us...I would never buy from a BYB ever again. 3 yrs ago. Heart, I paid about....$2,000.00 And now she is having a cysts removed...$250.00 NO skin problems to date...NO major health problems to date...no extra trips to the vet to date.. TOTAL to date......$2,550.00 AND she is a very happy, sweet pupper!!!!! In my experiences, the cost of buying from a BYB was not a savings at all...But in addition, a poorly bred dog..IS,IN MANY CASES, NOT A HAPPY, HEALTHY DOG!! MANY OF THEM HAVE ISSUES THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO FIX.... ~~~And finally, the money I thought I was saving by buying from a BYB, double or tripled during the life, however short, of the dog...and I had to watch my 'baby' in pain, and that is something that just tore my heart out...... I would get another one from a quality breeder at any cost...odds are that there will be no major health issues, behaviour issues... !!!!!! |
| I have owned 12 OES since 1964. Two were puppies bought from a well-known and reliable breeder, one was from a BYB (the only survivor of a parvo litter). The rest were rescued dogs from 1 to 7 years in age that came originally from a variety of sources including two puppy-mill dog's, at least two from back yard breeders, and one that was a pick of the litter from a well known breeder that wasn't up to the show expectations of the person who bought her. First of all I think anyone considering an OES puppy should first think about contacting their local OES rescue group and seriously consider adopting an older dog. For many if not most people a re-homed dog is actually a better choice and there are always needy sheepdogs looking for the right home. If you finally decide on a puppy though, I distinguish between back yard breeders and puppy mill pet store/internet dogs. While I would not choose either for a puppy, for both ethical and possible health reasons discussed already, a byb is, at least to me, the lesser evil. Back yard breeders are ignorant, but operators of commercial puppy mills are just plain evil. That said, once these sheepdogs are brought into the world, they can make wonderful pets too. There is nothing wrong with being the SECOND owner of such a dog who comes into rescue and I don't hesitate to adopt one even if a dog clearly came from a less than desirable source originally. In truth, of my 9 rescued OES, I have had no more and no less problems later in life with my rescued dogs whether they came originally from a puppy mill or were from a reputable breeder. All of them were wonderful companions. Any reputable rescue group or public shelter (I have owned two wonderful OES from shelters) will of course see to it that the dog is spayed or neutered before it is re-homed. If they don't, you should. Never, ever tell yourself "Maybe we will want to breed someday." |
Not to get off the topic But there are not many OES in rescue. Please don't shoot the messenger.......now if someone is looking for a GSD or Lab  Yes rescue dogs are the best. I have a friend that waited a long time to get her rescued oes. People get tired of waiting and then go to a quick fix BYB or UGH puppy mill. When they could wait for a puppy from a decent breeder. |
| Mrs J - please don't get me wrong, I'm really happy you've had such a positive experience with Yuki and her breeder. <in response to Joahaeyo viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28672> That said, mention her breeder's name to at least two OES rescue groups in her area and you will get an earful. Never mind the poor pet owners who came on the forum last year asking for advice about two severely dysplastic puppies, littermates, they got from her. No help from her. I can't even begin to express how angry I was. The day we know for sure she's bred her last litter I guarantee you champagne will flow in the upper Midwest. Might as well add checking with OES rescue to the checklist of researching breeders. Kristine |
Quote: Never mind the poor pet owners who came on the forum last year asking for advice about two severely dysplastic puppies, littermates, they got from her. No help from her. I can't even begin to express how angry I was. Hopefully the family will post an update on these dogs...  |
| It's like the old STP commercials, "You can pay me now or pay be later." Using the excuse the carefully bred dog costs too much so I'll get "just anything" delays the bills: healthy problems show up later. You can pay a couple of thousand up front verses paying even more to the "ortho-vet" for reconstructive surgery or years on pain meds. As Mrs. J was able to demostrate to Mr. J, so others should take heed carefull breeders will lessen the chance (not eliminate) of a dog having problems. As one who did rescue for two breeds, we've had very few "properly" bred dogs and a lot of casual bred dogs. Maybe 3 or 4 dogs of our dogs who were "quality"-- that is they came from carefully bred stock. The rest have all been "problems." Either they were bizarre versions of the breed: MO with no undercoat, Jack's hips (though I'm not discounting too early neuterings for him), Fox with a fox face, Glacier the "dwarf" etc., or from an early age showed structural problems: Harry being a prime example. All have been "rescues". I'm not saying all rescues are bad, but chances are if someone is going to pay big bucks for a quality dog, they are not going to abandon the dog. I love my rescues, they have all been great dogs. I can overlook their bizarre to breed characteristics (they can be endearing like Glacier's size), but it pains me to see some of the issues the others must endure because of their casual breeding. Alas, I'm married to one of those "pay later" kind of guys who faints when I mention the price of a quality bred dog but sees no problem paying $100 a month for Rimadyl. |
