My parents have golden retriever envy.
Their neighbor has a new golden retriever puppy who was in the front yard while they were doing work and was just sitting there behaving and my parents said Maybe we should get one. My parents have had sheepdogs since before I was born, so this is so sad to me to think they want to abandon the breed b/c of one crazy dog. I just feel bad for them too. They love their sheepie, but she's been so challenging that they don't really have a bond with her yet, and I don't want them unhappy and scared of their dog for the next 10 years. And they didn't get her from a good breeder, so there's no help coming from that source. |
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| Before Mequpak, I would have said ...that's terrible to give up on one dog and go for another. Now that we are going through something similar... I TOTALLY understand except we have no interest in getting another dog [but your parents don't have little kids in the house].
So, I'm really just saying ...i TOTALLY UNDERSTAND... I tell Valerie I am jealous that she knew instantly her dog and her weren't a fit, and returned it for what later turned out to be THE PERFECT fit. I PM her and get so jealous of all her warm fuzzy moments with her new ...now grown... pup. I'm still toughing it out, trying new things, but I have many moments I want to give up on him. Mr. J spent the past few weekends repairing crap he did to our walls. Not sure there is a wall in his "space" that hasn't been torn into ...and definitely no window sill he hasn't gone through. I love golden retrievers. ...more goldendoodles (b/c of the shedding).  |
Joahaeyo wrote: I love golden retrievers. ...more goldendoodles (b/c of the shedding). I see quite a bit of shedding in the golden and lab doodles in my classes. Currently there are 2 in the beginner classes (both pups, but unrelated) and both shed like crazy. Hair all over the handler's pants/clothes. Also most are very, very high energy and some of the hardest dogs to train that I see come through class. Of the many I see, there is only one that I would have enjoyed in my home. I see many disillusioned owners who are feeling like the doodles are the biggest lie in the dog world.  In particular Lucky's owner from my 6:30 beginner class on Thursdays. The mom brings him and she is feeling like ths isn't the dog as advertised. He is very happy, and rambunctious and knocks their 2 young children over at whim. He has the attention span of a gnat.....
sorry barney1 to hijack....I hope your parents have a better time, although it sounds like a not good match for them. |
| It depends on the type of goldendoodle you get and the quality of... there are different lines. The curly haired ones don't shed (any more or less than a dog such as a poodle). The wavier the hair, the more strands of hair that will fall. Then backyard breeder type ...flat out do not have the same low dander low shedding at all.
I used to run a board for one of the main Australian creators of the breed, so though it's been some time... I learned a lot about "the bad ones" with lots of behavioral problems (byb)
...as there are many people with OES' that I've run into that have only experience with aggressive ones. Unfortunately I hear a lot of bad stories about doodles, but I know from the 2 years I spent on the boards... they are very smart, trainable, and there needs to be a lot of research when picking your breeder ...like any dog 
Also sorry to steer from your topic b/c I know it's a serious one, but as I'm sure you've seen in the past topics about this... there are certain things I feel strongly about and doodles is one of them |
| I totally agree - I'm sure the ones I'm seeing are not well bred. BYB sort and all that. It just makes me angry that all these well meaning people are getting dogs so unsuited to their families. Sadly, most any other breed or mix would likely have been better than the dog they ended up with. And most are educated people, who feel they've done research and found the perfect "breed"...... |
Joahaeyo wrote: I'm still toughing it out, trying new things, but I have many moments I want to give up on him. Mr. J spent the past few weekends repairing crap he did to our walls. Not sure there is a wall in his "space" that hasn't been torn into ...and definitely no window sill he hasn't gone through.
That's really interesting. The very reason I took a young male from Mad's litter back: destuctiveness. He was bored out of his mind; the family was very nice, but had little kids and insufficent time for him. No harm no foul since he's fine with me and has been since I got him back, but that and other things along those lines made up my mind for me that none of my dogs will go to a familes with young children in the future. It's not fair to the dog and no fun for the family. Obviously not the issue for the dog in this thread, but I do have to agree that if you reach a point a dog is making your life miserable, then alternatives need to be considered.
Kristine |
I have to agree with Mad Dog. I took in a cat that was supposedly a holy terror. I needed a barn cat so said yes. The minute he was in the barn and given the job of "controlling" the mice he became the best cat ever (  and I am a dog person). He stopped the bitting and scratching and is now very pleasent and affectionate.
Maybe the little pupper is just bored and needs a "job" for his mind and little furry feet. Do they have any mental activities for him or do they expend some of his energy with walks. They are after all sheepies which we all know are very smart and energetic at times like they were bred to be.  |
barney1 wrote: so my parents are really struggling with their dog. My mom is scared of her and my dad doesn't really know what to do.
