Wobblers Disease?
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| Heard of it and seems to be more common in great danes. OES have been listed too with this as well.
Info Link for your friend. http://www.chetbacon.com/wobblers.htm |
| no first hand experience, but I do believe Spondololithesis has been in a few OES lines. I am sure someone on here has had some experience with it. |
| a few (???) years back we came to the conclusion (some breeders getting together) that Wobblers and Cerebellar Abiotrophy were pretty much the same thing.
Now, that has been some time ago but I haven't heard anything different. |
Ali wrote: a few (???) years back we came to the conclusion (some breeders getting together) that Wobblers and Cerebellar Abiotrophy were pretty much the same thing.
Now, that has been some time ago but I haven't heard anything different. Not the same thing at all. Now, they may present somewhat similarly (there are distinct clinical differences, however) and we have most likely had CA affected dogs who were cursorarily misdiagnosed as having Wobblers (I can think of one off the top of my head). But while Wobblers is a narrowing/malformation of the cervical vertebra which puts pressure on the spinal cord that results in neurological symptoms, CA has no direct orthopedic involvement, rather the progressive neuroligical symptoms are directly related to the progressive death of Purkinje cells in the cerebellum which, in turn, controls balance. Or is supposed to, at any rate, when functioning correctly. Kristine |
kerry wrote: no first hand experience, but I do believe Spondololithesis has been in a few OES lines. I am sure someone on here has had some experience with it.
RED FLAG for me....are you saying that Spondolothis can lead to Wobblers???? Do I need to check this out with Pearl? (going over the deep end again..sorry...but...well, you know....) |
sheepieshake wrote: kerry wrote: no first hand experience, but I do believe Spondololithesis has been in a few OES lines. I am sure someone on here has had some experience with it. RED FLAG for me....are you saying that Spondolothis can lead to Wobblers???? Do I need to check this out with Pearl? (going over the deep end again..sorry...but...well, you know....) Breathe deeply, Val 
Spondololithesis = Wobblers. To the best of my knowledge it is not common in OES. If you look at the latest breed health survey, only two dogs (bitches, actually, but don't jump off the deep end because she's female either  - that's too small a sample to suggest that it's sex linked) were reported as having been diagnosed with Wobblers. That's a 0.11% frequency rate in that sample over a ten year period. So not cause for panic.
Are you perhaps thinking of spondylosis? A form of spinal arthritis? That's to a large extent a wear and tear condition that may very well have a genetic predispostion since it can be found in higher rates and also often at younger ages in some breeds, perhaps due to a structural predisposition. Boxers tend to be the poster breed for this condition, though it's far from uncommon in our breed and most if not all of our geriatric dogs would probably show signs of some type of spinal arthritis if x-rayed which I'm guessing is what x-rays showed with Pearl? Belle has it. She'll be 12 in ten days and is still herding. Breathing any better yet?
Kristine |
Quote: Are you perhaps thinking of spondylosis? A form of spinal arthritis?
YES....  sorry...for my newbieness and dumbness......   |
sheepieshake wrote: Quote: Are you perhaps thinking of spondylosis? A form of spinal arthritis? YES.... sorry...for my newbieness and dumbness...... No. Not at all. I had to look up the term when Kerry used it wondering if she had it confused it with spondylosis and not knowing Wobblers had a different name. Live and learn
Kristine |
| I have not dealt personally with it, but I know it is a major health concern w/ doberman breeders I know.
Here is another link: http://www.my-doberman.com/wobblers-disease.html Good luck to your friend's dog. |
| Thanks, guys. Yeah, she mentioned that Dobermans and Danes were two of the most likely to be afflicted with something like this.
