Agility Training vs. Herding
I have only had her enrolled in puppy classes when she was 9 weeks old, and haven't done any additional professional training. I think that Agility or Herding would be a good fit for her energy level. My question is, should I first get her enrolled into more behavioral training prior to Agility/Herding? To try to get her focused more? Also, to people who do Agility and Herding, do you have a preference for your dogs? I'm looking for an activity to take away energy and that will keep her mind happy, as well. |
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| I do both - the first thing is YES your dog should have more training before starting either - definitly a solid recall (even if it involves bribes), focus is the most important skill your dog can have in either venue, although we all know its harder to achieve usually around the sheep.
All I can say is we started in agility and the team work carries over into herding (and everything else). If intro to herding classes are very basic - as in ability to think and function around live sheep then that is great to start with as well. (I was once assigned a week of picking up stones in the ring with sheep while my dog was under a controlled command  )
The most important thing is to make sure the club has a good instructor - I have gone through more than one in both arenas - that can really teach you skills, not just get your dog some playtime on equipment or sheep, unless all you are looking for is playtime. |
| As someone who does both sports and teaches obedience, I would recommend doing a couple or more sessions of obedience classes first. They are pretty much a solid foundation for any sport you wish to go into later on. Good classes teach the basic obedience exercises plus focusing on building a strong teamwork link between you and your dog.
Herding classes usually start out on a long line of sorts, unless you have a very well trained (obedience) dog who will listen to you in the strongest possible distraction (that would be the sheep!). You need a good working relationship and the dog will learn commands. Granted - it's not neccessary 1st to do obedience - lots of differences in the two sports. (The working herding dogs may not go to formal classes, but you can bet they are worked with from birth to be respoonsive to the human working them and the flock!) But, the part about having a solid working relationship with your dog before you start will save lots of frustration later on. The last thing you want is a dog going gaga for the sheep with you yelling and the dog blowing you off for lack of prior team building on your part. Agility definitely benefits from obedience 1st. Depending on the school's format, there may be a prerequisite of a certain level of obedience skills before you can join the agility class. Our classes offered here locally by the kennel club have a set of 3 foundation classes that must be passed and have instructor approval to advance to each next level. These are definitely geared toward people wishing to compete, or at least learn things in a way that is close to the "real" way. Then you move to the classes that prepare for competition. Other places offer a more recreational agility and are less structured and just offer it more as a play, fun activity running around on the equipment. I would certainly stop in and observe, talk with the staff and see what works for you. Hope this helps! - and good luck, it is a LOT of fun! |
| Listen to the posters! You need a good foundation in obedience for agility definitely. Otherwise you will find yourself wasting your time & the time of others in the class & your dog will get frustrated. .
I've only done herding instinct testing on my dogs but I would say the same here. Your dog needs to be able to respond properly to your commands in the herding arena too. So a good foundation on obedience (possibly an attention class too) would help. Sorta like you gotta eat your vegetables before you get dessert  |
OK, I'm going to go against the grain here  :
Take her to be instinct tested FIRST. If she doesn't have any, there is no vrs. Your decision has been made for you
(Though some dogs take more than one exposure to turn on to stock, so that's not necessarily the final word either. But if she doesn't love it from the get-go and you mainly want something fun for her to do, agility should fit that bill just fine). The herding instructor will test her for you. You don't need more than basic obedience commands, Most herding instructors don't want to hear that you have obedience titles (or even agility titles) on a dog they're about to test, because they know the former can make it harder to make the dog understand the sheep are not just one big stinkin' distraction and they shouldn't just stand there staring at their handler's face. And the latter can make it harder for the handler to grasp herding 101. Not that you can't do all three if you want to, and do them well. But as far as herding is concerned formal obedience is absolutely not a prereq. A solid recall and (ideally) some kind of stay is. I saw her loose at sheepiefest. I'm pretty sure she had a recall. I could be dreaming that one, but...
