Breeader info

Hi all;
Looking for info from anyone who might have dealt with "Barbs Lovable Old English Sheep Dog Puppies" in Belvidere, IL ???
Or any other suggestions for a breeder in IL, WI, IA, MI or IN ( driving distance) ??? Any help will be really appreciated. Thank you

Respond to this topic here on forum.oes.org

You've got a lot of choices in reputable breeders in that area! We always refer people to the Old English Sheepdog Club of America reputable breeder list first:

http://www.oldenglishsheepdogclubofamer ... ntral.html

I'm not sure who has puppies right now. I know Ken-Bear's doesn't right now but try Wigglebottoms-- I feel like I was told she may have a litter planned or on the way.

No new sweater link?

Maxmm wrote:

No new sweater link?

I was wondering who'd be first to point that out. (I double checked this time and probably forever will. :twisted:

)

I was hoping to see what was new at H&M this time.

ButtersStotch wrote:

Thank for the pointer - I have an email to Tarja already , it's just that we found this site and they have puppies right now.. I guess will wait for her input...

waiting for the right puppy from a good breeder is a good idea.

The name alone makes it sound like she's a backyard breeder. Actually, I just found the website--I don't see any health information or any kind of testing that she does on her dogs, which is a red flag in itself. Red flag number two is that none of these dogs seem to have been shown in conformation, which means they've never been judged to se if they're actually sound examples of the breed (among other things). It also looks like she has a lot of dogs and a lot of litters, which is never good. Whoever is doing the docking of some of the tails on her dogs made a mess, too.

Definitely hold out for an e-mail from Tarja, she'll steer you in the right direction.

HUGE red flag: Puppies due in early Nov. are from the same mother (Wendy) who had a litter in April of 2009. They only gave her 6 months off. And another litter from a different mother (Sophie) on Oct. 31, 2009.

Make no mistake: producing puppies is a business to these people. And the primary purpose of EVERY business is to make a profit. One way to maximize profits is to up production (which they seem to have the knack of doing). And another is to trim costs. It's already been pointed out that there is no information about health testing performed. I am sure that the breeder will tell you the vet has given everyone a clean bill of health, but that is not the same thing as screening for serious hereditary defects like hip displasia, which is painful for the dog and expensive for the owner and can be a reason to put a dog down at an early age. You may not care about the showing and championships. I understand that, but you should care very deeply about the health and well being of puppies being produced. Yes, those puppies have already been born and they deserve a good, loving home. The unfortunate thing is that by paying a good price for one of those puppies, you are providing more incentive for the breeders to keep their females with a litter at all times--not a good thing for the poor females, not a good way to ensure that you are doing a good job raising puppies to 10 weeks of age, not a good way to ensure you are providing all of the necessary medical screening (hips, eyes, thyroid, etc.). And if nothing else: not a good way to ensure that you are only producing puppies with good, sound, stable temperments. This is important as those will grow up to be dogs large enough to do serious damage if they are not stable, with a good temperment.

I don't know anything about these people at all, but the fact that they've turned out at least 3 litters this year, two from the same female raises a lot of flags for me. It suggests they care a lot about how much money they can make and not so much about the quality of puppies they produce.

Please do yourself a favor and wait for a puppy from a breeder who does his/her best to produce the healthiest, soundest puppies possible. Wait for Taraj.

I also think that breeder looks like a BYB, however I don't think that a breeder breeding a bitch twice in a row is a red flag. I haven't actually done it myself but only because circumstances weren't right not because it's unhealthy for the dog.

No, litter after litter is not healthy, but a bitch goes through the exact same hormonal changes every single heat whether they are bred or not and in fact they have a greater chance of pyometra NOT being bred because each heat cycle produces more cysts in the uterus which then burst and can cause infection and reduce fertility.

World reknowned reproductive specialist Dr.Hutchinson goes into lots of details about this in his seminars and all the articles he has published etc.

