SHow Grooming, is it really showing the best of breed
I noticed on the OES US site that the winner this years butt is teased out and to me looks totally out of proportion. I am new to this breed but loving it more every day but this totally confuses me. Why are they doing this to the breed, I see no benefit in this showing off the dogs confirmation if anything it hides the faults and does not really show off the dog. Maybe I am opening up a can of worms but I am just trying to understand. |
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| The head is teased to make the head appear larger. The topline is teased to accentuate the rise at the loin. Yes, the grooming is exagerated, however a good judge who knows his standard can and will feel through all of that backcombing and will not be fooled by it. Grooming an OES for show has truly become an artform. Thinning of the neck coat can make a short neck "appear" longer, just as not thinning the coat of an OES with a nice long neck can make it appear shorter than it is. Even markings can play a role in how the dog appears. Again, it can make good points look bad and shortcomings look great. It all boils down to the fact that this breed is totally a "hands on" breed when it comes to evaluating its conformation, and you must be able to feel through the coat and see how close what lies beneath is to our breed standard. |
| I might add that the head is teased so the dog can see when it moves. As for the butt being teased...........you will see the judge go around to the rear of the dog, stand behind it & run both hands from the top down over the sides at the same time, pushing in the hair. This gives them an idea of the proportion of the rear in comparison to the rest of the dog. One of the best judges I watched one time took one look at the dog from the side & the rear & front & then proceeded to look up at the sky while he ran his hands over every square inch of the dog. He wanted to make sure his hands were telling him, on their own, the same thing that his eyes had seen. |
| And in the sam erespect, the worst judges never lay a hand on any of the the dog's top lines and butts before awarding the ribbons. But I have to say I personally do not like the Bichon look lately being shown by many in the ring with the two headlight eyes staring out. It really does nothing to emphasize the head as it should be with a strong stop and a fall of hair over the eyes. |
| I don't have show dogs But when I had my first OES over 30 years ago I remembered reading that the coat should not be altered . I don't believe the OES was not always so teased and fluffed when shown. I myself like it when they are just groomed not fluffed so much. |
| I've told my BF for years that I wanted a Sheepdog; he was loathing the idea of it based on what he saw in the ring at Dog Shows. He thought that was their natural coat! Once he understood that that was "show grooming" and that they wouldn't do that naturally, he was so relieved. I personally can't think of another breed that is so dramatically altered for showing; in a style that cannot be maintained for normal every day life. I respect the history behind it, but am not personally "into" it. |
Darth Snuggle wrote: I personally can't think of another breed that is so dramatically altered for showing;
Poodles     |
Mim wrote: Darth Snuggle wrote: I personally can't think of another breed that is so dramatically altered for showing; Poodles I too thought Poodles; as they are dramatically altered, but I think once cut, there's no real work to maintain that daily. Our Show OES can't wear that show hair-do day in and day out, without someone actually brushing them into it every few hours.... |
| Except their heads.
The poodles come to a show with all weird bits of paper wrapped around their top hair. They take it out and fluff it just before showing. Not their butts obviously their kind of naked unlike a nice big fluffy sheepie butt. |
| Bichons? |
I personally like seeing sheepies in all their different incarnations, from poofy to nekid  ...but I have always wondered about the backcombing...does it damage the hair?  Like teased-up bouffants on a human? |
| I'd say poodles are definitely the most altered for show, and have been bred to have more and more coat too....
I know oes aren't what they were even ten years ago let alone 50 years ago and further back. They are more and more artificial in the ring every year and have been bred for more and more coat so that a dog out of todays show lines could probably never do what they were bred to do. Physically yes, but that coat just isn't a working dog coat. I must admit there's nothing more stunning to me than a well bred, sound, beautifully groomed oes moving in a show ring. Takes my breath away. Guess that's why I'm an addict 
I LOVE the look of standard poodles in the ring too, and someday I would love to have a nice big black male standard poodle to show. People I go to shows with have to drag me away from the poodle ring. LOL |
Willowsprite wrote: I'd say poodles are definitely the most altered for show, and have been bred to have more and more coat too....
