update on Guinness
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Oh Cindy I am soooo sorry. at least they can start him on an IV antibiotic to keep the infection from spreading in the meantime  . |
I am so so sorry for this  Guinness must be miserable, and you must be devastated besides being extremely angry. You and Guinness are in my thoughts and prayers.
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| Praying for you both!!! |
| Holy crap! That is mind-boggling. Your poor sweet doggie. I can't imagine how frustrated you must feel. I am glad he doesn't need the TPLO but to discover the infection is both great (glad they found it!) and maddening at the same time. I hope they solve the infection right away and that Guinness can finally be on the mend. |
I don't believe they can start antibiotics because the implant will need to be removed . They get a culture and sensitivity and if antibiotics are started now it will alter the culture.The other vet put in a helica (sp?) implant which is widely used in Europe. These vets do not use them so I have lots of questions about how they are planning on doing this and WHY did they think the tplo was even necessary Which they did not do (Thank goodness) just scoped and looked and knee was fine Do I need a 3rd opinion and where the hello do I go???? aughhhhhhh I am going to bed This has me psychotic  |
| You poor guys. What a disaster!!
So sorry you are going through this. Saying prayers for you and your baby. |
| Cindy, try to get a good night's rest. It sounds as though the new vet did the right thing by scoping instead of doing another useless procedure. They should be able to start antibiotics immediately. They will usually start with a broad spectrum antibiotic and when the sensitivities come in in a few days they will change the antibiotic if needed. The culture is from the orginal swab and will be plated on a culture dish now, starting the antibiotics will not affect the culture.
I was a passive child and even young adult but I have not aged well as far as temperment....and alot of other things, but he(( has no rath like I'd rain down on that vet 
When Guinness is healed maybe we can schedule a play date. MD isn't that big. We are near Hagerstown. Give him a hug from Chauncey & me.....Kathy |
| If I'm reading it correctly I dont think they have the culture yet. It wont be till the do the procedure on Mon or Tues.
The infection diagnosis is by Xray at this stage. |
| I assumed they would have scoped or aspirated and started an antibiotic given his history. As a nurse I would have preferred to see the infection treated immediately before surgery if possible. What a mess. |
| Cindy......
Bless you heart!!! Cindy is an RN as well so, I am sure no vet is getting an easy time right now! Hang in there, you both are troopers! |
| Hang in there, we are all pulling for you and Guinness........ |
| Cindy...This is so horrid!!! Poor you and Guiness!! I agree, try to get some rest (I know, easier said than done) ~~~ I have been thinking of you since I read your last post. Please give the sweetie a gentle hug from me...you all are in my thoughts and prayers.
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| So sorry--praying for you and Guiness. |
| kind thoughts and wishes to you both. you have been through so much. if you ever find yourself in Winnipeg, I know an amazing vet who does osteo stuff. he did theeper's tplo for us. it was a rousing success and cost a LOT less than what you were supposed to pay. he's very well known here and does all the tough cases in our area (people come from all over).
good luck to you both. all fingers and paws are crossed here for you. |
OMG, Cindy!  I'm so sorry for what poor Guinness and you are going thru. I would be so beside-myself-livid at the original vet surgeon, and would definitely consult an attorney.
In the meantime, many prayers for Guinness will be said. |
| Thanks everyone I am almost to the point I cannot think straight....I have a friend meeting me at the vets today The original vet used a helica(sp) implant Used widely in Europe not here The vets at VOSM do not use them So they need to get some equipment to remove. They cannot start antibiotics because they need to culture when implant removed. Starting them now will alter the culture and sensitivity. I have lots of questions This is just such a nightmare emotionally and financially. When does one stop. He has given so much to us and the community I am going to proceed but want the very best If I have to drive him across the country I will. The support here really helps.
PS took a neked sheepie to his foster home so another one is on his way to a better life.................. |
| I think I repeated my self in this last post My brain is shot sorry |
The mind boggles. Cindy, I don't know what to say. This is twilight zone nightmarish. At least it looks like they finally know WHAT the problem really is. Your vets, once the dust settles, will need to report this to the manufacturer of the device at a bare minimum. Of course, by then you and Guinness will be sipping margaritas at some therapy dog visit while he schmoozes and you work on your article to make people aware of what can go wrong etc etc etc By the way, your vets now, if I'm not mistaken, are big into working on performance dogs, which require the utmost of the utmost in careful care to get them back fully functional. Suspect The Boy is in excellent hands.
