Help! Are OES good around children?
I received this from her : "Dawn, I cannot, in good conscience, recommend this breed around little children. Please consider a safer breed for those babies. Fondly, G/A" Now I am worried? Is there something that I don't know about OES's ??? At first I thought she was just being careful, talking about a RESCUE OES - but then I re-read this and she specifically states THIS BREED. I wrote this back: "Not even to a family who are familiar with large dogs? (We owned a Great Dane for 9 years before she passed away due to old age.) You say "a safer breed"..... can you explain that ?? (Now you have me worried !!) I have been reading all I can about the breed, and joined the OES forum. I am very curious about your comment now. When you have time, could you please be more specific? Is the breed itself not good with children? My research tells me otherwise, but since you are in OES rescue, I would love to hear your thoughts." Can anyone enlighten me about this?  I need some serious honest thoughts here. I am not going to be offended, hurt, put out or any of that garbage. I just need to know if others feel this way, or maybe she has seen so much BAD with children - that that is her "safe" approach.
I know that like most mothers I think I have wonderful children - but I really do. I have been involved in rescue for over 6 years. I have fostered countless animals and my children have a deep appreciation for ALL animals. Like I said we were owned by a Great Dane, have fostered 3 German Shepherds and are very familiar with large dogs and their care. We even have a trainer picked out already! So - gimme your thoughts people ! Dawn |
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| I only have experience with Jasper (and he's only 13 weeks old), but he's been wonderful around our 2 & 3 year old sons. He lets them do pretty much anything to him (they like using him as a pillow), and he doesn't mind at all. I just can't imagine any other breed being "safer" or better around them. He's as gentle as can be with them - including around food, toys, etc... The only time he's come close to hurting them was an accident. He was nipping clothes at the time, and he accidently grabbed our oldest son's skin. He let go immediately once he heard Jake scream, and he quit biting clothes shortly after. For a young puppy, he is just absolutely amazing with them, and I only see it getting better as he gets older. Good luck! I hope you get your rescue. |
| Dawn -
The OES has a very high herding instinct and often they herd children, other family pets, bicyles passing by, ANYTHING!  For a family with small
children this can be dangerous. It is not personal, although it can feel like it is, and it can be very frustrating and maddening  In rescue situations the dogs have often been through many difficulties, as you
obviously know. Some of these guys can be unpredictable and with the instincts OES have it is a potential disaster. 99 dogs out of 100 might be perfectly safe, but that 1 may bite, or bare teeth. People have certainly put dogs down for less and that is what the rescue is trying to avoid. If there was a bite that could be disasterous for the rescue itself. The person placing the dog has to judge the applicants home by some standard. It is impossible for the 'placer' to really get to know the family no matter how wonderful, and yes sometimes that seems unfair and sometimes that eliminates a family that MAY be a good fit. Keep in mind that there are recues and dogs that may be a perfect fit. Grannie Annie is the BEST at what she does. She is going on 40+ years of experience and doing what she knows is best for the dog. What would be horrible for the dog is having to be moved again, or worse, something disasterous. That would probably not be the case for you, but like I said there is no way for the placer to know that. Be patient, look at other recues. Maybe there is a dog that you could be the perfect home for, who knows. Just know that most reputable rescues will use the same standards where a herding or high energy dog is at stake. Keep on looking, check out http://www.petfinder.com , there are about 35 oes or mixes listed right now. Ask around your pet stores, your vet, your friends. With enough feelers out you may find the OES you are looking for. You just never know what might come your way. Good luck. Shellie (in PA) |
| In my opinion, I would never place a rescue dog of any breed with small children either. If the dog has not been raised with you how do you know you can trust it? You can take time to develop that trust, and can make the decision to risk yourself being bitten or knocked over, or pulled around, but it is a far graver decision to risk your child. And how is it fair to the dog, who may not be used to children, to come into a home, feel threatened by little hands poking and touching because it does not understand, act to "defend" itself out of fear or anxiety, and then have to be re homed or worse put to sleep because of it?