4dognight wrote: Not to get off the topic But there are not many OES in rescue... In the relative sense, I am sure you are right, there are few OES in rescue at any one time. But every time I have been looking for a sheepdog, I have never had to wait more than two months for a rescued sheepdog to become available. Maybe it's partly because I live in an area where there are a lot of sheepdogs (northern California), but I would hope that calling the local rescue group and checking local shelters is the first thing people do if they are thinking about getting a dog. I wouldn't want to discourage anyone by thinking their chances of finding a good dog are slim. Once organizations know you are serious, you can get on the top of the list for a match. Right now, with all of the home foreclosures and family disruptions still happening, a lot of dogs are being surrendered. |
Mad Dog wrote: Mrs J - please don't get me wrong, I'm really happy you've had such a positive experience with Yuki and her breeder. That said, mention her breeder's name to at least two OES rescue groups in her area and you will get an earful. Never mind the poor pet owners who came on the forum last year asking for advice about two severely dysplastic puppies, littermates, they got from her. No help from her. I can't even begin to express how angry I was. The day we know for sure she's bred her last litter I guarantee you champagne will flow in the upper Midwest. Yeah that's terrible. I'm very blessed my experience with her wasn't like that. Even surprises me since she seemed to email seconds after I always emailed her. BUT after hearing she'd get her dogs properly tested (what she said she'd do after a debate on here), I was very disappointed with new people that came on the board with disappointing experiences from her. I also got several pm's in the years being on here. That's when I stopped communication between us. It's because of what I've learned on here that we didn't go back to her. As I said, my husband and I both get sad when I look at Yuki's delicate body now. |
| I have permission to begin to share the story of Shakespeare and Holly. I want people to understand that the purpose is NOT to make anyone think any less of their own great dogs nor is it to shame them. MY purpose is simply to help people understand why they must think about the parents that produced their next puppy BEFORE they buy him or her. http://1890063.sites.myregisteredsite.c ... arents.jpg  If there is anything incorrect here, Shakespeare's and Holly's previous owner can post to correct it. Note however that there is photo documentation of both dogs; two vets on behalf of two different rescues examined these dogs the day they were sold; and there are PDF files of the ads responded to that appeared on Puppyfind... the ad for the bred female appeared on NextDayPets. Quote: Puppyfind.com $800 I have a proven pair available for someone interested in raising sheepdogs. Call for more information. They are both young healthy dogs but we are cutting back and they really need to be rehomed. She should be in heat and ready to breed sometime in the next couple of months. Both beautiful dogs. Call for more info. Quote: NextDayPets.com Price: Negotiabile Bred female needs home Hello, I have a beautiful female that throws gorgeous puppies and is bred that really needs a new home...call for more info. It's a fact that OES rescues seldom buy dogs into rescue. But some all-breed rescues do rescue differently... they call it "ransoming" dogs. I was one of the private individuals who reluctantly later reimbursed part of what was a ridiculous purchase price so Shakespeare and Holly could get into an OES rescue. I've mentioned publicly recently that paying to "rescue" a dog can simply enable a breeder to put new dogs in the same position. It's just wrong if it's more than a token fee. When confronted that the dogs were sick, it was said that the seller offered to take these dogs back but the all-breed rescue refused. Hopefully others that were actually involved will post more about what happened, about the dogs themselves. Shakespeare is currently known as Jake on Petfinder. He has been in rescue for about 9 months now and as mentioned, he's proven difficult to place. You can read more here- http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/15812725?recno=16 .  |
