What brand of food to use
Any recommendations or should I stay with what works? Thanks Lisa and Frankie |
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| Hi Lisa!
I understand the 'loose poop' concern. My Loki has IBS and we're on constant poop consistency alert around here - Pretty gross but you get used to it. We've been keeping special 'poopie butt' towels at the ready for quite some time now. We finally went to Pro Plan and that did the trick for us for the most part, but there are still times when we're outside more than in, if you know what I mean. That being said, every dog is different and there are many reasons for loose stools. Unfortunately it's mostly a case of what works best for your dog. Is he on any medication that could be contributing to the problem? Has the vet given you any suggestions based on his history, or does he see a problem? The people here on the forum are the most knowledgeable around when it comes to sheepdog nutrition and I'm sure there will be many helpful hints to come. Hang tough and try not to worry too much. |
| Tonks and Luna had loose stool issues since they were pups. Its ALOT better now, and I often wonder if it wasn't that they just needed to mature more; like their digestive track just wasn't growing as fast as the rest of them.
That being said; we did try alot of things. Pumpkin with each meal helped somewhat. And I found when I switched to the Wellness large breed dry food, that they did okay with it. But I have read that Wellness is getting ready to go into major retailers, and a decrease in quality is expected. So we are now on the hunt for a new food that will keep my girls poop solid. I'll let you know if anything in particular knocks our socks off. |
| Try ProPlan Sensitive Skin & Stomach. I have one of my older boys in it. He's alwasy had a sensitive intestinal tract. Since I switched to this formula I've had only 2 (knock on wood) episodes of loose stool on almost 2-1/2 years. |
Loose oop here too...We feed Orijen 6 fresh fish mix. And my dog gets Tylan powder...Tylan pwoder is a prescription powder we got from the internal medicine doctor. It tates terrible so I put it into capsuls  and my boy gets one capsul in cheese with his meal in the morning and eveing...
Lots of reasons for loose poop...too much food, changing food too quickly, parasites...Rule out the medical reasons first...often corn causes loose poop so check your ingredients...check the ingredients in the treats too. |
| The proplan sensitive is great.
Whatever food you decide on just transition over slowly taking about a week or more to slowly change over. 
Eagle pack Hololistic brands are great too, when trying something else to see if it agrees with your doggie, try something in the proteins they have not had before. So if been on chicken variety of whatever dry go for a different one. Eagle pack has duck, Venison, fish etc as well as normal chicken or lamb varities in the hololistic variety. I am not a fan of any Science diet dry, I dont know what it is like over there but here vets get commissions for selling (pushing) it. I also dont know if they have changed the preservative of the food yet but it was extremely nasty stuff they used to preserve the dry. There is so many good brands on the market now, trial and error to see what suits your baby and always when trying another brand, "Transition over to the newer stuff slowly" |
| I tried the brand you're considering and for "my" dog... it didn't work well and made his poop runny. It was a BETTER food, but too rich.
Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach (Salmon) worked for awhile on my dog, but right now we are on Wellness. |
| Canidae All Life Stages works for us. i use both the dry and a little of the can |
| we tried multiple foods and my boy continued to have problems - exasperated when you and the pet store both run out of the food you have been feeding at the same time!!!
The best results we have had - and the thing that has kept him out of the vet hospital for IV fluids for the longest periods of time is a raw diet. |
| Wow! I was very surprised by the suggestions. I know how tough it is to find a good dog food if you're like me you want the best for your babies, but i'm quite surprised at the suggestions here, working in a pet store and being a vet tech i am constantly researching dog/cat food..... pro plan is no longer as good as you once thought it too be....if you dont agree with science diet you should not agree with pro plan, orijen is way too high of a protein to feed any dog let alone an OES. As you all should know OES can not have rice or supplemental vitamin C which is in all of the foods you'se have suggested. The best food for your oes is homemade and i know that seems quite unpractical for most of us and confusing as to what we should be making to make sure our sheepies get everything they need. I struggle with this same thing everyday!!! I am currently researching Blue Buffalo and have written to them about providing a food with no supplemental vitamin C as they do have great diets without rice, when I hear back I will let you all know. Ingredients I DO use when making Sprocket food is (and Im a vegan but anything for my kids!!!)
-fresh chicken, beef, pork, fish, lamb -fresh organic oatmeal -fresh organic carrots, potatoes, brocolli, cauliflower -chia seeds or flax seeds Also I am currently researching supplements at my local health food store that do not contain vit.C between home cooked meals I feed Sprocket, Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Salmon and Merrick canned food. Merrick is the number one food brand (especially in canned food) it uses all human grade ingredients, and have never once been recalled. FYI vitamin C causes liver and kidney problems in OES. Rice is not digested and irritates the bowels of an OES. Try using or providing ingredients that your dogs ancestors would have eaten as that will never change the genetic make up of your current dog. Quail, lamb, fresh garden fruits and veggies as sheepies would herd sheep to the market these foods were often offered to the working dogs Sprocket also loves, apples, pears, and bananas |
| What studies are you using that show rice irritates the bowels and that OES can't have supplemental Vit c? |
AnimalPassionist wrote: FYI vitamin C causes liver and kidney problems in OES.
