Solution for reverse pulling/suggestions for fat dog problem
As everyone knows, Clyde is a little tubby. Our last visit to the vet found Clyde at an all time high weight of 114. He's getting older so some of it can be his metabolism changing but, to be on the safe side, we had the basic thyroid panels done. They came back negative so the vet suggested a strict diet and more exercise and we'd check back in a month to see if there are any changes in his weight. If not, we'll do the T4 thyroid panel and send it off to Michigan State to see if anything comes up there. So, we've put Clyde into let's-get-physical mode. Twice a week, Owen runs him in the yard or we go to the park. The other days, we walk. I'm pretty sure Clyde would rather die than walk. He walks so slow, he actually extends the one foot leash as far back as I'll allow it and shuffles as slowly as I think a dog can walk. Before anyone asks, no, he's not in pain unless being a lazy little piggy is painful. He loves to run so I wasn't sure why the walking was so miserable for him. I usually walk everyone at once so to have one dog lagging behind is tough. He makes the walk miserable since Bear, Owen and I would like to walk at a normal pace. I am way too lazy to do two different walks, too. Plus, it's time consuming! Anyway, Clyde's pouty act wasn't getting him out of these walks but I was concerned about the pressure from his collar on his neck. I don't want to make a walk painful for him for other reasons or pull his poor neck out accidentally (he also slows down and speeds up so he gets a little jerk sometimes). Now, I'm not a harness kind of person. I think dogs should walk on their buckle collars and if they don't already, they should be in training to get to that point. That way, if I want to use a slip lead, I'm not using it like a choke because they aren't pullers. However, I was worried about Clyde's neck so I thought a harness that clipped in the front of his chest might help better distribute the pull and make it a better experience for him. Wow, what a difference. That tubby little dummy kept up with everyone else on the walk today like he'd been doing it forever. No shuffling, no reverse pulling. He loved the harness. He lagged a little a few times but nothing like before. He actually walked with his head up and looked comfortable instead of miserable. I think he just doesn't like the pulling of the collar. He's an easy dog to put the harness on so I guess if it'll encourage exercise for him, we'll go with it. It was so nice to see him prancing along with the group instead of cursing at me under his breath as I know he does. The bad news is, despite Clyde's serious workout regimen and diet, he hasn't lost an ounce since we've started over a month ago. We went by the vet yesterday for a weigh-in and we were so disappointed since we've been so diligent in trying to help him drop some weight. It looks like our next step is to have the T4 panel done while continuing to exercise and eat less. What else can make a fat dog fat other than thyroid? He's not diabetic and is, otherwise in good health with a happy temperament. No genetic issues. His coat is pretty normal for him, maybe a tiny bit oily but he's fine and soft-coated so he never feels harsh and wooly. In his defense, I don't think he looks super fat.  |
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Just a small suggestion that may help, since Clyde likes the harness...Ive started puting a backpack on Bert when we walk, filled with water bottles for weight. It gives him a bit more of a workout from the same amount of walking, plus it gives him something to concentrate on so there is less pulling and fussing  Bert is far from overweight...he kinda has the opposite problem and is actually too thin...my vet wants me to get him up about 5 LBs! Sometimes I think its just a metabolism thing.
Id love to think that was my reason for being overweight...but I suspect "lazy" just explains that   . |
| I'm not sure what you pups food situation is... but a similar thing happened to my older dog (not an OES) Tonka. He was gaining little by little, and finally at about #130, the said ENOUGH! but the thing was, Tonka is a self feed with a regular walking exercise routine and nothing had changed that I could tell.
Come to find out that my rabbit had been stealing the dog’s food on the DL, which was making him into a bit of a hoarder. So rather that leisurely enjoying his meal, he was scarfing it all down ASAP. Since the food has been raised up from the rabbits reach, and Tonka is not hoarding, he is down to #109!!!! |
| Jill: Did you try to cut his amount of kibble by about 1/3 per meal & add 1/2 can NO SALT canned green beans as a filler? By that I mean cutting the portion by 1/3 not 1/3 cup. I swear this keeps Mariah in shape. She's pretty active for a girl going on 10 as she chases & plays with José all the time. Last time Cathy saw her she said she thinks it's the thinnest she's ever seen her. Alot of her weight is concentrated in her bone & muscle (I know you've felt her) so I try to keep any fat off her as she has enough of a job hauling her bone & muscle around. |
| Remember I brought Glacier down from 15something to 90 thru 50% no salt green beans and 50% high quality kibble. To this day she thinks green beans are extra special.