Kristine |
Yes this is a big center for all the performance dogs in the area. They actually have an agility set up in a large room All the floors are slip resistant. They have underwater treadmills etc. State of the art BUT they do not use the Helica implant and Dr C told me his first choice would not have been to replace my boys hip. Twilight zone indeed. I have my questions on paper and a pick up appointment for 12 N. Nothing like having a crisis on a holiday week/weekend. and the vet that did the org surgery will not talk to my present vet. But present vet would talk to him GEEZE My head feels like it is going to spin and pop off. Will re post later when I have some more answers. If I have any 
yes its me 4dog night dang gone computer |
| Poor Guiness! Hugs to him! |
| For what its worth, it's VERY unprofessional for the first vet not to talk to your current vet.
Bruised ego etc aside you are entitled to a second opinion and to change practitioners if you wish and the first vet is ethically and professionally bound to aid you in that. But if he/she wont talk then unfortunately there's not a lot you can do about it right now. It might be worth making a complaint to the Veterinary Registration Board when you have the time and energy. Especially if you feel that his lack of communication is detrimental to Guiness's health. The decision to replace the hip and the type of replacement used were one vet's clinical decision and much more difficult to justify or not. But interprofessional communication is a no brainer. |
Just getting caught up...again...on the Guinness saga 
Poor Guinness. Poor Cindy, poor bank acct......
Keep your lists, they are lifesavers even for us nurses who know what to ask! I have had more notes and lists this week for doctors - the mind knows what to ask, but the brain gets on overload!  Maybe aging has something to do with it is my sad thought as well.......
Hugs to you and Guinness, this WILL work out! |
| What a nightmare!! You poor thing. I can only imagine how awful this whole ordeal has been for you. I would be out of my skin, so livid I would be for the unnecessary pain and suffering my poor baby had been in. Bless your heart, Cindy. I really hope they can get him some pain relief SOON and finally find and fix the real problem.
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| I am confused by the decision not to give anitbiotics at this point - yes I am NOT a health professional, but my father just went through a similar post op infection and they put him on broad spectrum antibiotics prior to his surgery, which was delayed by a few days as well. They did th esurgery and put in a drain and then cultured and did a specific antibiotic. Maybe someone in the healthcare profession can explain it to us - in case we ever run up against this type of thing again? |
kerry wrote: I am confused by the decision not to give anitbiotics at this point - yes I am NOT a health professional, but my father just went through a similar post op infection and they put him on broad spectrum antibiotics prior to his surgery, which was delayed by a few days as well. They did th esurgery and put in a drain and then cultured and did a specific antibiotic. Maybe someone in the healthcare profession can explain it to us - in case we ever run up against this type of thing again?
I'll jump in..... For our human patients with an infected prosthesis, the usual is to remove the infected prosthesis and pack the bone with what are called antibiotic beads. Then put in a PICC/groshong cath and do long term (at least 6 weeks) antibiotics that are specific to whatever bug grows out. Most of the time it is staph that grows out, as it is very prevalent on the skin all the time. It's when it gets inside that all the problems really get nasty. And a bone infection (osteomylitis) is very tough to get rid of. Unless the infection is systemic (in the blood, etc) and causing illness and a life threat to the person, it really isn't that critical to wait the extra few days to get a culture grow it out. Most likely the infection has been brewing for long enough that a few more days isn't a bad thing - can actually save time in the long run by treating with the right drug right from the start. Broad spectrum has it's uses, but it does contribute to drug sensitivity when it is thrown at a bacteria without it being the right drug to kill it. It has to be a calculated use - if it is life threatening, or not able to be cultured, then broad spectrum is the best bet. Seeing this one in Guinness can get ID'd, it is most likely better to wait and use the specific drug that will work best. Hope this helps. Oh, and in a human, after the bone is proven free of infection, they usually reinsert a prosthesis. I know dogs can do OK without the ball in the socket - so maybe not for Guinness? Just a guess. edit - and the beads usually are tobramycin - if that matters! oh, one more thing - you can sometimes get by with a broad spectrum antibiotic and then do the culture. The problem is, you may have started to kill the bug (a good thing), but it also skews the culture results, as you can't see what already is dead and gone! If you follow me - if the broad spectrum killed the bug, you won't know what it is. If the culture grows, you get and ID on the bug, but just contributed to drug sensitivity - "super bugs". It is a crap shoot sometimes.... |
| most likely since he is 86 (my dad) I guess the calculation was worth the risk - especially since apparently the infection was there for so long (he would never complain about anything!)
