Tell me what you think
Of course he didn't hear me because he's gone deaf again. He ran around like a crazy dog. When he ran straight for the people and dogs I switched directions and went to the back of the room. And stayed in that area. He loved the A-frame, you could tell because he did it over and over...and over again. So anyway, here's my thought: When he starts to run around again, call him back to the start, and start again. He has a pretty reasonable re-call(when he can hear) and if he has to start all over again, do you think it will get through to him that he needs to do what I say...and still have fun. I can't let him keep doing this or he will think its ok. Randy did a video today and if I could figure out how to post it...well you would see my crazy dog. |
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Pam, he mostly does his own thing when he isn't sure what you want. You're handling him tentatively, methinks, because you don't quite trust him. (Been there, done that  ) But as the two of you start to work together more, the obstacle cherry picking will dissappear.
You may not be able to tell, but there was definite improvement from the last run thru, with hiim already paying more attention to you and coming back more quickly when he strayed. The same is true of Randy and Garfunkel too, in spades! I love the wonderful attitude he's developed. Simon's always had it. Don't squander it. Nothing sadder than dragging a slow, reluctant dog around the ring. I'd rather risk some off courses as I work on my handling to ensure they don't happen. It takes time. Super fun hanging out with you guys today! Will look to see where the next run-thru is. Oh, and my girls looked better than they are at because it's where we train  Though Sue, who hadn't seen Mace in a while, was really pleased with her. That felt good.
One step at a time. We're all getting there. Kristine |
| no specific advice - but I trained trained trained before we did run thrus or trials and why? Because Marley would wander off and sniff or self satisfy, because I really didn't have sufficient handling skills. Lots of private lessons helped. Now my instructor just says Marley is being way too nice to me becasue she compensates for my poor handling. |
| Great advice, Kerry.
Simon's at a point where he needs to get out to other places. He's blase about where he trains and solid there, with exception of weaves, which they're still working on, but it's WAAAAY too exciting out in the big wide world. He's a pretty fast, high drive dog. She has her hands full.
Garfunkel isn't quite there yet since he started training later, but he gets the advantage of getting that part of his training out of the way early by virtue of tagging along with Simon. Having fostered him, I have to say I am amazed by how far he's come, from a dog who spent the first three years of his life primarily in a garage with no socialization who was overstimulated by a leaf dropping to a dog who clearly ENJOYS what he's doing. Some times just a little TOO MUCH. It's an incredible transformation. 
Kristine |
| Let's see if this works this time - earlier my laptop decided it had to reboot when I was in the middle of answering.
One of the things I think I that really helps with agility is all the obedience training we do. I know it didn't make sense to me at first either. Actually in our private lessons I do a 15 minute obedience training lesson before we even start agility. And obedience is so much easier to do around distractions ;0 we go to th eshopping center and work around other people and to dog events and work around other dogs. How does this help our agility performance? At least with Marley the result is nothing else matters when we are in the ring. One other thing we do is play with some attention games. Basically I run around in the yard like a crazy person - first left, then right then back etc and Marley "catches me" when she does she gets a treat or more likely a little celebration. (I do it with Morgan too but we haven't trialed yet so I don't know if it really proofs him or not  )
Anything you can do to build team work helps, and having high expectations don't hurt either. |
Mad Dog wrote: Oh, and my girls looked better than they are at because it's where we train Though Sue, who hadn't seen Mace in a while, was really pleased with her. That felt good. Kristine I did notice when she said that and how you beamed. That must have really made you PROUD!!! |
Sue isn't compelled to say things just to hear herself speak  , so, yes, I took it as a good sign that I'm on the right track with Mace. It felt really good.
I've got my livingroom crammed with obstacles and though it isn't ideal, it gives me the opportunity to work on certain things. I'm working the basics with Dazz & Che & Liz. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Che is positively surprising me. Being male he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but unlike some (ahem, bitches ) he lives to please, so catches on to some things so quickly it's scary. Liz thinks doing a down on the table is an insult to dogdom everywhere (or something). And Dazz can't keep her feet on the ground long enough to even BEGIN to grasp the beginning steps of the one rear toe on contact method. BUT she's catching on to weaving like nobody's business. Reminds me of Mad.
I also have a (short) tunnel set up so I can do a tiny bit of sequencing. Helps me work weave entrances and so on. The last couple of nights when I've done weave -> tunnel Dazz screech barks through the tunnel. I have NEVER had a dog who barked on course before. I really hate listening to dogs who do. Yet, I'm not about to correct her for her enthusiasm, so I'm kind of hoping this too shall pass, though that is rarely the way it goes with yapping. Ouch! 