| I don't normally get into long debates but I feel so strongly about this. Many of you know I am active in Old English Sheepdog Rescue, German Shepherd Rescue, All Breed Rescue and have started doing Black Dog Rescue on my own Hoping one day to have an up and running Black Dog Rescue I will always have GSD's OES's and Labs in my life and will continue to help the breeds. We all make choices. I was not looking for another dog when Guinness came into my life He actually was being surrendered to MAGSR (GSD rescue) because they could not sell him or get a response from an OES rescue till after I took him. I did track his breeder down ,wanting her to have a chance to rehome him. After talking to her I would not have returned him if she paid me!! He has a wonderful temperment and has proven to be the greatest therapy dog and companion in our home Yes he has cost me over 15,000 in surgical bills Partly because I had vets that ,well, just did not communicate. If he had just had an FHO to begin with We may have been home free. That is another story. My home is always full of black dogs, german shepherds and lab fosters. I have not had an OES foster in many months I am so happy they are not falling out of the sky as other breeds are. My girl Molly was an owner surrender at 1 year but someone called me that knew the owners and knew I had wanted a little girl sheepie.(and was involved in rescue) She has had no medical issues (yet) but is a little crazy but we love her.We picked her up sight unseen and knew no matter what she would remain with us forever. So I guess I have had both good and bad experiences with BYB dogs I could not ask for nicer dogs Would I take a rescue again ?Depends on the dog (I have 5 now so no time soon) would I like to have a well put together dog one day Maybe. If I chose to buy 2000 would not be an issue, if I adopt well thousands of $$ would be now if there were medical issues. I will just be happy with the wonderful dogs I have now and make a good decision down the line if I ever want another dog. |
| Hello. I am here to post about our bad experience with <edit: breeder's name removed, please PM user for info>. We had a terrible experience with her. You can read about it in the post on this forum. I would like to update you on Teddy and Trevor, although in doing so, I am sure to be blacklisted from this forum. Teddy and Trevor were euthanized last month. They began getting more agressive with each other and us. Teddy had bit my daughter when he was about 5mo old and then Trevor bit one of the kids in Nov. They began getting territorial and dangerous. We just couldn't trust them around the young kids. That also played into our decision. We watched them suffer for 5 months and when they would have to be carried up the driveway after their walk, had trouble relieving themselves, and whimpered in pain at night, we knew it was time to say good-bye. We did consider surgery for them, but our vet said that their hips were soooo bad on both sides that he couldn't guarantee they would be healthy even after the surgery. We also considered shots to their joints but he didn't think even that would provide much relief. In the end we decided to just continue their pain meds (trying different ones as needed) and glucosamine supplements and love them up as best we could. It was a very difficult decision. I am hoping there is at least someone on this forum who will not judge us to be horrible people because of the decision we had to make. If you had seen these two pups, you, too, would have made this decision. On Sunday I applied to rescue Oliver from Happy Hounds Rescue in Osseo, MN. My application was denied for two reasons: 1. I euthanized my pups at a young age and 2. our family can afford to buy a new puppy from a reputable breeder. I was stunned. Apparently the founder of Happy Hounds Rescue has access to information from Midwest OES Rescue because that's how she said she found out about my past experience. She also stated that Midwest OES offered to help us with our dog's surgery. I have never been contacted by Midwest OES. That information is just wrong. So in trying to do what was best for my pets, I inadvertently disqualified our family from rescuing another OES. This doesn't make any sense to me on many levels. We went through alot with our pups. And now, despite our desire to help an OES, we have been deemed unfit pet owners. Some of you may agree that we shouldn't be allowed to rescue an OES or that we aren't responsible pet owners. That's okay. You are allowed to have your opinions. We won't all agree. However, I would hope that this is a forum where we can share openly about our differing views and come together for the love of the Old English Sheepdogs. I have learned my lesson about BYB. I have learned how to research a breeder, what questions to ask, how to check on the answers they give, etc. We are looking for a new friend. Hopefully, there is a reputable breeder or a rescue organization in our area that won't hold our past experiences against us, but will get to know our family. In doing so they will find a loving, compassionate, financially stable family that would make a wonderful home for an OES. |