I know oes aren't what they were even ten years ago let alone 50 years ago and further back. They are more and more artificial in the ring every year and have been bred for more and more coat so that a dog out of todays show lines could probably never do what they were bred to do. Physically yes, but that coat just isn't a working dog coat. LOL well, if you did as some accounts say was done - dogs were shaved down annually like the sheep and grew out, unbrushed like the sheep they wouldn't look like our sheep dogs today (and probably all would be "rescued" ) but they could fution like the old farm dogs. |
I happen to think the OES should look the way mine do most of the time...Dirty from playing with hair like they just woke up!
Seriously, I don't care for all that teasing myself and feel the breed should look more "natural" since they are a herding breed bred for herding sheep. I can't imagine any of the show groomed dogs looking like that and herding anything! |
| Show dog and also a true working OES in full coat.
Albert bringing home the 200 plus sheep. He still goes into the showring after a scrub up from a days working.
In Australia, Europe and the UK the stylising of the OES is not as extreme as elsewhere. Scissor shaping and backcombing and product. The standard says no altering the outline of the dog by artificile means. That is excessive scissor shaping and product in the coat. In Europe you can be disqualified from the ring by a judge if they feel product in the coat. |
| great photo - but is he coat as "sculpted" in Australia when you show as it is int he US?
I sent my extreme grooming photo to my herding instructor and she was floored - she couldn't believe it was rough and tumble Marley |
ravenmoonart wrote: I personally like seeing sheepies in all their different incarnations, from poofy to nekid
...but I have always wondered about the backcombing...does it damage the hair? Like teased-up bouffants on a human?No, but you do have to completely brush it out at the end of the show weekend so it doesn't all turn to mats. If it's a 2 day show, for example, you leave the teasing from the first day in for the second day of showing (saves time and it gives you a nice base to work with). The teasing really is just for show (literally), to accentuate the different parts of the dog in an exaggerated way. For some dogs, the grooming is a way to camouflage faults so, in this breed, it really is vital for the judge to really get under the hair and feel the dog. I guess I'd equate it to getting dressed up for a pageant. You don't put on that much makeup and a dress for everyday life but it's kind of fun to do for a day or two just to go all out. Kind of the same with the OES. I love doing the grooming for show. I hate the responsibility of day to day grooming but I love getting Owen show ready. I wish it was all the grooming I had to do! I guess I don't think of Owen as very sculpted, but I definitely see dogs that do. I like the puffy grooming but I don't like when it looks like the dog has a few different molded sections. I don't put a lot of product in Owen's coat-- it's a nice, harsh coat that actually stands up like that with very little manipulation. The only exception is his head, which I enjoy teasing way too much. I was a child of the 80s so making his hair huge is very nostalgic. 
Here he is in his finishing pic. His feet and butt are freshly trimmed but that's about it.  |
| That is the coolest pic Lisa! Thanks for posting it |
| No Kerry, here is a few of how we present the dogs and you can see not as scissored.
Brie Natural 
In the showring 
Son in Europe 
Son in NZ 
And son here in the showring 
Now we do a little bit of scissoring to round of feet and for Hygiene purposes but not to the extreme you see elsewhere. No amount of scissoring or boofing out and spraying will alter the fact your dog has a wide butt and good sized head or it hasn't, some people go overboard to hide faults, but most judges know this is a hands on breed to judge. Now if I did not trim brie a bit her coat would hit the ground. She grows length like crazy.
Its a great photo stacey, I just love it, proves also if correct coat, that is harsh and weather proof OES can work and be show dogs as well. The lady that owns and bred him even though after his farm work, it really does not take a huge ordeal to get him up to scratch for the showring. This is my all time favourite photo of him, he is as gentle as a little lamb as well, a real sweetie.
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| This is Chewie at a UKC show (no product allowed). It was quite fun - no grooming table, brought all my stuff for 3 events (conformation, obedience and weight pull) all in 1 tote bag! I groomed with 4 things - a pin brush, a slicker for his feet, a comb and a spray bottle of water.
In conformation: 
But before winning best in show on the same day he was doing this: 
and this!  |
| Dawn I love it !!!! |
Those pictures are the best pictures! Love to see the coats full and well groomed AND still be doing work! I guess I put my foot in my mouth when I said I couldn't imagine the super groomed dogs doing their work  You proved me wrong! Those dogs are gorgeous AND workers!!!! Impressive. |
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