I'm dreading Ringcraft (show training)
The problem is, I hate it 
Ru is so, so naughty. He's by far the naughtiest dog there. He just wants to play with all the other dogs. When we are queueing at the side and the dog being 'shown' runs past, he barks at them & tries to chase them. I can't even keep him on a show lead, he has to wear a Halti so I can control him. Every week there is a different 'judge' and there is no teaching as such, they kind of expect you to know what to do. Each teacher has a different theory on how to train Ru. One says give him treats when he barks to shut him up, another says don't treat him. One says to try to walk him up & down in the queue when he tries to play with the other dogs, but with dogs either side of him it's impossible. One teacher sends me into the storage cupboard when he barks to get him away from the other dogs. I spend most of the evening in there 
I cycle with him for 2 hours before we go to try & make him tired but it makes no difference. I can't take him to any shows like this. I've not made any friends there & nobody wants to talk to me. I end up sweaty and very very VERY stressed. I freakin HATE it. BUT I want to show Ru 
My stomach has been in knots all day & I'm crying now just thinking about going. What do I do? I really, really, want to show him but I've no idea how to train him |
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| Just going to handling run-thrus is going to get you nowhere. Been there, done that. My very 1st show bitch was a very dominant girl & acted much the same way, although she never chased the other dogs as they went by. But she was quite vocal & when it was our turn she stood good for the "judge" but she hauled me around the ring like I was on water skis! Here's what I did. First off I bought a pinch (or prong) collar. I had the instructors show me how to fit it properly & how to use it properly & more importantly WHEN to use it. Can't use it in the show ring of course so it was merely a training tool to get thru to my girl's brain that she had to behave or she would end up "pinching" herself. The 2nd part was more extensive & I had to have a lot more patience. She & I went thru 1 solid year, 52 weeks, of basic competitive obedience training. At first I used the pinch collar & then graduated to a regular diamond cut show choke. The idea was for my girl to understand that I was in charge, not her & she had expected behaviors. I might add we used the praise & reward method. A year later I started showing her in conformation & people couldn't get over the change in her. I was a total novice at conformation. Had never handled or shown a dog in conformation before. Only went to handling class with her. I finished her 15 months later & would have done so 4 months earlier had the shows I entered drawn any points...I chased the last point for 3 months! I went on later to put a CD in obedience on her & I have to say she was the smartest of all my OES. She was a very good dog, she just needed her thoughts & energies channeled in the coreect direction. Once she knew what was expected of her it was amazing to see how fast she learned things. |
| It's hard and probably with Ru also is he has a very strong chase sense in him (Herding) that is anything whizzing past is tempting & excites him.
You also have to learn to relax and not stress, going to classes and dreading it because of what Ru is doing he is picking up on the nerves, aniexty etc from you also. So relax, look at it as fun and hopefully ru will settle more. For starters makes it harder with different instructors each week, is there like private tuition with a regular instructor you can go too? Till you sort out his excited behaviour? At the normal classes I would not worry about the ring craft part at the moment, I think just going there with Ru and watching from outside the ring as the dogs go through there paces and working on distracting him so he ends up just standing or sitting there watching without the bark fest is probably a first step for him. After a while and he is not noticing the Other dogs zooming past him, then time to enter the ring for showcraft part of the training. Even take a table and pop him up on that near the ring and work on distraction firstly. Step by step till he relaxes more and so do you 
Another thing is if you have doggie friends near by, get a a few together down a park and you stack him etc and let all your friends walk and even trot past ru with their dogs so you can work on this issue without a whole class watching and critizing his excited behaviour, you can do this as extra with friends at a local park. The distractions there will be good as he learns to settle more and you learn more confidence in settling him as he adjusts to dogs zipping past him are not a chase or play thing while in training for the showring. Same with getting someone there at the park to run around with their dog like in the ring with Ru behind and you both moving like you are in the ring and working on controll there with Ru not trying to chase the dog in front. Little things like that makes a difference, that what's you have to as they say educate him in that not appropriate to bark like crazy or chase and always calm when doing so, if your stressed or anxious ru will be too. So a park outside of classes is a good place to practice as well. He is also at that bratty teenage stage where going back to basics and starting again may be needed   |
| Just another thing when you talk about show lead is that just a soft all in one?