What a sad time for all. Good advice for a checkup with the vet. The growl is probably a symptom. Keep us updated. |
| How old is your parent's dog? I assume they have pursued training to help get a grip on the situation, maybe upping the ante in that regard; one on one training, so they can work closely with someone that can help them to be "the boss" in the situation? |
| A golden puppy sitting quietly and behaving is an oxymoran There is no such animal. Something is wrong with that puppy.
Your parents may need to sit and have an honest talk. My breed for years was working lines GSD's. I know at this point in my life 57, I can't do these guys justice. My OES is sort of down sizing for me. All the intelligence,but Ripley has an off switch,my GSD's didn't. I have fostered multiple working, sporting breeds that weren't the right fit or too young and needed too much training for the families they were with. Training,age,and the right family solves the problem. Maybe your parents would do better with a older rescue OES. Maybe they are at the point in their lives smaller might be better. If they are committed to this dog(how old is it), I agree vet check and a good trainer one on one |
| She'll be 2 next month.
Yes, they've done training before and she knows all the basics. They're currently looking into more training, though. I think they can handle her activity level. I think part of the problem is their last sheepie was a lazy one, and then got older so was even less active in general, so to have a more active, younger dog is a shock and not what they were expecting, based on the last one. I think they can work through it, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. |
| I have noticed that OES seem to come in 2 varieties; laid back and bouncing off the walls. I don't think I would have realized this if Tonks and Luna weren't one of each. So i understand your parent's position; if I went form having a Luna (laid back) to having a Tonks (think 4 years old child with a couple of shots of espresso in her) I'd probably be ready to pull my hair out too.
My only solution for Tonks is lots of activity and lots of training. Walks, and trips to the dog park, peppered with commands and occasional classes. Tonks LOVES taking her spazzy self through Agility class and Obedience class. Luna would MUCH rather be on the couch catching a nap. In fact, Luna really doesn't enjoy the classes, and often only participates because I make her, or because Tonks makes it look like so much fun, that she thinks she's missing out on something.  |
Darth Snuggle wrote: I have noticed that OES seem to come in 2 varieties; laid back and bouncing off the walls. I don't think I would have realized this if Tonks and Luna weren't one of each. So i understand your parent's position; if I went form having a Luna (laid back) to having a Tonks (think 4 years old child with a couple of shots of espresso in her) I'd probably be ready to pull my hair out too.
My only solution for Tonks is lots of activity and lots of training. Walks, and trips to the dog park, peppered with commands and occasional classes. Tonks LOVES taking her spazzy self through Agility class and Obedience class. Luna would MUCH rather be on the couch catching a nap. In fact, Luna really doesn't enjoy the classes, and often only participates because I make her, or because Tonks makes it look like so much fun, that she thinks she's missing out on something. In my VERY limited experience I'd have to agree. Tiggy is a Tonks, she's asleep or she's on full steam ahead and bouncing of the furniture. Lisa's Syd is a big cuddle bug and much more laid back. Bab's is like Tiggy, they look alike and they act alike. But a friend of mine has two goldens and the 8 year old is really laid back but was on a farm when she was young so who knows what she would have been like in the city. The 2 year old is crazy, she can give Tiggy a run for her money, so I think its like someone said, also of an age and personality thing rather than necessarily entirely a breed thing. As you said Alison the only thing that works with Tiggy is to keep her really busy. Telling her NO does nothing she just gets crazier, probably with frustration. I have to tell her what to do instead, when she's barking because I've just got home I've taught her run and get a tug toy for a game. It works about 50% of the time, depending on how long I've been away but she is getting better. She's just learnt the command "hand" so she bonks my hand with her nose when I hold it out, this stops her mouthing me. Kristine recommended a training book called When Pigs Fly, sorry dont have the author's name here. Its about bull terriers but it did give me some ideas for Tiggy. The hard thing is they have so much energy you've got to spend lots of time keeping their brains active and that gets to be quite a strain on my brain.  |
| in no particular order.... here's some good book suggestions... if you have a book title you would like added to this list, just post it in this thread or email/PM a staff member
BEFORE & AFTER GETTING YOUR PUPPY by Ian Dunbar MINE! - A GUIDE TO RESOURCE GUARDING IN DOGS by Jean Donaldson CAUTIOUS CANINE - HOW TO HELP DOGS CONQUER THEIR FEARS by Patricia McConnell CLICK TO CALM - HEALING THE AGGRESSIVE DOG by Emma Parsons THE COMPLETE IDIOT'S GUIDE TO POSITIVE DOG TRAINING by Pamela S. Dennison LIVING WITH KIDS AND DOGS...WITHOUT LOSING YOUR MIND by Colleen Pelar CLICKING WITH YOUR DOG - STEP-BY-STEP IN PICTURES by Peggy Tillman CALMING SIGNALS BOOK/DVD SET by Turid Rugaas ON TALKING TERMS WITH DOGS: CALMING SIGNALS by Turid Rugaas THE OTHER END OF THE LEASH Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs by Patricia McConnell SCAREDY DOG! Understanding and Rehabilitating Your Reactive Dog by Ali Brown FOR THE LOVE OF A DOG by Patricia McConnell BONES WOULD RAIN FROM THE SKY by Suzanne Clothier PLEASURABLE KINGDOM by Jonathan Balcombe CHILL OUT FIDO! - HOW TO CALM YOUR DOG Nan Arthur REACHING THE ANIMAL MIND - CLICKER TRAINING AND WHAT IT TEACHES US ABOUT ALL ANIMALS Karen Pryor BARKING - THE SOUND OF A LANGUAGE Turid Rugaas CONTROL UNLEASHED - CREATING A FOCUSED AND CONFIDENT DOG Leslie McDevitt HOW TO RIGHT A DOG GONE WRONG Pamela Dennison |
| when pigs fly,training success with impossible dogs
jane killion |
| I have several of the Jean Donaldson books, including "MINE!"; I like her writing a lot. |
Having had a golden(whom I miss VERY much) from an eight week old on I think(  ) I know the breed. They are a lot like OES, they don't get brains until around two or three. VERY, VERY high energy.