Willowsprite wrote:

Regardless of the opinion of this expert, it seems excessively cruel to force a bitch to whelp one litter after another. I agree with tgir, a good breeder wouldn't put their stock through back-to-back breedings any more than a woman would want to be pregnant every time she is fertile.

I'd run from this breeder as well. Nothing noted about health testing or pedigrees so you can check for problems in the lines. Will these people be there as a resource for the life of your dog? Just because they say they are nice friendly dogs it doesn't mean they should be breeding them.

And pregnancies surely exact a certain toll on the mother, and present their own risks.

I am sure that there are circumstances when it would be acceptable to breed a bitch as soon as she comes into season after a litter, but that, coupled with another litter from a different bitch and no indications of any health screening other than the usual vet well puppy check, it seemed like a big red flag that screamed: We're turning out puppies just as fast as we can.

Of course, I could be wrong about the breeder. I admit that I have been guilty of purchasing from a couple of breeders who really shouldn't have been breeding, once because of my own impatience. Do I love those dogs any less? Not at all, but there have been some issues that could have been avoided by a more careful and more knowledgeable breeder. I know that Willowsprite and Maggie McGee are both exceptionally knowledgeable.

OESCA's code of ethics says to skip a cycle.

Quote:

Bitches should skip a season between litters and not be bred in two consecutive seasons except on the specific advice of a veterinarian.

It really disappoints me when I find that a breeder, OESCA or BYB, has bred their bitches two consecutive cycles.

There's a BYB in Michigan that had been breeding each cycle. :evil:

But there are others that skip cycles because they know it's best for their bitches to recover from the stress of pregnancy and raising a litter of pups.

6Girls wrote:

OESCA's code of ethics says to skip a cycle.

Quote:

Bitches should skip a season between litters and not be bred in two consecutive seasons except on the specific advice of a veterinarian.

It really disappoints me when I find that a breeder, OESCA or BYB, has bred their bitches two consecutive cycles.

Assuming its not on the advice of the veternarian? :twisted:

I really think we need to be careful when we start to broad stroke in terms like OESCA or BYB - as if there are not responsible breeders who are not OESCA recommended, for reasons we do not understand.

I also do believe there are some OESCA member breeders who may be questionable.

6Girls wrote:

OESCA's code of ethics says to skip a cycle.

Quote:

Bitches should skip a season between litters and not be bred in two consecutive seasons except on the specific advice of a veterinarian.

It really disappoints me when I find that a breeder, OESCA or BYB, has bred their bitches two consecutive cycles.

There's a BYB in Michigan that had been breeding each cycle. :evil:

But there are others that skip cycles because they know it's best for their bitches to recover from the stress of pregnancy and raising a litter of pups.

Jaci, Willowsprite is correct re best/most current medical knowledge re breeding (see above).

Every red flag that has been raised about this particular breeder is also right on target. BUT there are reasons to breed a bitch back to back, if you plan to have more than one litter, depending on the situation. Doing it continually takes its toll, but you don't condemn a breeder out of hand for having two litters out of the same bitch in one year.

My own vet has been changing her recommendations some over the years. Now, many of us don't have the time and energy etc etc to breed a bitch more than once anyway. Or maybe you wait a couple of years, see if you like what you got (or didn't) and try something different or...? Or we wait to breed them till they're older (guilty) because we don't want to have a litter till we're ready for another dog ourself. Whereas having a couple of back to back litters when they're 2-3 is probably the healthier thing to do for the bitch. Then you can spay her.

You may wait to breed a bitch till she's six. A maiden bitch at that age? Chances are you're lucky to get a pup or two. So you may breed her again quickly on the next cycle, a) before it's too late and b) while she's hormonally primed if you will. I guess what I'm saying is that it's not one size fits all and we can't condemn people out of hand if we don't know the full story.