If so then ditch that, he is a strong excited boy and for more controll over him he needs a chain and lead, snake chain, jewellers chain 
they do not cut neck coat either and you have more controll with him then. Size has to be tried, just big enough to fit over his head and not too long for more controll. Worn not around the throat but higher up on the neck just under the ears for more controll. If you dont have one then advise you get one with a thin short lead and only use it when show training or in the showring, not for just normal everyday stuff like walks etc. This way he also learns that when that particular one is on I am being asked to behave and am in training. Also saves your arms being ripped out of your sockets if he decides to lunge or chase as you have better controll over them working on a loose lead and with a check when mis-behaving or trying to run ahead of you. I always use these only at shows.
Be confident you will get there with Ru. |
| ^ Also on the subject of leads... make sure it's on the right way, like the letter P and over the head-- it helps a lot. That's not being sarcastic, I put them on backwards most of the time the first few months of learning just because I didn't pay attention that it was one way or the other. It got to the point where the instructor would look at us move and just yell "Fix his neck!" until I started putting that thing on the right way. |
| Hi Cassie, if we meet at Crufts we can chat about this subject and maybe Chris "Snowboot Bears" can also give you some tips. Stewart |
| Thank you so much everyone. I'm using one of those snake chains when I can, usually at the end of the evening, for the last time round the ring when most people have left. Someone told me the 'p' thing. It makes me nervous (even more nervous?!) when I use it though, I need to get used to it.
I didn't go to ringcraft last night, I felt too nervous to drive & thought even leaving the house with Ru while I was in that state would be a hazard. Instead, I did some research & called a dog behaviourist who is coming to the house today to help us out. He seems super, and has won trophies in police dog training, using praise & reward and pack leadership techniques. Hopefully it will help. I've realised Ru is getting away with stuff like being on the bed & I know if I tried to get him off he wouldn't do it, but I've been just letting him stay there. I think our problems in the ring are because he's not listening to my commands. I need to take the power back. Stewart, I look forward to meeting you. Pauline & Colin are planning to show Buddy (Ru's dad) at Crufts  |
| Cassie it is easier to introduce a pup to ring training than an older dog but in no way impossible. Zorro was nearly two years old when he entered the ring for the first time and through time he has become a good show dog he is in no way a perfect one. Ru has got to get to know the difference between play and work and that takes time but also a firm hand, take things easy although he is being silly he will learn. When you go to ring training do not get worked up or nervious just take things easy, or maybe a good friend or his breeder should show him once or twice that he learns the commands from a stranger. |
| Does Ru like treats? If you watch dogs shows you will notice handlers handing out treats. Discretely. It distracts the dog from what is going on around them. I use them for Simon when he has to wait to get on the floor for agility. If I don't he will pull, jump, bark and nearly break my arm to get out there and chase. |
Cassie thats great with the personal trainer it will also help you build up your confidence too 
Stewarts idea is great too, sometimes it is great to let someone else handle your dog on occassions. Sort of throws them a bit, they know how much they can get away with you so does them good to be in the hands of another as they dont know how much they can get away with and usually they behave. I do it on occassions with mine just to keep things different for them, it does them good. 
2 years old is harder but not impossible as stewart said. I am starting babette next month as a 2 year old and she is going to be that bit harder at that age rather then starting her as a baby, but we will get there with her also. I think the first show will be a doozie for Mim she is handling the energised bunny and will be mims first time in the ring also so should be interesting with both girls
Lets know how you go with the personal trainer and what tips he suggests for Ru and his excited behaviour. I might need the advice after babs first show |
| Hello Cassie....
Boy does yur story sound all too familiar!!! When we got our boy all of these things ran through my mind as well. I was a nervous wreck when we went to classes. Matisse would NOT stop barking and running around like it was play time....then he POOPED in the ring!!!! ARRGGHH.... yes, he was a puppy, but he stayed overly excited in the ring until 18 months. When people would clap/applaude, FORGET IT. We wound up taking Matisse to school sports so he could hear clapping and see a lot of people. We wanted to make sure he was socialized but he didn't know the difference between play and "show time" - It took patience and practice (and we took almost a year off of showing) but we all worked it out and well Matisse got used to it and outgrew that phase once he learned the difference. If you are nervous it will go straight down that lead to the dog. I think you could benefit from building confidence in yourself. Don't be afraid to be straightforward with people. They know you are learning. It will get better, take my word for it. Everyone goes through it I most definitely agree with what everyone replied to you, pretty much on the money..... |
| Wow Cassie I was just thinking about you and Ru the other day and remembering your video clip of you showing Ru. He seemed really good in that video.