| There is ALWAYS going to be behind the scenes information that people just don't have. I've been guilty of forming rash opinions myself but I try to step back and consider reasons for people's decisions and actions. I'm truly heartbroken that you had to euthanize your pups. I was probably the one who mentioned seeking help from a rescue if you couldn't provide life changing surgery. A huge fault of mine is that it often takes me too many words for me to share my thoughts. It was the bottom line of my post here- viewtopic.php?f=21&t=27179&hilit=teddy+trevor You could have simply gotten tired of my rambling and moved on to the next post. I'm am so terribly sorry I was not able to help you. I fear this post too will be extremely long too. People hear one thing and we all sometimes forget to ask for the full story. We hear "euthanized puppies" and don't consider what may have lead to a gut wrenching decision. I float around assisting various OES rescues in the USA. Right now I'm going through this with someone who is failing to consider at least one or two other sides of a story... we have to get past this in order to find a solution. It's simply wrong. I cannot express the frustration. When you have two puppies that are biting because of intense pain, you have to make a decision. If you allow them to suffer, it's neglect. And there are much worse ways to die than to peacefully slip into sleep while in the loving arms of their owners. This had to be just horrible for you. Sometimes a good breeder might be able to help preserve a growing puppy's hips if they instruct owners to not over exercise their puppies, move to adult dog food sooner than what the dog food bag says, etc. Sometimes it's just in the genes and they're destined to have hip problems. Many of us also forget what it's like to buy a dog. I've said this before that we don't go out and buy a dog everyday. If we did, we'd quickly get smarter about the right and wrong way to buy a dog. You all know I didn't go about it right 6 years ago but I wasn't harmed by my ignorance and I got two great dogs. There is invaluable information here and other places online but if people don't know about it or know how to access it, it's worthless. I'm wondering if Happy Hounds contacted Midwest for applications... I know that one of Midwest's fosters homes is currently fostering a young male Happy Hounds picked up at auction. I'll see what I can find out. We have got to be about getting to the truth, getting both sides of a story and helping people to change if change is what is needed. The shock factor of hearing that two puppies were euthanized can take us to our knees because of our passion and love for this wonderful breed. But we have to try to remember to ask "why" it was done. I tried to call Nancy but she isn't in. I'll ask her to call you. I'll send you a PM in a moment too.  |
| For possible legal purposes and the sake of the forum, it may be better if we don't publicly name names. If someone searching needs more information, it may be best to just contact the poster directly for that kind of information. |
| chogan, I can't imagine the hearache you went through with not one but two puppies in the same situation. I find no fault with anyone, who loves their puppies, dogs, and just want the best for them. Unfortunately, sometimes, as horrible as it may sound, you did the most humane thing that could be done. I don't know all the details, but your response touched me as sincere, caring and hearsick from the circumstances that you were in. Again, I am so sorry, in my opinion, you did what you thought was best for your furpuppies. |
| So sorry for your loss and what you had to go through. SHAME on anyone who tries to judge you negatively. As someone who went through the same situation years ago with two GSD's I understand your hurt and frustration. Safety of your children and family come first. Second only you could judge the quality of your puppies lives. |
| I realize that many of these stories may invoke a lot of emotions but let's try to keep the focus of this thread just on the actual experiences. If you want to start other threads to discuss, please do so. Thanks! |
chogan wrote: We went through alot with our pups. And now, despite our desire to help an OES, we have been deemed unfit pet owners. No, you haven't. Every rescue and every breeder is different, and that's their respective right. No two dog people can agree about much of anything  And that's OK. Quite frankly, I would have done what you did. You never tell people that up front, because some times people will go to extreme lengths to save a dog, and you need to respect that. But there are limits and we need to respect that too. I'm so sorry about your boys and about everything your family went through. There's an OES out there for you if that's what you still want. It may just take some time to find the right one. Thanks for sharing your story. It's a valuable lesson for all of us. Kristine |
| Shakespeare is currently known as Jake on Petfinder. He has been in rescue for about 9 months now and as mentioned, he's proven difficult to place. You can read more here- http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/15812725?recno=16 . [/quote] I read Jake's bio and thought "Wow, he's just like our Buffett". Buffett would hide when anyone came in the house and relied on Ellie to tell him it was OK. His fear would come with fully loaded anal glands. He's been with us three years, is still a little reserved but has turned into the sweetest, kindest animal on earth. We just had to be patient and give him space. Each milestone with Buffett makes our hearts swell. The last 6 months he has learned to play and act silly just like a Sheepie should.  I hope someone reads this and decides to give Jake a chance. The rewards come slow but are worth waiting for. |