Eventually the grocery clerks quit wondering why we were buying a dozen cans of green beans a week. Funny thing, Glacier does not like fresh or frozen green beans, she only eats canned beans  |
| do the T4 if we hadn't done it the first thing, we would have never dicovered Morgan's issue. And I assume you mean he has been tested for diabetes?
I wonder what else is going on that the healter made such a difference? |
SheepieBoss wrote: Remember I brought Glacier down from 15something to 90 thru 50% no salt green beans and 50% high quality kibble. To this day she thinks green beans are extra special.
Eventually the grocery clerks quit wondering why we were buying a dozen cans of green beans a week. Funny thing, Glacier does not like fresh or frozen green beans, she only eats canned beans Main thing is the combination of NO SALT green beans & a high quality kibble & a good measuring cup . I use a mixture of the beans & ProPlan shredded blend lamb & rice. The lady I co-breed with has had luck getting a couple of her dogs that always had a hard time with their weight to lose weight just on the shredded blend. It must fill them up & last a bit longer with less calories.
Mariah doesn't care if they are canned, frozen or fresh. Just as long as she can eat them before they would eat her And yeah, the grcoery clerks did the same thing with us. I used to order them in by the case! |
ChSheepdogs wrote: SheepieBoss wrote: Remember I brought Glacier down from 15something to 90 thru 50% no salt green beans and 50% high quality kibble. To this day she thinks green beans are extra special. Eventually the grocery clerks quit wondering why we were buying a dozen cans of green beans a week. Funny thing, Glacier does not like fresh or frozen green beans, she only eats canned beans Main thing is the combination of NO SALT green beans & a high quality kibble & a good measuring cup . I use a mixture of the beans & ProPlan shredded blend lamb & rice. The lady I co-breed with has had luck getting a couple of her dogs that always had a hard time with their weight to lose weight just on the shredded blend. It must fill them up & last a bit longer with less calories. Mariah doesn't care if they are canned, frozen or fresh. Just as long as she can eat them before they would eat her And yeah, the grcoery clerks did the same thing with us. I used to order them in by the case! We measure meticulously-- with an actual measuring cup. Every dog gets a different measurement. Clyde's diet has been cut by just over 1/3. He doesn't care for the green beans in his food. He'll eat them as a snack from the can if I feed them to him but if they go by his food, he knows he's on a diet and he's not thrilled. Dietwise, there's really not much more I feel like I can do. He's already sniffing around looking for loose kibble (something he never used to do) and I'm not going to have him hungry and unhappy. Laurel, I like that backpack idea a lot. I can load him up with a little extra weight but not make him walk further. I'm going to look for one and, in the meantime, he'll have some more time to get used to the harness. Kerry, I don't think there's anything else going on with him to make him more comfortable in the harness. He's never liked a leash rubbing near his ears or face and this takes it down and lower so I think it's just plain more comfortable for him. The harness goes around his shoulders and I think it actually encourages forward motion from there as opposed to pulling around his neck. I don't think anyone likes getting pulled by the neck anywhere! And, yes, he's had a full blood workup this year and he's clean on all counts. Marilyn, I tried that ProPlan shredded blend before and it didn't agree with any of the dogs well. They're on Eagle Pack Holistic right now which is a good kibble that everyone does well on. I'm thinking about switching Clyde to weight control or senior to get some of the calories out but I'm going to wait until we have the T4 test before I starve him any more.  |
ButtersStotch wrote: Marilyn, I tried that ProPlan shredded blend before and it didn't agree with any of the dogs well. They're on Eagle Pack Holistic right now which is a good kibble that everyone does well on. I'm thinking about switching Clyde to weight control or senior to get some of the calories out but I'm going to wait until we have the T4 test before I starve him any more.