I do think that when raised with children (if the children and the dog are trained properly) the breed is reliable, but even a dog who has been trusted for years should not be left unsupervised with children. They DO herd, they WILL knock little ones over, they may nip at clothing or a hand and pull a child to what it thinks is safety. Grannie Annie's decision is to protect the dog first, who has already been through enough, and also to protect families. If you really want an OES, I would suggest a puppy, or wait until your children are older. (though I don't know how old they are now) I've had OES with my kids all their lives, but they were puppies. Now that my children are 14, 12 and almost 10 I would take on an adult, but still it would be under constant supervision. Now, these are just my thoughts, it doesn't mean I am right, there *may* be that perfect rescue out there that works out just fine, but I personally wouldn't take the chance. It sounds like you have a lot of experience, so I think whatever you choose will work out fine.... but these are things to keep in mind.  |
| Okay - thank you so much for your thoughts on this, and to everyone who wrote me private. Let me first say that I respect G/A's comment - I was very worried though because she specifically stated THE BREED would not be good around children. (I started thinking Kugo or something.....)
I am all too familiar with the herding instinct. Three German Shepherds like nothing better than to herd children. Our Dane Sara was trained to "watch the baby" - and that was her "freeze" command. Now - she was something - an amazing girl who was the size of a German Shepherd at 5 months of age. We had purchased her, and had our (then) 6 month old and 2 year old children grow up with her. Lord she was a sweet one, and I miss her to this day. SO - given all this - I can totally see where someone would suggest that this is not the best breed for those with small children. Since we have experience, I feel confidant it would be for US. NOW - my biggest wish is to get a rescue. Lord knows that there are so many dogs that need good homes. I would not take just "any" rescue (we have actually heard of a couple but due to the dogs background I felt they would not do good here.) Dogs that are given up are usually neglected, abused - or mistreated by people, or children. It is/was my HOPE to find a family dog who was given up because of TIME. We have that. Who knows - maybe we will be lucky. I wont take in a rescue just to take in a rescue - and have it snap at one of the children due to food issues and so forth. Am I making sense......? I will not set my children up to be "disposition testers." So - I am on the same road as Willowsprite. I am thinking (and have been) that a puppy would be the way to go. BUT I shall still hold out hope for a rescue that would be a perfect fit. Like I said - we are in no rush. I just wanted to clarify that there was not something in the BREED itself that was simply not good with children. Herding I can deal with. *whew* Thanks for all the help everyone. Dawn |
| When we started to find a breeder to get an OES, we ran into this as well. One breeder said come on out...3 hours out of our way...we met her and the dogs...then she said oh by the way I won't sell you a puppy since your kids are so young....I was furious...she knew I had small kids, BEFORE we went there.