| We have always rescued dogs until our OES puppy Rascal. My hubby is awesome with training/working w troubled dogs. Rescued dogs always come with baggage of one sort or another. You must be patient and loving with them. I feel for the person that had to put down her pups but support her. She had the right heart and reasons. We have been there. It takes courage and love to put a dog down when it is the right time. Our first aussie was abused physically, but the most amazing companion...had to watch him around strangers. They day he attacked our son, Schnaps was 15, we put him down...vet thought he had a stroke. Our second aussie rescue was also an abused dog, took 2 years to turn him around and then one day, he rescued our two sons from a charging bear...treed the bear, and was the most amazing dog ever after...he then knew his purpose in our family. Our next rescue Frannie was not touched by humans until we adopted her at 4 months, it has taken years for her to accept our petting, but she is a good dog. Miller our golden came from a broken home, had lived at least 10 places before us, awesome big dog, but ended up attacking a friend out of the blue at the age of 10 or 11...vet thought something went wrong like a stroke...he had always had a bad heart. We also put him down... Our basset rescue, MiLo, is grumpy, don't know what his home was like but he definetely needs his nap each day! He is my cat dog...always in my lap. Bubba was given us by our vet. He has a pin and screw in his leg and will always be on pain meds...needs new hips, but no guarantee that will relieve him of pain. He is our Momma dog and takes care of the puppies, cares and cleans and protects them. Boo is a coyote roittie mix and a beautiful little girl. Came to us half dead, pneumonia, and 2 types of fleas ... infested. She is now healthy and very happy. Now we have Rascal our OES, very mellow, already has cost us big bucks, at 3 and 4 months he got something in him that stopped him up, so off to the vets...xrays and meds really cost a lot of money! He is from a breeder and we have papers. Love him to death and is the best puppy we have ever had! He is awesome with herding our alpacas and being a watch dog but not a guard dog. He talks to us and plays and loves to be brushed! |
| Our first OES puppy was with us for one week, and his final two days were spent in the hospital fighting Parvo. The day after Albert "Bert" Einstein joined our family I took him to the vet for a check-up. It came back that he had a common, easy to treat parasite. While we were treating him for the parasite, his symptoms began to get worse. I returned to the vet and the new vet in our office (he had a short stay at my vet's office) said it was just due to the parasite. My gut feeling was that something else was wrong but at the time I wasn't well educated about Parvo. In the end we took him to an emergency vet where they identified the problem right away. We immediately started him on round the clock care, but after two days Bert succumbed to the disease. The vet bills were extraordinary, but that's not what haunts me the most. I still feel guilty over my normal vet not being able to do the check up, me not pushing the new, young guy to get a second opinion (I found out later a Parvo test costs a mere $50), but most of all, I hold guilt over whether it was right to put Bert through the treatment process knowing the odds were not in his favor. Guilt is heavy, but again that's not what haunts me the most. After Bert was diagnosed with Parvo, my mom called the woman who sold me the puppy. We wanted her to contact the other people who received puppies. Bert was the last of ten puppies, but one had left that same day to join the home of a local police officer. The woman's reaction was beyond reprehensible and she felt zero responsibility. She said the puppies were healthy and she would do no such thing (multiple vets said it was impossible for the puppy to have contracted Parvo while in our care based on the timing and other factors). We didn't ask for money, just to do the right thing and warn the other families. It was too late for Bert, but perhaps not for the other puppies. The fact that there are people who use animals for profit and have no care for quality of life is what haunts me the most. In the end, I would do it all over again so that Bert would never have had to die with that awful woman. He was an amazing puppy that never showed anything but love and appreciation. Despite the short time we had together, we developed a bond that I will carry with me forever. RIP Albert "Bert" Einstein  |
| This breaks my heart to read. I'm so sorry for your sad experience, for Berts all-too-short life, and mostly sorry that so-called breeders like that exist at all. |
| I'm so sorry, how heartbreaking for you. And unacceptable of the "breeder", if you can call her that.  |
| Daisey was the runt of a litter of 6...we got her a week after loosing Cami...on day 2 vet said Daisey had parvo and sent her home with me with a bottle to try to feed her. I held and hand fed her for 2 days with a bottle, on day 3 she went outside with me and threw up alot...sat down for a moment and then wiggled her little body and started running around for the first time...she never showed another sign of the sickness...we were so grateful as we had just gone thru Cami getting sick and dying. When we called the breeder the day we were told it was parvo..she informed us all the other puppies had died suddenly. It was so sad as we can still remember seeing them all playing around with one another. We were grateful we had Daisey and she lived thru it. |