Rice is not digested and irritates the bowels of an OES. Huh? Since when? 
Source? Research? Documentation? See, my OES beg to differ on both counts. But if researchers have done a scientific study on these two items relative to our breed I'll be happy to read the results to my dogs and convince them otherwise
Kristine |
| Your information is weird. Where are you getting this from? I hope it isn't the vet that you work for...
Quote: Merrick is the number one food brand (especially in canned food)
it uses all human grade ingredients, and have never once been recalled. There's really no such thing as "human grade." It's a term that dog food companies use to describe their ingredients but there's no legal definition of what that really means. http://www.wellsphere.com/pet-health-ar ... ets/597364 “Human grade” has no formal legal definition. But the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Center for Veterinary Medicine has taken the position that if every ingredient in a product is edible, meaning that it was processed according to rules of sanitation required of food sold to people, then the product may be labeled “human grade,” said Dr. William Burkholder, a veterinary medical officer and the agency’s resident pet nutrition expert. |
ChSheepdogs wrote: Try ProPlan Sensitive Skin & Stomach. I have one of my older boys in it. He's alwasy had a sensitive intestinal tract. Since I switched to this formula I've had only 2 (knock on wood) episodes of loose stool on almost 2-1/2 years.
I agree this works really well...it is what we used to use on the whole clan. When it went up ten dollars and bag in one week we tried Kirkland Chicken and Rice. We still have the same bunny poops as with Pro Plan SSS (well, maybe not that small  )
I also supplement with Vitamin C and use plain chicken and rice if we are having any issues. (all the vets I have worked for in 12 years recommend it  ) |
| My holistic vet suggested I stop using rice and both dogs are doing better since I took them off. I mix in oatmeal actually as a fiber source to my raw meat and veg. I think it depends on the dog perhaps. All know this breed seems to have sensitive stomachs. Both my dogs are sensitive. Laika is doing a lot better than Langley so perhaps that is an age thing like mentioned. I will do anything to keep them poops firm I spend a lot of time and money doing it. |
| I'm also skeptical of the term "human grade". Burger King, McDonald's and Taco Bell all serve "Human Grade" foods, but I wouldn't let my dogs eat any of it. |
| ^^^^
Meanie!!! My guys thinks any trip requires mcdonalds, oh ans in a pinch I have fed Boston Markets meat loaf, which really can get a conversation started with an entire line when you order it  |
I've had 8 OES over the last 20 years and have never had one with a senstive stomach....ever. The food that works for me is the one they'll actually eat  Gabriel will only eat ProPlan and doesn't really like fruits or vegetables. He won't eat Merrick canned but will eat Pedigree ground chicken. It doesn't matter how "high quality" a food is if they won't eat it. Jonah is picky and will either eat anything or nothing depending on his mood. Rosco and Zachary will eat tree bark if it's in the bowl .So my current stock is ProPlan, NutroUltra Senior and Adult, Canidae, Merrick Cowboy and Eagle Pack.
And I am confused as to what source/s you are citing. |
| Ive had OES since 1976, we had one pass away at 18 years and one week old. Most have been around 14 so we must be doing something right with feeding them.
Yes raw feeding like a Barf diet is wonderfull if you have the time, prepared dog food is a lot better then years ago. The dog that passed at over 18 years of age was fed most of her life on Proplan chicken and rice along with fresh meat and veggies etc. I'd like to know where you got the research and how authentic and accurate the research is to say rice is no good. I've used cooked white rice when dogs have had diarreah to help there and found that wonderfull to help firm up stools. A bland diet of that and poached chicken when very rarely they got a bug with the runs before bringing back in after things have settled down there commercial dry food. Eagle pack Holisitic is formulated by Holisitic vets and contains rice as well, another great commercial dog food on the market as well. I use that one too, find switching between brands good for variety and believe in variety is the spice of life and they then dont build up an intolerance to a specific food, wether that be a commercial food or home prepared diet, feed both ways to them all. All of my OES over the years never any sensitive tummys, cast iron guts and able to eat anything. Must be doing something right, youngest passing away was just over 12, average over the years around 14, some made it to 16 and our special golden girl of 18 years and 1 week old when she finally passed away.