Switching Clyde to weight control or senior blend won't necessarily starve him. The make-up is different. Lower fat & calorie count but the same volume generally. When Royal Canin was still making Sensible Choice I had Melody & Isaac on the "Light" formula (lamb & rice) & they maintained their weight quite well as they aged. Then when it got hard to get & the stores around here were having to special order it for me I switched everyone to ProPlan as I was having to special order the reg. formula in Sensible Choice of Lamb & Rice for José & Mariah at the time too. I'd gladly change Mariah to the weight control formula of ProPlan but it only comes in a chicken formula which is no good for my dogs. And Isaac.....he has been doing so well on Sensitive Skin & Stomach that I won't change him at his age. I just cut his amount back a bit & try to exercise him more. He's still pretty active for an oldster. So maybe switching Clyde to your brand's formula of the low cal wouldn't be starving him necessarily. |
ChSheepdogs wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Marilyn, I tried that ProPlan shredded blend before and it didn't agree with any of the dogs well. They're on Eagle Pack Holistic right now which is a good kibble that everyone does well on. I'm thinking about switching Clyde to weight control or senior to get some of the calories out but I'm going to wait until we have the T4 test before I starve him any more. Switching Clyde to weight control or senior blend won't necessarily starve him. The make-up is different. Lower fat & calorie count but the same volume generally. When Royal Canin was still making Sensible Choice I had Melody & Isaac on the "Light" formula (lamb & rice) & they maintained their weight quite well as they aged. Then when it got hard to get & the stores around here were having to special order it for me I switched everyone to ProPlan as I was having to special order the reg. formula in Sensible Choice of Lamb & Rice for José & Mariah at the time too. I'd gladly change Mariah to the weight control formula of ProPlan but it only comes in a chicken formula which is no good for my dogs. And Isaac.....he has been doing so well on Sensitive Skin & Stomach that I won't change him at his age. I just cut his amount back a bit & try to exercise him more. He's still pretty active for an oldster. So maybe switching Clyde to your brand's formula of the low cal wouldn't be starving him necessarily. Yeah, I know. I guess I was being a little facetious. It's just frustrating since we felt so positive about al the things we were doing to help him lose weight. The worst part is, we were commenting, "Look, you're starting to see the tuck more, he's losing weight." I guess we were fooling ourselves. I told James that Clyde probably lost at least 10 pounds but he gained it all back in hard body, beefcake muscle. |
| Hmm, poor Tubby Clyde.
Your leash walks sound like ours with Barney. We have a retractable leash and he will just walk slower and slower until he's at the end of the retractable leash, like 10 feet behind us, walking with his head down and as slow as possible. We're so embarassed--we're sure the neighbors think we beat him or something. That's interesting about the harness. We might have to try one and see what happens. We tried the gentle leader for a while but Barney would just bat at it the whole time we were walking and would REALLY slow us down. Barney lost about 10 pounds with a weight control food and more exercise. What is Clyde's 'ideal' weight? How much does the vet want him to lose? |
ButtersStotch wrote: Yeah, I know. I guess I was being a little facetious. It's just frustrating since we felt so positive about al the things we were doing to help him lose weight. The worst part is, we were commenting, "Look, you're starting to see the tuck more, he's losing weight." I guess we were fooling ourselves. I told James that Clyde probably lost at least 10 pounds but he gained it all back in hard body, beefcake muscle. There probably is a bit of truth in that. I weigh Chewie at least weekly - most often 2 times a week. We have a walk on scale at the Paw and he loves it. He runs in the lobby, behind the front desk to check for treats, then right onto the scale. 
When he was finishing showing he weighed about 70 pounds, give or take a couple pounds either way. Then we started working hard again, and I could feel (not see with all the hair) the difference. He felt bonier and I would have swore he was dropping weight. But he weighed exactly the same as before. Now he is down to 65, and feels to most people like I starve my dog. But he is in fabulous shape. I had the PT/rehab person check him out 2 weeks ago and she literally was gushing with enthusiasm about his condition! It made me laugh, she wanted to use him as a demo dog to show people what ideal condition should feel like  . It is shocking to most people, as they see the fluffy dog, not knowing what condition is lurking under all that hair.  Even our agility instructor went over him last class and smiled. |
| I'd like to see him back around the 100 mark. 95 would be better. The vet is usually a little more liberal with the numbers but I also think she's that way so it doesn't seem like such a daunting task to lose a lot of weight at once. I'm not so focused on the number either but, as he ages, I want him to have less pressure on his joints. If it's muscle weight, that's fine since it's more supportive. Overall, he is a proportionally big dog. He can definitely weigh more than a lot of OES. Owen will always be "the little one" next to him and Owen isn't tiny either. To put Clyde's size in perspective to Owen: Clyde is an Owen and 1/2! |
| Your vet sounds nice. Mine always has super low weights he wants Barney to be (like go from 99 to 75). It'd be nicer to have one say oh, just lose a few here or there!