FYI - in his case it was a screen for a hernia operation that casued/caught the infection. |
| Oh no! Poor Guiness. I'm thinking of you and hope that he gets better soon |
| Thinking of you two at the moment!!! |
| OMG, Cindy! Poor Guinness!!!
If you need help slapping the snot out of someone just give me a call.
Give me a call anyway.
Nita |
| Hope all goes well for Guinness, his unnecessary suffering is unimaginable not to mention your stress worrying about it all. I'd get Guinness all fixed up and then go after the goon who put this dog in terrible distress.
Sheepie2 |
| I may be the goon that needs the snot slapped out of........I wish I had never started any surgical procedure
I saw three vets at the center The implant needs to come out The x rays look horrible (I had them put a fentanyl patch on his hip) This center has to get the equipment to remove the round part of the implant (that is in the socket) the long part that screwed in will just fall out due to the situation. They will do it for 2000 . They do not want to put an implant in now. They feel it is infected.They said my original surgeon is good and if this was their implant they would do it for free. NOW they suggested I take the x rays to first doc. So I took them and he was in surgery but called right away. He said it may not be infected but came loose (it is screwed in I just don't know) and if it was not infected he would put another implant in at cost (1500) but if it looked really infected then a FHO would be done If another implant is put in and the cultures come back in 5 to 7 days and it was infected then he needs another surgery to remove. He said if he had know Guinness was still in pain he would have brought me in for a revision. I told him well they sent you the records. NO THEY DID NOT I asked them to the first day The Clerical staff there are very nice not too bright They had not even sent to my reg vet because they had her old practice in data base (she has been a mobile vet for 10 years) so aaaauuuggghhhhhhhhh This is just a night mare I slept on the couch because Guinness cannot go up steps I had am MRI that showed a torn cruciate ligament and when the scoped there was a tiny bit of stringy stuff 2000 for yesterday. I have run out of money and my mind I don't think big dogs do well with FHO an implant is better but months and months of therapy that is expensive, I have an appoint to get a knee replacement but who will take care of my boy............ I need to make a decision The original vet can do the surgery tue (I have an appt with him mon) the new guys can do it thur if equipment comes in. and I need a money fairy . But the real issue is what is best for Guinness My brain is fried. Bob just wants him fixed (well hello so do I ) Thanks for letting me vent  |
| Aren't men wonderful? Just fix it! I have my share of that with Dan and Morgan - like you need more stress at a time like this.
Wow - I wouldn't be able to keep track of all of that with a score card. No use in second guessing the initial surgery - its done. Can you take a breath and ask both of the vets what they think the best course of action is? Not what they can do (cause we all know they can do so much these days) but what all your options are, which have the best outcomes adn which are the most reasonable (in terms of a dog who has no idea what is going on? Its so overwhelming when you are in the midst of all of this it's almost like there is a role for a patient advocate. |
| You certainly are not the goon in this scenerio - you went to the vet for a professional opinion, got one, and followed it. Something went wrong with the procedure and now you and your dog are paying for it. Personally, I would do what is best all around - if Guinness is suffering then follow your heart. The dollar does not cure all ails. You have a love for dogs, so your decision will be the right one. Do what you think best. |
| I Agree^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Bella's eye surgery was expensive but it fixed the problem. How much more can the poor guy/or you take? I would also be considering some legal action on the idiot who put in the implant in the first place. Complications are one thing, but this whole thing is like a circus.
Praying it will be resolved soon. |
| I am so sorry for you and Guiness. Poor boy and poor you.
I can only offer what my hip vet has told me. If the muscle strength is good in a big dog, a FHO can be very successful. How is his other hip? That can make a big difference too. Hugs to you both. Just breathe... |
| I am actually sobbing here for you and Guiness. I have nothing to offer, but again, I send kind thoughts (and virtual hugs too).