Do you know, as breeders, is this something you would give a refund for? She's going to ask her breeder and I was just curious if she'll most likely get it. Poor dog--he's only 14 months old and is So sweet and cute. I don't know if it's the right term, but I call him blue merle. He's grey and blue and splotchy and I love the combination of colors. Funny story. I was with Barney at the vet several months ago and heard this one dog howling back in the back. The vet was like, oh, that's just a Dane puppy that ate a sock and had to be in surgery and is in recovery...and I said, Is it Hero? And the vet looked at me like I was nuts and said yes.... |
| most health refunds only require the breeder to replace the dog. Most that have bought dogs with health problems end up keeping the initial dog and therefore the health gurantee is pretty much useless. |
As for the guarantee - I agree with what Kerry (#1) said. Replacement is the usual, and for most of us we have a hard time giving back the pup we fell in love with. Although I have a Samoyed friend who ended up doing that this past year. She got a pup, from a good breeder, well known in the Sammy world, and it had severe HD. She has another male, older who she specials. She really is getting into carting and sledding, as well as showing and was SO excited. She would have kept this pup, but she has a 2 dog limit where she lives  - so had a hard choice to make. After a lot of thinking and all, she ended up giving the pup back and got her money back (the breeder didn't have another litter planned). She now has a new puppy and is starting all over in her training.
As far as Hero's color - that would be a Harlequin. Chewie's buddy Bogart is a harlequin dane  . They are very striking. |
| Tell them to consult with the breeder of him and see what sort of arrangements they can come too. Now he has the diagnosis of wobblers then they really do need to talk with the breeder
Some only replace, some do refund, some also help compensate for treatment, they can only ask the breeder and find out what the arrangement is with their Health Guarantee on this pup. They will never know unless they ask especially with a confirmed diagnosis. Tell them also to send copies of the vet report confirming wobblers to the breeder of him and take it from there ... |
lisaoes wrote: Tell them to consult with the breeder of him and see what sort of arrangements they can come too. Now he has the diagnosis of wobblers then they really do need to talk with the breeder
Some only replace, some do refund, some also help compensate for treatment, they can only ask the breeder and find out what the arrangement is with their Health Guarantee on this pup. They will never know unless they ask especially with a confirmed diagnosis. Tell them also to send copies of the vet report confirming wobblers to the breeder of him and take it from there ... Definitely. If she provides documentation of the issue, the breeder can review it and, hopefully, come to an amicable agreement. If it's just her word, not only does it not help the breeder, there's really no proof that a problem actually exists other than her word. Crackpots make things up all the time. |
ButtersStotch wrote: Crackpots make things up all the time. Oh absolutely - but then some breeders disappear from the face of the earth the minute one, two three or ten puppy buyers try to contact them with concerns raised by their vets. |
kerry wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Crackpots make things up all the time. Oh absolutely - but then some breeders disappear from the face of the earth the minute one, two three or ten puppy buyers try to contact them with concerns raised by their vets. Did this breeder have other complaints, too? I'm sorry, I didn't see that in Steph's post. Either way, the best thing to do is make sure that your friend contacts all the other people that have those complaints and documents from their vets, too. I only meant that there are always people who may have issues and unscrupulously try to get refunds or compensation so it's important to provide proof so the breeder sees that everyone is having the same issue. If your friend's breeder has multiple complaints against her, then I might be concerned that she may not have much recourse. I just hope the dog will be okay. Totally off topic, but Great Dane related, my sister's poor 6 year old Great Dane almost died last week with the onset of hemorrhagic gastroenteritis. She was fine and then overnight, started hemorrhaging (my sister's poor house, too). She went into shock and spent two days at the emergency vet. She pulled through, thank goodness. It seems like there's such limited time with Great Danes and to have them have other stuff wrong to make that even shorter is terrible. |
ButtersStotch wrote: kerry wrote: ButtersStotch wrote: Crackpots make things up all the time. Oh absolutely - but then some breeders disappear from the face of the earth the minute one, two three or ten puppy buyers try to contact them with concerns raised by their vets. Did this breeder have other complaints, too? I'm sorry, I didn't see that in Steph's post. Either way, the best thing to do is make sure that your friend contacts all the other people that have those complaints and documents from their vets, too. I only meant that there are always people who may have issues and unscrupulously try to get refunds or compensation so it's important to provide proof so the breeder sees that everyone is having the same issue. If your friend's breeder has multiple complaints against her, then I might be concerned that she may not have much recourse. Sorry I was still on the general topic of health guarantees and what they do or don't mean. I just hope the dog will be okay. Totally off topic, but Great Dane related, my sister's poor 6 year old Great Dane almost died last week with the onset of hemorrhagic gastroenteritis. She was fine and then overnight, started hemorrhaging (my sister's poor house, too). She went into shock and spent two days at the emergency vet. She pulled through, thank goodness. It seems like there's such limited time with Great Danes and to have them have other stuff wrong to make that even shorter is terrible. Oh I am so sorry for your sister and her Dane - I have always thought they were such beautiful noble dogs, but like you said too short of a life. |
Kerry you cant clump all breeders health guarantees into one basket, each breeder and their guarantees on their pups is ever so different. 