Where are we going for the next run-thru? Kristine |
Tiggy only barks when other dogs run through the tunnel, but she really makes up for her silent tunnel efforts then.  |
Mim wrote: Tiggy only barks when other dogs run through the tunnel, but she really makes up for her silent tunnel efforts then.
Oh, Dazz will bark when I run my other dogs as well. That I CAN fix, and do. But again tonight she barked as she exited the tunnel.
Tonight at herding Mace got to watch the dashing Orlando run up to check a gate just to discover that his prayers were answered and it magically swung open, and the 20-30 stock on the other side were his for the taking so to speak. He flew into the little pen, most of the stock escaped into the bigger arena, bar one that he had cut off. As that one turned to follow its flock his breeder, with wonderful timing I might add, managed to foil his plans to follow. It was really well executed and his stock party was shortlived, but in the mean time Mace almost lost it watching. I hope she doesn't think she'll be so lucky next week
By the time Chris had finished working Orlando, he walked out of the arena like Mr Big Stuff and promptly lifted his leg as high as he could on the nearest snow bank. I think the sheepdog ladies were suitably impressed.
Kristine |
| ^^^^^^^^
LOLOLOL |
Mad Dog wrote: Oh, Dazz will bark when I run my other dogs as well. That I CAN fix, and do. Kristine
How??? I've resorted to removing Tiggy to where she cant see the tunnel anymore. She gets in a frenzy and jumps and barks and tries to run and chase. No amount of "sit" or "leave it" works. She's deaf and mad (I mean mental, no offence intended )! |
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None taken 
Your instincts are good. Removing her, that is. The situation I'm describing (in agility) is a little different. I mainly get barking when I'm running another dog. For that purpose I set up an accomplice who is monitoring the crated yapper wannabe. They step in and shush the dog if the dog starts to vocalize, but also drop unexpected cookies in when the dog is being quiet. The added benefit (some dogs may not care) is that my dogs tend to be "shocked" when someone they don't know verbally corrects them. I try to use different people so they don't know who the spy is At a trial or a run thru or what have you, there are always tons of people and I want them seriously thinking that anyone could tell them to behave at any time, oh, horrors!
It took maybe two sessions with Mace. That approach only works for a pretty stable dog who, in Mace's case, even though she's pretty soft (which is why she cares when someone tells her to knock something off) takes things in stride. I'm sure Dazz will be much more challenging because there is a strong element of anxiety underlying everything she does, and that's not so easily controllable. Especially since she has separation anxiety. You don't punish anxiety, because that simply begets more anxiety. And since she's already fearful of strangers, I can't recruit strangers to help out or I risk feeding into a fear I'm trying to extinguish, which is counter productive. She has a handful of people she trusts, and a slowly expanding circle of same, so I'm better off asking for their help, even though she really isn't there yet. And in her case I'm better off crating her when I'm not actively working another dog under some an instructor's supervision or whatever, but rather I stay close with the dog I'm "working" and I step in and shush her. If she can't take a hint I take her out and put her back in the van, which is a form of punishment. especially in her case since she's only happy when she can at least see me. But I don't want her practicing bad, yappy behavior either, so it's baby steps for probably a while. In your situation, where you're already in control of the yapper , well, sort of, and she simply gets overstimulated, I would move Tigger as far away from the action as need be till she settled down and could pay attention to you. This is hard to practice in a class setting because then you miss learning from watching the others, plus every time it's your turn, you may have to hike back three soccer field lenghts to rejoin the class which eats up class time. In an indoor class I once had an instructor simply send the similarly loud and easily overstimulated dog out the door. And then ask them in when it was their turn. This doesn't allow you to actively work on the problem, since the dog was stimulated by movement and that stimulus was completely removed. But it also didn't set the dog up to practice inappropriate behavior. Then she gradually brought them back in to work at the far end of the building.
I think the person I'm thinking of spent an entire 8 week session pretty much never doing agility but simply working on staying far enough away that the dog could still focus on her, and then gradually moving closer. How to put this? This sucks! I think I would have asked to "audit" another agility class where my entire goal was to work only on this issue. I'd still do class, I'd just tuck the dog in a a completely blanketed crate when others were running so she couldn't see anything that would set her off. Mind you, that's from watching others work through the issue, I haven't dealt with it myself, so take it for what it's worth . Mad used to get excited watching border collies run. But she didn't vocalize. She's just get so wound up that by the time it was her turn to run she was ready to jump out of her own skin. But it was just slightly on this side of controllable, so I lived with it.
Kristine |
| Kristine, thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts!