All fingers and paws are crossed here, hoping for a speedy and complete recovery for your wonderful pup and for your peace of mind. |
| I can't imagine how agonizing this is for you. Things are so out of hand expensive now at the vets, I am almost phobic when I have to go in there. I hope that there is some sort of answer that you can live with. Hugs to you both.
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| I have been following this and my heart just aches for all of you!!! Please know that FHO is an option for big digs. My Allie had both hips done and did well until she was 12 and lived to 13. Going up and down stairs and running. So if that is a better option, don't be afraid ,but at this point with pain and all it's what's best for Guiness. I know you will make a good decision. You have our prayers. |
| If I still have the presence of mind to hit the right keys and get my thoughts straight I will give an update
First I want to thank everyone for their support It has helped enormously!! I spoke to the new surgeon news year eve The first thing he asked was how my boy was  He is willing to call the first vet and discuss Guinness's case with him (we will see how this goes ) He and I have decided to have first vet remove implant (note when the tech at the new vets called the company that makes the Helica implant the representative wanted to know why it needed to be removed!! New vet is calling them back) I cannot find the companies # anywhere or stats on when an implant goes bad what is done I believe they go to FHO but what about a new implant????????????? Ok back to the plan We (new vet and I ) want the implant removed , tons of cultures done. some sort of bone grafting done (New vet and I both do not want a new implant put in compromised bone) and antibiotics started. Then when cultures come back and bone is strong ,put new implant in (or my new fragmented thought) may be to leave it as an FHO. I have to discuss this with both vets. I feel much more comfortable with the new vet but he wants old vet to remove and feels comfortable with that. I am now in the den on a mattress on the floor with my boy I am really too old for this. Cost of all this??? Old vet will remove for free. I am just unable to thing beyond that. Does anyone out there know anyone that had to have their dogs implant removed??????????
Happy New Year Its me OES.org kicks me out everytime I hit to post  |
| Athough things are still terrible for you guys, its so good to hear that you have a plan of action and that you feel you have a vet whose advice you can trust. Good news that you can have the implant removed at no cost too.
Sending prayers and wishing you all the best.  |
| Just checking in on Guiness. Hope he is doing okay! |
| sounds rational, Cindy
The 1st step regardless, is getting the old one out and clearing the infection. That will take time, you will have time to debate your options and talk more with the vets, get opinions from others, etc. |
| Ok Guinness is at the first surgeons office ( i had a half bottle of wine at lunch ,ate at home but here goes!!) None of the records were sent to my vet or the first surgeon,,,,,crappy The surgeon said if he had known he would have brought him in for a revision........He also said a client said the 2nd vet stated he called him several times and he did not call back . well he said he never got the calls........He did talk to the 2nd vet today He called him back. So that is cleared up Guinness sat and kissed the 1st vet for over 5 min , I asked him if he wanted me to call him off he said he rather liked it I know the first vet is sincere (because of guinness , guinness can tell these things) soooooo he is what is going on I left him there (crying all the way home an in the office) they are going to give him morphine for pain. Dr P will remove the implant and put a new one in for 1500. If we leave the implant out the head of the femur will rub and wear down too much for an implant to be put in at a later date. I asked him how many revisions he has done that failed and he said none He hopes Guinness's case does not bite him back and fail. If it fails and is infected (he did not think it was infected) then it would have to be removed I asked what that would cost and he said he did not want it to be about cost but getting guinness better. This has been just a awful, crappy , terrible situation. I am going to have another glass of wine and take a nap. Thank you all for your support. I think at this point if my head has not exploded it will not But anything can happen I need to be calm and rational in order to help my sweet boy. Will post as I get updates .
Oh Hello I was logged in and when I hit post I was no longer logged in RON!!!!!!! its me crazy person with the broke sheepdog |
Anonymous wrote: I am going to have another glass of wine and take a nap.
Any particular vintage? I'll send a bottle right over. Sounds like you could use good thoughts and an extra bottle or two to get through this. |
| OMG! I am just now following this post. My heart and prayers go out to you. If the money is an issue perhaps the Vet can work out some sort of payment plan. But money is not always the issue and it comes down to what is best for Guiness. Can you get him out of pain? Can he recover to a halfway normal life? Only you can make those decisions.
We are thinking of you and praying for you to find the answers you can live with and are best for Guiness. Please take care of yourself too... God bless. |
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