Anyways, needless to say I was pretty mad. I found another great breeder, who told me it isn't the dog who has a problem, it's how you raise them to be around kids and how you raise your kids to be around the dog. That to me was more like it. My kids have every type of dog from small to big, and I know they are good with them. I agree too that if your children are small, then start with a puppy...they come with clean slates so to speak. A rescue dog with no history, could pose a problem...they don't know that this new home will be safe. They may react out of fear, and be a potential risk. Most good rescue shelters tho spend time with these dogs before moving them on. I would suggest finding a foster type facility, and one who has been living with a family. Or just to make sure this is the right dog for you, foster it, before adopting it. As a side note, Remy was an adult when I got her, who wasn't around small kids. I couldn't ask for a better behaved dog around them, she'd rather lick them clean then anything else. She also is dilligent on checking up on them...most likely to see if they have food for her, but still she is takes her job seriously. She will be 3 yrs old this summer. Good luck, P.S I LOVE great danes, we had a friend who owned them, and I see a few at the dog park...it amazes me that they are good apartment dogs. |
| i can only speak from my exerperince i had a 5 year old rescue old english sheepdog he was living with us around a year and was fine around kids one day my 3 year old daughter bent down and without any warning growl or anything he snapped at her face she ended up in hosiptal and has marks on her face everyone i spoke to said how its out of carecter for a oes so i think we will never know what happen before he came to us my daughter loves dogs it took alot for me to get other dog ,but i went for a 7 week oes cos i know they are a loving breed bobs now 8 months old daughter loves him am still on edge but he is a big softie ,so i can understand the rescue and have to say i agree with them |
| OK here is my 2 cents. If the rescue dog has a checkable background and is found to be reliable while in the foster home / situation then I would go for a rescue; all you want is a good pet and a Sheepdog is the best breed for that, especially if they are over 4 years old. Don't get a rescue dog with behavior problems around children under 15, 95% of long term experienced dog owners have never owned or really dealt with an anti social behavior problem and probably wouldn't have a clue how to correct the problems. Which can typically be corrected by an experienced physically strong, strong willed person. You wouldn't ask the eye doctor to solve a behavior problem like a psychologist. And you couldn't expect to do something you don't know how to do. And you wouldn't want to be in a dangerous situation. Sheepdogs are wonderful around children, but any child that weighs less than the dog even if they weigh more will get knocked down on occasion, generally they love to bump into you every now and then just to see if you are awake. I have been clipped from behind and leveled while Roger was playing chase with another dog, he just circled too far. A friend of mine is currently going to get a MRI on her knee because her favorite OES ran into her leg from the side; the dog has a wonderful temperament. In conclusion I would be more concerned with asking the rescue organization the right questions than the ones they were asking me. They have chosen to rescue the animals and God bless them for it. If they have a policy and exclude you it is from having to take dogs back to many times, you may have to help them understand how you will solve certain issues. So.... write a resume about your dog experience go join the local AKC, the OESCA and or your local club. Commit to take the dog to training, watch Cesar Millan on the national geographic channel. Cry when you are rejected but deal with it, the celebration of being accepted will be that much sweeter. Once you get your dog and are successful write Grannie Annie tell her of your experience good and bad and how you handled it. She is a well informed intelligent person and your information will help her form future opinions and decisions. And welcome to the OES world you will never be the same. |
| Dawn-
My turn to wade in . . .
My first OES was a rescue. We got her at 1 1/2 years of age. Did she herd small children? Yes. Was it a problem? No, it was a godsend. On two seperate occasions my dog actually 'herded' my young niece away from the street. On another occasion the dog herded my visiting sister's puppy away from the street. I'd say that was pretty smart . . . and very welcome. The herding instinct is not constant and it is not aggressive in any way. I wouldn't worry about it in a well-tempered dog. Our current sheepie, Shayleigh, we got when my children were 5 and 9. She has been nothing but pleasure with them. The only times she has nipped them (or me) was when they more than asked for it by crowding her and ignoring her warning signs (low growl, trying to get away, etc.). In our case, the children deserved what they got. No dog is perfect. Don't expect one to be. But on the scale of dog personalities and temperaments, sheepdogs get very high marks with children and families. They aren't called the 'Nanny dog' for nothing, you know. Glad to hear you are looking into rescues. It's sad that people abandon good dogs but it does happen. There's a good one out there for you. |
| Roland Zacharias here. Great response I thought and I totally agree. I basically said the same things as you in a private e-mail. I've never had any real problems placing a puppy into a home with kids but I screened them pretty close and matched them with a more calm and gentle puppy, usually a male. I work with rescue also and have seen several that would be wonderful with even very small kids and several that wouldn't be.