Even if she has a solid stay, there's no guarantee it means squat when you transfer it to herding if she's a high drive dog so you'll have to teach her stay in that context anyway. My 12 year old obedience titled dog struggles with basic obedience around stock. Her not so high drive niece who is basically an obedience drop-out (or should be) has no problem with the concept. 
Get her instinct tested, then ask the instructor (who is it by the way?) what he or she would recommend. In the mean time, ask about the prereqs for agility classes and fulfill those requirements if needed and do agility for sure. I think she'll love it. Kristine |
| The advice above makes total sense and the best route, I'm sure ....but I wanted to add that Yuki did herding and she didn't have any advanced obedience type training prior. She learned the commands as she went. Not to toot our horn or anything, but she was a lot better than the dogs who were super trained (out of the ring). Well, she did know the things she was being asked to do, but they used different words for them, so she had to learn many of them again.
I'm not saying "this means you should do it w/o more training first" ...just that my dog and the ones I've seen come start herding for the most part, had little obedience training. The puppies don't even know how to sit, but the treat was so HUGE (herding sheep), they learned very fast. |
| we-e-e-e-ll I can see what you are saying Kristine, but I have listened many times to my istructor and a few others complain about dogs showing up for training with absolutely no control outside the ring. having a decent recall and sit stay outside the pen does help (usually) inside the pen.
But yes, we did do early instinct testing, I had forgotten that. |
| We did Chewie's 1st instinct testing (formally) at 13 months.
1st rally leg at 17 months. 1st real agility class at about 3 yrs old! There is no real wrong or right time. Maybe a just better order that might make things easier.
And, every person and every dog are different, and have a different style and past experiences and future goals. 
It is much better to at least be out there doing something with your dog - learning something and having fun should go hand in hand! Lots of the stuff we have done ended up happening or not happening based on my schedule and availability of classes. Sometimes schedules determine what you do.  |
kerry wrote: we-e-e-e-ll I can see what you are saying Kristine, but I have listened many times to my istructor and a few others complain about dogs showing up for training with absolutely no control outside the ring.
Instructor's pet peeve is dogs who drag their owners around So, yes, basic manners is a good thing.
Kristine |
| She does have a good recall. Even when we go to the dog park, she'll come to me if I whistle or call for her. She also always has to know where I am. One day when we were at the dog park, I was talking to some other dog owners when Asterisk decided to leave a deposit. I cleaned it up and she must not have seen me move past her. She couldn't find me and she just sat where I had been standing and was looking frantically for me. Once she found me, she went off to play again.
I think going through additional training is really a great idea. She'll sit, give paw, and lay down... but ususally only if prompted by a treat. We have a very close bond, I think agility/herding would be great for her. |
* Capt. Obvious Danger wrote: She does have a good recall. Even when we go to the dog park, she'll come to me if I whistle or call for her. She also always has to know where I am. One day when we were at the dog park, I was talking to some other dog owners when Asterisk decided to leave a deposit. I cleaned it up and she must not have seen me move past her. She couldn't find me and she just sat where I had been standing and was looking frantically for me. Once she found me, she went off to play again.
I think going through additional training is really a great idea. She'll sit, give paw, and lay down... but ususally only if prompted by a treat. We have a very close bond, I think agility/herding would be great for her. If she is that good - see if you can get in an agility foundations class, not as much fun as real agility ut something I really wish we had been offerred when I started. SOmewhere I wrote out three skills I thought were important for agility - I was suppossed to send them to Kristine before December, oopsie 
I found it and pm'd it to you. |
| My Bad.
Both of my dogs only went to basic obedience training. And because of their people's lack of...drive...they did not do so well. We learned a lot more in agility then any place else. Don't get me wrong, training is a wonderful thing. Basic recall is a must. Sit, stay and be totally focused on you. Bribes, treats, favorite toy, are a must at first. If the basic commands are missing you get a person like in our class who tells her dog to sit and stay at least fifty times and yes it is frustrating. Simon excels at agility He loves it and thats great for me because I love it. Garfunkel (likes) it..I think. Our class, second trainer by the way, is 90 minutes long and does tire them out mentally and physically. |
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