| Gosh, I'm new on this board and this thread has me so shocked and sad. We've had Sheepies for 14 years and just got our 3rd after losing our Isabelle at 14. Our second OES (Lizzy) came from a backyard breeder. She had a couple issues within the first 18 months or her life. First off when I took her to be spayed she died on the table. Thankfully the vet caught it in time and with quick care brought her back to life, charged us 750+ dollars and we picked up an unsprayed OES. I was thankful for the good vet (not happy about having to pay for it, but her dying on the table wasn't his fault). We ended up having to go to a cardiologist because they thought she had heart problems. All turned out fine and her heart was deemed healthy. They ended up spaying her but not giving her the drug that calms them prior to administering anesthesia, Within a few months I noticed a lump on her back that turned out to be cancerous. We took her in for surgery and worried again about the anesthesia. It was a big surgery and required a lot of after care and nursing. She was cut from one side to the other (up over her back). I don't know if any of these issues were due in part to coming from a back yard breeder but we vowed to go to a reputable OES breeder for our 3rd. Puppy. We got Bentley 3 weeks ago at the age of 8 weeks old. He flew into Reagan National and into our hearts. Other than a few accidents in the crate we have him potty trained and into a routine. He is wonderful and we are thrilled. |
| Bad news today - My Old English Sheepdog (age2) was diagnosed with hip dysplasia and arthritis right hip (it was seen at 5 months old but vets want to wait for her to fully grow). AT 5 months old, she had both shoulders operated on for OCD! and another pup we adopted a male (same litter) had hemophelia The breeder offered to take Gigi back (fly her to LA at our expense), sell her and give us the money she receives from the sale minus breeder's cost of boarding etc. |
oesmom2 wrote: The breeder offered to take Gigi back (fly her to LA at our expense), sell her and give us the money she receives from the sale minus breeder's cost of boarding etc. Absolutely terrible. So she's happy to sell her off and make her someone else's medical problem, costing them thousands in expenses? Or, even worse, if she's intact, an unscrupulous owner's breeding dog that can pass on HD to further generations? Absolutely sickening. Terrible breeder. |
| Hello everyone, newbie here. Just wanted to say how sad I am to read some of your bad experiences. I've had sheepies for over 30 years, my first was home bred (that's what we call them here), and he was a beautiful dog, with the most amazing temperament. Unfortunately, just before the age of 7, he was diagnosed with the canine equivalent of Hodgkins Disease - whether this was anything to do his breeding, we'll never know. My second boy had a very good pedigree, again, wonderful temperament, but always had a delicate stomach, and lived to be almost 13. My third boy came from OES rescue, so we didn't know anything about his heritage. He came to us at 8 months old and we had him until 7 weeks ago, when he developed an oral tumour, and had a bad reaction to the anaesthetic administered to do a biopsy, and went in to heart failure the following day. We had to make the heartbreaking decision to have him put to sleep. There was nothing the vet could do to save him, and the biopsy subsequently showed that it was an extremely invasive, aggressive type of tumour. Harry was almost 12 when he died. He suffered from recurring colitis, which the vet thought might have been partly environmental, as there seemed to be an unusual amount of cases in our area. I wouldn't be surprised if Harry had also been homebred, and we also spent a fortune on vet's bills over the years, but it's what we do to ensure that our furries have a good home with us, as the alternative is unthinkable. We're devastated by our recent loss, but will be contacting the rescue again soon to see if we can offer a good home to another in need. |
| Paula, I love how you refer to them as homebred. I have a homebred boy also and so far everything is going well. He came from a one and only litter and I do know that everyone prefers that the dogs come from a reputable breeder, I knew I was taking a chance but I fell in love and at this time I have no regrets. My husband says he's probably the best dog we've ever had as far as listening goes, that could have been the fault of the parents and not the dog but in our eyes he's great. I will not apologize for giving him a home and if necessary we will do what needs to be done if it ever comes to that. |