Anyway thanks! Zach |
| My son and Flash grew up together. We never had any problems at all but I can't honestly say that wouldn't have been the case with another dog. Flash was an extremely gentle and loving guy and loved Brendan so much he would "babysit" him. I have 4 OES now without incident but also with few small children around. I tend to think Grannie Annie is only concerned with the welfare of the dog and the safety of your children. |
| Our first OES was a rescue. I was around 12 years old. She bit me almost taking off my ear and bit a neighbors kid almost hitting his eye. We both had quite a few stitches. After that my parents sold her. Our second OES was a puppy, bought from a reputable breeder. She playfully nipped a bit but never actually injured anyone. The only time she would growl was if a family member was ruffhousing with someone else. She did not like what she thought was fighting. after her we had 2 bearded collies also as puppies and no problems. Well, I am a big boy now and have a family of my own. We have 2 small boys and purchased a OES puppy. I am not an expert and I am sure many people would disagree but... In my experience it is very difficult to get a idea about the temperment of a dog without an understanding of its background. Not the background they tell you when you adopt the dog - but the actual background. (meaning the part where the previous owner would beat it with a tree branch) I personally prefer to be there every step of the way, especially because of the children. I do not personally know anyone who has raised a family dog of any breed from a single owner newborn puppy and had a serious incident ( I am sure they are out there - but I am only commenting on personal experience). I know quite a few people that took a chance with older dogs including OESs and had issues. Good luck getting your new family member and I hope you can find the OES or other that is right for you. |
| I have two. Sofa is perfectly safe around children, probably the only danger she coud pose is to drawn them in wet kisses! Lennon likes kids, but he has an issue with smaller children around the house, outside in the park he loves to lick them and play fetch with them.
I've never seen an aggresive OES, but their herding instinct and their hyperactive nature can be dangerous around small children, they can knock your children down in their efforts to greet them or herd them, and their paws can hurt you when they get overexited. I remember one of our foster doggies, Frida. She was the sweetest thing when she arrived, she loved to be around kids and play with them... until one of the kids decided to run away from the group. Frida chased him for about 100 yards at full speed and them knocked him to the ground, then she started to lick him and grunt at him to have him get up. It was a scary sight, because the kid tought Frida was attacking him. We had to pick him up, wipe his tears and after he calmed down, explain that you NEVER take off like that when an OES is around.... Now I laugh about it, but it sure scared me when it happened, but that's the only incident worth mentioning in 2 years. If your doggie is socialized, and you follow procedures to teach your kids how to act around a big dog, enforce alpha status on your kids and teach the dog some house manners, I think you should be okay, just don't forget the golden rule: Never take your eyes from a Dog and child, and never leave them unnatended... not even for 5 seconds! |
| Auggie is great with our five grand kids,ages-3-(twins)-12yrs old.He;s 9months now,still a big baby,I would only get a puppy to be with your kids,and oes puppies are so cute!!!!!!!!! good luck |
| Well....
When my oldest (now 20) was a toddler the sheepdog that I had for over 10 years was tolerant aside from being pounced on. Eventually poor Titan had enough and I eventually had to send him off to my parents. When my second child attained the ripe old age of 3, my second sheepdog, Winston, also became a part of our family. I felt that the breed's overall temperment as well as their physical sturdiness would be more suitable for my rough & tumble boys than most other breeds. Winston completely fit the bill, and more often than not, his herding instinct had him watching over his "flock", at times literally herding them...He never exhibited a sign of agression towards my two boys. So, with that said I can only speak from experience that I found an older/adult dog will be less tolerant of children. A puppy, even though it may be more work, will mature with the children (do boys ever mature?). Rescue groups generally have a far greater percentage of adult dogs than puppies so perhaps that is not the route that is best for you. I have also had several more than annoying brushes with overzealous rescue groups who make it nearly impossible for the average person to satisfy them, and when I finally did, and adopted my cat Mita, I received an inordinite number of follow-up phone calls. As all my above mentioned pets have now passed over the rainbow bridge after living full lives I find myself once again looking for yet another big OES furball. It seems I can't stay away from the breed. Good Luck, you won't be disappointed |
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