I agree having a puppy laying around is mostly unheard of. I remember when Taylor was young, he was taking a nap and dh and I tiptoed around so we wouldn't wake him up and start the puppy madness again. As he got older he calmed down...a little. |
Simon's Mom wrote: Having had a golden(whom I miss VERY much) from an eight week old on I think(
) I know the breed. They are a lot like OES, they don't get brains until around two or three. VERY, VERY high energy.I agree having a puppy laying around is mostly unheard of. I remember when Taylor was young, he was taking a nap and dh and I tiptoed around so we wouldn't wake him up and start the puppy madness again. As he got older he calmed down...a little. I think the puppy was just having a calm moment. I'm sure it was a regular, crazy puppy, but my parents saw it sitting there all nice, so that's what they commented on. Good book suggestions. I'll have to show them to my parents. |
Oh, and here's a picture of her
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Oh my gosh... she LOOKS like an angel!!! Such a pretty face and the coat looks sooooooo soft AND white  Very nice! |
| We have Lily, 1.5 yr old Golden and Lola who is just over a year. Lily is an ANGEL. She listens, she never counter surfs, she never chews on anything that is not hers. Lola, not so much. I guess it just depends on the dog. |
| i seem to remember times when my 3yr old daughter would sit on the floor and her sheepie would sit beside her still.
for a minute. |
| Steph she looks like butter would not melt in her mouth Very pretty girl, just hope your folks can come to some sort of resolution with her, bit of a worry especially as your mom is scared of her. Hopefully with a good trainer showing them how to with her it can be resolved.
If not, not being a negative nellie, the way your folks feel about her, maybe they should think of rehoming her through rescue with someone that can spend the time to re-educate her on her ways as only just turning 2 the younger the better in her situation. Sadly not all OES are the same in personalities, your parents had a laid back sluggy one, now a pocket rocket that probably needs a bit more one on one training with someone that can show skills on how to with her, even for your mom to take on that mantle so they both build confidence with each other?. If not then she really needs to go into rescue if your folks cant cope with her and also if your mom still feels scared of her. That flows onto the dog they sense these things and can make situations worse if your mom is feeling this way. |
| Sadly, I agree with Lisa. If the match is not right and your folks feel helpless to deal with her...maybe its time to re-home her. |
| Yeah, they've thought of rehoming her. I know they don't want to, and I think they'll give it a little more time before they decide anything.
My dad, though, gives her tons of love and affection and they're pretty much always together, so it's not like she's being neglected or abused or lonely or anything. (and not that my mom doesn't. She has her around her a lot too, but just doesn't 'feel the love' with her) |
| Your last post and the pictures of your parents puppy,I think explain a lot. In both pictures she has a short lead on. Is this all the time? she doesnt listen to verbal commands in the house and do they need the lead to get her to do what they want? Not good she is in control of her two legged parents
Your dad spends all his time with her and give her lots and lots of love.The puppy has learned growling at mom gets her to back off. I think the pack dynamic is skewed. Dad and puppy possible equals mom is number three.Puppy is number two and trying hard to be number one. All dogs especially the smart pushy females need to learn their place in the pack. Its always is last to the two leggeds. If your parents are committed they need to get a good trainer in their house ASAP to assess the situation. There are human,positive ways to teach the big princess her place in the pack. With a two year old dog it will take some time but is possible. Good luck |
| Steph think your mom needs to work with the dog with a trainer, will help both enormously.
Keeping fingys crossed all can be resolved. |
| I think the ideas of training are great, maybe after having sheepies for years and kids together your parents have forgotten some of the things they used to do with the sheepies to train them. Also forgotten maybe how much kids can drain the energy of a dog just from playing.
I know just from having two children when I went to have the second one I was surprised in the 18 mos how much I had forgotten. |
| LOL. Evil eyes. I'll bet she's thinking up Wile E. Coyote schemes all the time. |
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