| we have these sites in the uk <no links to potential bad breeders/puppymillers, please!--mod> I rang a few up a while ago and they offered to send puppy via post i.e flight from Ireland another from Scotland & wales as well. I tried so hard to see the parents & offered to pick up the pups. I live in England so bit of a hike to each of these places. Nope they said they would send the pup via post. Only £250 it must cost them alot to send these via post. The funny thing is that all the adds had the same pic but id diff areas/sites/papers around UK/Ireland but there are some many people after oesd these days. These farms pray on them. I know I would take one just to give it a good home as it will end up in a dog pound/rescue shelter |
| Not to bust anyone's bubble, but I and my family have had 3 rescued OES...all from suspicious backgrounds, not show quality, probably backyard breeders themselves (two came to us as a couple, the female obviously just had pups, and was infested heavily with fleas, matted beyond belief etc..). The one I have now is not show quality. All 4 turned out to be wonderful, trainable, well-behaved, gentle giants that lived and are living long, healthy, no-big-vet-bill-due-to-illnesses lives. Just because you pay $3000 for your puppy from someone that shows, does not ensure health and great behavior. The only breeder in my state that I know of that has champions in her lines also ends up with deaf pups at times. On the surface, she's pristine, she has all the right testing done, has the pedigree to show, but honestly you cannot trust anyone and a lot is up to fate and chance. There is just no guaranty with either situation. |
gallatea wrote: Not to bust anyone's bubble, but I and my family have had 3 rescued OES...all from suspicious backgrounds, not show quality, probably backyard breeders themselves (two came to us as a couple, the female obviously just had pups, and was infested heavily with fleas, matted beyond belief etc..). The one I have now is not show quality. All 4 turned out to be wonderful, trainable, well-behaved, gentle giants that lived and are living long, healthy, no-big-vet-bill-due-to-illnesses lives. Just because you pay $3000 for your puppy from someone that shows, does not ensure health and great behavior. The only breeder in my state that I know of that has champions in her lines also ends up with deaf pups at times. On the surface, she's pristine, she has all the right testing done, has the pedigree to show, but honestly you cannot trust anyone and a lot is up to fate and chance. There is just no guaranty with either situation. There are never any guarantees. One of the goals of good breeding is (should be!) reducing the risk of health and temperament problems. But there is always an element of chance. And by chance, you may end up with an extremely healthy dog with great temperament which came from a completely irresponsible greedy puppy mill or BYB. But it's a numbers game, your chances of getting an extremely healthy dog with great temperament from a truly responsible, quality breeder, is much higher. The breeder you mention doesn't sound like a quality breeder, what has she changed in her breeding program to deal with that deafness? It's not that hard to have "champions" in your line, there's a lot more to great breeding than that. And for what it's worth, I don't think the "OESCA-Referred breeder list" is all that it's cracked up to be. |
gallatea wrote: Not to bust anyone's bubble, but I and my family have had 3 rescued OES...all from suspicious backgrounds, not show quality, probably backyard breeders themselves (two came to us as a couple, the female obviously just had pups, and was infested heavily with fleas, matted beyond belief etc..). The one I have now is not show quality. All 4 turned out to be wonderful, trainable, well-behaved, gentle giants that lived and are living long, healthy, no-big-vet-bill-due-to-illnesses lives. Just because you pay $3000 for your puppy from someone that shows, does not ensure health and great behavior. The only breeder in my state that I know of that has champions in her lines also ends up with deaf pups at times. On the surface, she's pristine, she has all the right testing done, has the pedigree to show, but honestly you cannot trust anyone and a lot is up to fate and chance. There is just no guaranty with either situation. The joy and beauty of rescue dogs... when you think about it, most likely come from BYBs because responsible breeders are supposed to take their dogs back. You're right, a club affiliation should never be an automatic stamp of approval. Buyers need to ask good questions because while all breeders are to conform to one basic standard, many other important factors come into play. No matter where a puppy comes from, I strongly believe purposely bred dogs with offspring sold for profit should be OFA/CERF to reduce the odds of particular health problems. There are no valid excuses not to do it. Testing for hips, thyroid (because it can be a factor in other autoimmune conditions) and eyes at least in my opinion as a pet owner. But it also depends on what other problems have appeared in the lines so the breeder needs to be knowledgeable. In the end, many will buy from whomever they want despite being cautioned otherwise. Decide on a particular breeder, then take responsibility for our choice. Whether we've done everything well or just taken a shot in the dark when choosing a puppy, as you mentioned there are no guarantees that our particular puppy is going to be sound in health and temperament. Price paid means nothing. Pet insurance