Plus as the previous poster said, it has to be also something your dog likes to eat especially if a fussy one, so what works for one might not work for another, it's all really trial and error to work out what suits your dog the best. |
| Sorry if I offended anyone, my research is continuous... but the rice and vitamin C is being researched by William D Cusick
http://home.att.net/~wdcusick/OldEnglishSheepdog.html as well as Merrick by human grade i meant it's guaranteed to be animals that were NOT rejected for human grade quality most dog food companies are allowed to use animals that have been rejected for you to eat due to tumors or hormones, cancers, left overs and other health issues. you can also check out www.healthy-k9.com for other information I'm just putting options out there, no offence to anyone. |
| Lovely. Both links are to sites where you have to pay for the information. I have to say I'm skeptical of these claims that ONE person is making about our breed, that to read the full information I have to pay to buy the book or the report. Sounds like someone is just trying to get us to buy stuff. Not to mention that no where does it state how this person is qualified to have made these judgements about our breed. Is he a vet? I dietician? A nut job that wants to fool us into spending our money? |
For $100 you can get ONE recipe  . You'd be better off joining a natural or raw food group on Yahoo and get free advice from people who have OES and feed raw or natural. Or come here, some of our members feed that way and would share info. |
| There's no issue with offense, it's just about being incorrect.
The thing that concerns me the most about the Cusick "research" is that there's no place I can find where he actually proves his own research on all the different breeds. He gives a sad list of resources that he quotes in his book (which, evidently, only take place in 24 pages out of an entire publication). He mentions referencing other books but if he uses that research from other sources, why is it not quoted as such? "For the Old English Sheepdog I recommend foods that are a blend of lamb, beef, beet pulp, wheat, corn, and potato. However, I feel you should avoid feeding a "bobtail" any ocean fish, poultry by-products, avocado, rice or soy." He feels? In order to have any credibility, I would like to see a study that shows where this information is coming from. How many OES did he test to come to these findings? To what was he comparing them to? What happened that led him to conclude that these foods where correct or incorrect? Is there a place in the book where he explains this? I skimmed it but couldn't find a place where he spelled out his methods. Even if he is working on other books now, all this research is almost 13 years old and he refers to studies done 25 years ago. As a side note, in all the time and research that I've ever done on OES, I don't recall them ever being considered retrievers with soft mouths? Can anyone else comment on this? Where is this guy getting his information from? I'm not trying to nasty or argumentative, but I do insist on thorough, correct information based on facts. |
| no fish this is a breed that brought up on fish, what would be the reason not to feed them fish????
Sorry I digress. |
| Animal Passionist, here is the link to the Yahoo OES Group that raw and natural feed, it's free you dont have to pay for information and made up of many that have had the breed for years and feed this way.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalOES/ Worth joining as it costs nothing for good advice and what is needed in their diets on feeding raw or natural in OES.
Jill never heard them called retrievers, mine retrieve and keep going LOL. soft mouth yes, that relates to herding or droving, like any herding/droving breed, suppose to go in and nip the cattle or sheep to get them moving with a soft mouth not a big hard bite. Not all have soft mouths in herding/working breeds but just a terminology used to decribe how they work the cattle and sheep, but relates to any working dog breed not only OES. Cattle dogs (Heelers) same terminology there also, either they go in too hard nipping the back of the stock they are moving or have soft mouths to move the stock on. I hope that is correct as that is what I think the terminology means as far as working/droving/herding breeds are concerned. |
| Lisa doesn't soft mouth have another conotation with retrievers? |
| Yes think it just means when retrieving the game, its brought back without being mangled up, soft mouth when retrieving/carrying game back in there mouths. |
kerry wrote: Lisa doesn't soft mouth have another conotation with retrievers?
Right. That's what Cusick referred to-- that OES had soft mouths because they were also retrievers. The toys around our house tell another story.  |
ButtersStotch wrote: kerry wrote: Lisa doesn't soft mouth have another conotation with retrievers? Right. That's what Cusick referred to-- that OES had soft mouths because they were also retrievers. The toys around our house tell another story. Having sporting breeds my whole life and doing field training with them -hard vs soft mouth is a huge deal. Hard mouthed retrievers are severely penalized both in real life and in field trials and hunt tests. No one wants their game (meal) all gnawed up by the dog retrieving it. 
I have never heard it used with herding breeds, however I only have 10+ years experience with them, vs 45+ with sporting breeds...... |
| Re: soft mouth in retrieving. I have books here on OES that describe them at being soft mouthed when "taught" to retrieve. Now I've never tried to teach any of mine to retrieve anything but a dumbell in obedience. But I can attest to the fact that that I have a dumbell with NO teeth marks in it. And yes, it has been used....hundreds of times at least. |
| WOW - I go through discs pretty quickly - they don't fly well when aerated |
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