Some do help when a problem arises, not all ditch responsibility when it comes to a health crisis on something they have bred. You really are implying in general breeders dont honour anything. Best advice for these people dealing with this is to firstly backup the confirmation of the wobblers with "documentation", copies of the ACTUAL vet report to go back to the breeder and then a full discussion between those two parties on how they proceed. No one elses business as they sort through whats happen with their dane pup. |
lisaoes wrote: Kerry you cant clump all breeders health guarantees into one basket, each breeder and their guarantees on their pups is ever so different.
Some do help when a problem arises, not all ditch responsibility when it comes to a health crisis on something they have bred. You really are implying in general breeders dont honour anything. Wasn't my intention - and I don't see where I said that anymore than Jill was saying everyone who has a health issue with their dog is a crackpot. |
| No, of course not everyone who has a health issue is a crackpot. I'm sorry if that's the way it came off but there are a lot of people who do try to make things up to get money. My sister's mother-in-law is trying to pull some crap with the breeder of her dachshund because the dog fell off the couch and hurt its back and she's trying to tell the breeder that the dog has some kind of disc disease. It doesn't-- it fell off the couch! She shouldn't be trying to bleed money from this person and it infuriates my sister and me. When we asked her if the vet diagnosed the dog with the disc thing she was like, "Well, he said it might be that." Might is a far cry from proof if she thinks she's getting any sort of compensation. The joke's on her though since the MIL wants to breed that dog and if it was really that disease, that dog's out of the breeding pool. |
kerry wrote: most health refunds only require the breeder to replace the dog. Most that have bought dogs with health problems end up keeping the initial dog and therefore the health gurantee is pretty much useless.
I just took that all breeders dont honour anything from your post here, it looked to me you were clumping any health guarantee as this is what happens, only replacement of a pup with everyone if some sort of health crisis arises, especially if the person chooses to keep the pup they have bonded with that they are left to their own devices to deal with it and the breeder wipes them with no help what so ever. Some might but others do help and it is important that documentation is supplied to back up any health crisis to the breeder before any thing can be sorted as to what the next step is. Unfortunately some people do lie so a written vet report is adviseable to proceed with the breeder with any health issue that have arised. Wish them the best steph, so sad to read how it affects such young danes, hopefully there is a light at the end of the tunnel for their boy.  |
| So my friend's dane had his first acupuncture treatment for his Wobblers today. She said he did well. She showed me a pictures and the look on his face was like, seriously? You're making me do this? It was so skeptical! But, they go back every 2 weeks for a few weeks and then I think it's once a month for maintenance. We'll see if it helps. |
barney1 wrote: So my friend's dane had his first acupuncture treatment for his Wobblers today. She said he did well. She showed me a pictures and the look on his face was like, seriously? You're making me do this? It was so skeptical! But, they go back every 2 weeks for a few weeks and then I think it's once a month for maintenance. We'll see if it helps.
I wonder if that laser therapy would be good for it, too? http://www.lasertherapyfordogs.com/ |
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