can reduce the financial stress and heartache if a dog proves to be unhealthy (e.g. Trupanion, Embrace Pet Insurance and PurinaCare are my top choices at the moment). Plan ahead... take it out on a new puppy... don't wait until you think there may be problems because pre-existing problems aren't covered. As with breeders, not all insurance coverage is created equal. Just a final thought... If we were buying our new puppy to compete in the show ring or in performance, we might find it easier to pass along a dog that failed to reach a minimum standard in health and temperament because the dog would have failed to perform it's original purpose. But as pet owner's, dogs are purposely brought in to become first and foremost a family member/companion. It's not so easy to rehome this particular dog and just move on to another. Most of us will bond quickly with whatever dog we bring through that front door and won't be able to separate emotions from common sense so easily. Good reason to choose our next puppy very carefully. Enough said... |
| Seems that recently the not-so-reputable breeders have figured out that often well-bred dogs cost considerable money. And they've adjusted their prices to match that. Often, dogs have been given up that have cost their owners over $1,000. Not too far from what some of the top breeders charge for dogs with the desirable health testing. I totally agree with Jaci's post above. There are no guarantees with any living thing but why not do whatever possible to ensure you're getting the best dog possible? Many people kick themselves after the purchase because they didn't do their homework. Now, if there weren't great dogs from questionable breeders, rescue dogs wouldn't be in such high demand. Many are great, some... not so much. When you consider the life span of a dog and the bond and trust you build with your pet it seems so wrong to make a purchase without considerable research. As far as David's comment about OESCA breeders, your frustration with the organization is understandable. Regardless, it is a starting place to select the best breeder here in the US. Always consider a breeder by their accomplishments, not by the club they happen to belong to. |
Maggie McGee IV wrote: Always consider a breeder by their accomplishments, not by the club they happen to belong to. Excellent advice. |
| Hello, I'm going to pick out a Sheepie Friday. My wife and I visited the home, parents of the litter, and breeders a few weeks before the litter was born. Everything looks great. Where can I find reviews, warnings, praises, and the like for specific breeders? I would really like to know if I need to be worried. Thanks |
| There's probably not a specific place to go to that is going to list anything like this. You'd have to ask around of "dog people". Don't be surprised if they don't want to come right out with negative comments although if they are in favor of that breeder they should be forthcoming with compliments. What I always tell people is I will send them to breeders I myself would consider buying a dog from, no matter what the breed. What you do need to be doing is asking questions of the breeder & asking for written proof of health certifications on the parents. If you go to http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamerica.org there is a link for buying a puppy & that link contains a page with suggested questions. Any reputable breeder will be happy to answer them & give you written proof of certifications. Also, be ready to have to answer alot of questions yourself. A reputable breeder wants their puppies going into forever homes. |
| Thank You, Marilyn I just wanted to know if there may be warnings posted from the area. |
| We recently lost our Sheepdog from kidney failure at only four and a half years after two months of nearly heroic care. The vets came to the conclusion that she must have been born with defective kidneys. It is very important to us to get a puppy with as good a chance at a long, healthy life as possible. |
| Quinn, I'm so sorry for your loss. How terrible for you, your family and your pup. I understand how important that next puppy will be. Unfortunately, there isn't a list of bad breeders. You know how important it is to find a good breeder. So it does require some homework on your part. And just as Marilyn has said, ask people who they would buy their next puppy from. I came to this forum 5 years ago looking for guidance. I took the advice offered and couldn't be happier with my choice. I wish I could be more helpful, but your profile doesn't list your location, so I can't suggest breeders who I know and trust, as you may be anywhere in the world. Good luck with your search. I wish you great success. |
| Thank You. I haven't put any info down because I don't want to start any talk about the breeder. Everything looked great, and I'm not skeptical of what we saw. I am just getting a little nervous now that we are getting closer to getting a new dog. The loss was horrible, and I want to make sure the new one has the best chance of being as healthy as it can. |
| Quinn, Did you try doing a search of the breeder's kennel name or last name here? Sometimes you will find discussions that might be prove to be helpful. |
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