I so sympathise with you. Tiggy is exactly the same. She is so movement reactive so when we are waiting our turn at obedience or agility she barks at any dogs running past and is generally silly. She has worked out already which other dogs are up for silliness with her and they egg each other on. It is very embarrassing especially when the labs and other placid dogs are being good and their owners look at me as if I'm the most useless owner ever. I had to laugh when you said you got sent to the storage cupboard. Its the naughty corner for dogs. Sometimes I wish there was a storage cupboard so I could go and hide in it.
Wayne likes to hear stories of Tiggy being naughty. He says it shows she's got spunk. But he's not the one putting up with the naughtiness, is he? Also he's 6'1" and I'm 5'7". No one disses him! |
| Ru is not interested in treats, he's not interested in food at all, we have problems getting him to eat. I stopped taking treats because they didn't work. If I show him a toy he gets even more excited so that's out of the question.
After the visit from the trainer, we have realised we are doing so many things wrong, but we are getting some things right too. Just from last night training him to be in a different room without me, the difference in him today is awesome. He's not following me into every room in the house & is listening to my commands because I'm not talking to him all the time. Just those things, and not letting him on the furniture, have made such a HUGE difference in one day I'm astounded. We are going to stick to all the pack leadership 'rules' as that seems to be working. We have a 2 week schedule of training at home, mainly for the separation anxiety, and that gives him time to work things out. Then we are joining obedience classes, they do a little agility at the end too, so he will learn to focus on listening to me with other dogs around. I'm feeling much better already, I'm so glad ChSheepdogs said at the beginning it's no use going round & round, I probably would have continued to do that
Mim, the video happened to capture his best behaved minute! I struggled with him greatly either side of that. |
| Oh, Cassie he sounds just like our last oes, Katy. She was so strong willed I almost sold her I was so fed up with her, then suddenly she changed. I am sure you will get things right with Ru. All the things you do wrong with Ru I have done wrong with my Yorkie, so she is a 5 year old spoiled madam, but I love her to bits, and I bet you are the same with Ru. Just remember Ru is the dog and you are the master. Good luck let us know how you get on.
ps being in the cupboard made me laugh! xx |
Keep us posted on how things are progressing, especially after you get into the obedience class. Private lessons are good for the handler but a classroom setting with distractions (in Ru's case other dogs) will be best for Ru. And don't get discouraged as things are going along so well & one night at class he acts like he's never had a lesson in his life. It happens to all of us, right Kristine? Sometimes they just aren't focused that night (I generally look to see how close we are to a full moon  , no kidding!). Other nights you might not be working up to par & he's taking his cues off your body language so he is getting mixed signals. Same thing can happen in the conformation ring as far as his movement & performance. Deep down he is trying to please you (I know it's hard to believe at times ) & has to rely on your body language & tone of voice to give him an indication whether he's done well or not. More than anything, break things down into small steps so you don't get overwhelmed. Pat yourself & Ru on the back for the smallest improvement. Even if I didn't win coming out of the ring, if I felt we had done better than the last time I considered it time well spent. Always end on a positive note & on your terms.....not when Ru's really to end. |
Hint of Mischief wrote: I'm feeling much better already, I'm so glad ChSheepdogs said at the beginning it's no use going round & round, I probably would have continued to do that That's great news! Keep updating how things are going. Hint of Mischief wrote: Mim, the video happened to capture his best behaved minute! I struggled with him greatly either side of that.
The good news is you know you can both do it! He just needs to be calm like that for longer at a time. Yeah, yeah I know, JUST. |
| The trainer sounds great. And going back to obedience classes to gain your power back is terrific.
Learning to work like a team together is priceless.
Best wishes cassie you and Ru will get there just step by step to progressing to that goal of showing him again. I thought the video on Ru's first show you both looked great in the ring so there is hope there after a bit of re-training for both of you.
Keep the updates going too as to how you two are doing |
| Sounds like you are doing the right things. Just wanted to add...If you are not comfortable in the old class you were taking and felt like people wouldn't talk to you, etc, try to find another class.
I took my dog to obedience classes for months and months to this one class. We made friends there but he was a bit of a slower learner than the other dogs there - mostly border collies for agility. I always felt they were juding us and thought we'd never get anywhere. He should be doing this already, and he should be past that. Always critisizing. Then we attempted to take the Canine Good Citizen and he did great. Except for the greeting with another dog and he wanted to play with it and was suppose to just sit at my side. The evaluator was nice - even though we were disqualified. But the trainer started yelling at us and ridiculing us in front of everyone else. I was humiliated and that was it. I found another class and never went back. Moral of the story...if you don't feel right about your class and it streese you out, find another one. Dog classes and shows should be fun! |
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