Its good to hear I'm on the right track. I have just been considering asking our trainer if I can bring my soft crate (just need to blanket the front) to class and set it up and stay with Tiggy to watch the beginners class that is pretty much straight after advanced obedience. They often play games that involve the tunnel as beginner proofing and there's always a dog or two who decides to take off from a stay on a long lead. 
We have spent a few classes sitting way across the soccer field and coming back to have our turn in the tunnel at the end. It does suck, I hate missing out on stuff, so sometimes I think its more punishment for me  and just a little rest for Tiggy. (time to recharge the batteries) But it does calm her down if we go far enough away.
I will try crating her. I'm not 100% sure it will help with the tunnel as I get the feeling that even the pitter patter sound of feet in the tunnel gets her going but it will be interesting to find out if I'm right there. Anyone know of any good doggy ear muffs.
I remember reading about movement reactivity in the past and thinking "mmm, interesting". Experiencing it is a whole different story! |
| I used to have this with Miss Marley - and to a greater degree Morgan (oy how that boy wants in on the fun when others play)
I know how counterintuitive it sounds because Marley is a very soft dog - but the sushing and cookies from heaven only made it worse. In her case working with the correction cured it within two sessions. She never barks at another dog running anymore and will only on occassion start to get into the stalking mode when she does that a verbal reminder alone works now ("not your concern" is our cue )
I can feel your pain - I used to dread down time at class - now its really relaxing and I can get a lot more out of it. Of course sometimes to break it up I will teach her a trick - it's how she learned High Five - not one of my brightest moves
Morgan on the other hand - he's gotten better, but he goes for such long stretches without classes that there is always some back sliding. I find putting him in a down stay - so he is working - and leaving him alone works best. But he does have a huge work ethic. |
| the differences and responses of our dogs to stimuli is pretty amazing.
Chewie doesn't wind up to excitement, unless it is REALLY exciting. Then he will feed off of it. He has learned who the exciting dogs are in agility class....lol However if there is negative stuff going on, it affects him more easily  So I have to be proactive about that.
Our 1st OES Ollie was easily excited (more "normal" ). At herding he had to be crated in the car, as he worked himself to craziness watching and hearing other dogs working sheep. If we were at home and having classes, I kept him in the house until it was his turn. |
| Tiggy is getting the reputation of Jekyll and Hyde.
She will wait in a sit stay for ages. Even with me hiding where she cant see me she just sits there watching where she last saw me disappear, looking all patient and angelic until................another dog runs and then she's off like a rocket. So on days where there's no dogs who take off she's perfect. I pick my days for long stays off lead now depending on who else is at class.
Its kind of funny with owners who come to class once in a while. They think they're talking about 2 different sheepies. One will be saying oh yeah the really good dog and the other will be going no the one that chases and barks. |
| So basically she's bi-polar, Mim?
She'd fit right in with Sybil who is ADD, and Dazz who is OCD and...?
How come it's the crazies that do agility? Hm? 
Kristine |
| Miss Marley resents that (looking for the angelic sheepdog icon...) |
kerry wrote: Miss Marley resents that
(looking for the angelic sheepdog icon...)Ron! I think we need a spell checker function here! I'm pretty sure Kerry meant to write "Miss Marley represents that", but far be it from me to pick on other people's spelling/typing abilities... 
Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: kerry wrote: Miss Marley resents that (looking for the angelic sheepdog icon...)Ron! I think we need a spell checker function here! I'm pretty sure Kerry meant to write "Miss Marley represents that", but far be it from me to pick on other people's spelling/typing abilities... Kristine
undoubtably true, because we all know that while Kerry can spell, she doesn't type worth a darn......  |
| Yes or maybe DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder, otherwise known as split personality.
Speaking of which there was a quite famous book about someone with split personaliy. What was her name ............ ah yes Sybil. |
| oh very funny - and to think for once I did check my spelling |
kerry wrote: oh very funny - and to thing for once I did check my spelling
^^^^^^^ LOL - help, I'm dying here!! ^^^^^^^^ My boss must think I've lost it...again |
| Happy to brighten your work day |
kerry wrote: Happy to brighten your work day
Thanks - it really (sadly) did. Hope you are having a fine weekend |
| I tried a spell checker function on here once, but it didn't work well at all. I suggest the Google Toolbar for IE users. FireFox has one built in. |
Ron wrote: I tried a spell checker function on here once, but it didn't work well at all. I suggest the Google Toolbar for IE users. FireFox has one built in.
Oh, that's OK, Ron. I just invoked your name to give Kerry a hard time
Kristine |
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