My vet always wants my cats to lose weight too... |
| my fatty boy duffy is going through this now i tryed the green beans he are around them .. dreamer is twice as tall and they weigh the same and eat the same .. i too need to get him test if this diet doesn't work |
barney1 wrote: Your vet sounds nice. Mine always has super low weights he wants Barney to be (like go from 99 to 75). It'd be nicer to have one say oh, just lose a few here or there!
My vet always wants my cats to lose weight too... She is. I really like her. It's a lesbian couple (vet and vet tech) and an all woman staff and they have the place painted really cute with great artwork. It's more like a coffeehouse. She also looks just like my husband so that's probably why I like her so much! |
ButtersStotch wrote: barney1 wrote: Your vet sounds nice. Mine always has super low weights he wants Barney to be (like go from 99 to 75). It'd be nicer to have one say oh, just lose a few here or there! My vet always wants my cats to lose weight too... She is. I really like her. It's a lesbian couple (vet and vet tech) and an all woman staff and they have the place painted really cute with great artwork. It's more like a coffeehouse. She also looks just like my husband so that's probably why I like her so much! That is hilarious. How does James feel about that comparison?...I think it's a compliment! |
| being overweight alone does not indicate a thyroid condition, in fact I am not sure it was any of the symptons listed. You should however test (and the full test) if you see a combination of symptoms which include, less energy than most dogs of the breed, a tendancy to want to be in the sun or warmth (not the case with my boy), temperment issues and/or hair loss. In my case it was enough knowing he had one fifth the energy of my girl that spurred me on - despite my vet telling me it was unlikely, that he was too young etc etc. |
ButtersStotch wrote: barney1 wrote: Your vet sounds nice. Mine always has super low weights he wants Barney to be (like go from 99 to 75). It'd be nicer to have one say oh, just lose a few here or there! My vet always wants my cats to lose weight too... She is. I really like her. It's a lesbian couple (vet and vet tech) and an all woman staff and they have the place painted really cute with great artwork. It's more like a coffeehouse. She also looks just like my husband so that's probably why I like her so much! Should James at all be worried? Like you all of a sudden started 'having' to go to the vet a lot? That's so funny she looks like James! |
| My vet is very good and very supportive. She always discusses all possibilities, tells me her perspective and then asks me what I think is best for us, too. I seriously couldn't ask for a better vet. We've gone over all the thyroid symptoms and I've done plenty of research. It was something I brought up to her because he does have half of the symptoms (but not hair loss and temperament, which I said in the first post). In this post, I was actually more interested in what other possibilities of diseases or disorders that may cause weight gain. It could very well be metabolic. I think if you look at any given set of symptoms you can pigeonhole it into a disease if you try hard enough...
Quote: That is hilarious. How does James feel about that comparison?...I think it's a compliment!
James laughs and even agrees a little. They even have the same eyeglass frames, which I think adds to the lookalikeness even more. She could easily be his sister! |
| Your lucky Jill...My vet is wonderful in terms of being though and up-to-date, but is not exactly known for his "bedside manner" My mother (who goes to him also) calls him "the Dog Nazi", and Scott calls him "Dr. House" he even uses House's catch phrase "everybody lies" when scolding us over dog weight or teeth brushing! |
ravenmoonart wrote: Your lucky Jill...My vet is wonderful in terms of being though and up-to-date, but is not exactly known for his "bedside manner"
My mother (who goes to him also) calls him "the Dog Nazi", and Scott calls him "Dr. House" he even uses House's catch phrase "everybody lies" when scolding us over dog weight or teeth brushing! The idea of a "House" vet is very funny to me, though. |
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