Just a sidenote: you don't "force" bitches to be bred (well, I suppose you do if you're doing AIs and surgical inseminations) If bitches had to be forced to be bred, we wouldn't be out there preaching spay/neuter, right? :wink:

Left to their own devices, most healthy bitches left with a healthy intact male (or two) would probably have a litter every season for a number of years. Their choice. Not ours. I get exhausted just thinking about it.

Anyway, like I said, otherwise, this is a no-brainer regarding this breeder. No health testing = run!! OESCA breeder referral is a much safer bet.

Kristine

Quote:

Bitches should skip a season between litters and not be bred in two consecutive seasons except on the specific advice of a veterinarian.

OESCA says it should only be with a vet's specific advice.

Quote:

I still agree.

Quote:

I also do believe there are some OESCA member breeders who may be questionable.

We've all been taught to tell people to only buy a puppy through an OESCA breeder. If Kerry is correct, we have to be careful to say that it's a place to start and not a stamp of approval.

Quote:

Their choice to do the deed. But their choice to have puppies? Isn't this raging hormones at play rather than a bitch's decision to carry and raise litters of pups?

6Girls wrote:

Their choice to do the deed. But their choice to have puppies? Isn't this raging hormones at play rather than a bitch's decision to carry and raise litters of pups?

Well that's putting a very human spin on it isn't it? the problem I see is everyone is assuming a single back to back breeding equates to everytime they are fertile.

not the same thing.

Well, I'd say the poster definitely got her answer.

Have you heard back from Tarja, yet?

Okay, since the some feel the bitch's feelings are irrelevant, how many breeders would be truly be capable of handing several litters on the ground in one year? :lmt:

6Girls wrote:

Their choice to do the deed. But their choice to have puppies? Isn't this raging hormones at play rather than a bitch's decision to carry and raise litters of pups?

Since I doubt bitches are any more cognizant of the consequences of their hormomes than your average idiot teenager :wink:

I suppose you could make that argument. But the fact is that nature programs critters to reproduce and nature doesn't make too many mistakes over the long haul.

The whole "forcing them to breed" is your basic animal rights rhetoric at work. Clearly, most don't have to be forced to do anything, but rather forced NOT TO. IF they conceive, once they've given birth, they do have choices. (And if stressed enough - i.e. including not well taken care of they can easily reabsorb the puppies, not be fertile etc - not a conscious choice, just nature's way of protecting the bitch) If they don't enjoy motherhood (and, believe me, I've known a number of bitches who are never happier than when they have a litter - some who will step in and help other dams raise theirs - others who just really treat it as another part of life, happy to move on after) they can eat their young. Or kill them by rolling over on them. Or worse.

Most bitches do not because such mothers tend not to pass on their rather less than maternal genes, for obvious reasons. Well, at least not without serious, exhaustive and really not very bright, human intervention. Well, OK, the first time mom not realizing they can crush a puppy is one thing. But truly savage mothers. Nope.

Hard as it is for us to accept, they are dogs, genetically hardwired to do certain things, without the moral recriminations or deliberations of our species.

That doesn't mean I agree with breeding a bitch over and over again for years on end. But, like most things in life it's not as cut and dry as "never do this" or "this always means that". Even the code of ethics references the exception upon a vet's recommendation. And some vets will recommend back to back breedings in some circumstances.

In fact my Liz wasn't bred till she was six. She had one puppy. Vet told her breeder she should breed her again the next season. She had two puppies. She is now spayed and no worse for the wear for having been bred back to back as opposed to waiting another year to have another litter and her breeder has not been forced to paint a black X on her forehead or anything for her misdeeds :wink:

You have to use some common sense.

Kristine

Maggie McGee IV wrote:

how many breeders would be truly be capable of handing several litters on the ground in one year? :lmt:

Depends on the breeder, doesn't it?

Me, one litter every five years is too much to contemplate. :wink:

Someone who stays at home all the time? I don't know. You'd have to ask them. Every situation is different. Yet we're forever trying to enforce one-size-fits-all-rules. Why, I really don't know.

Doesn't negate the fact that the breeder in question has no known club affiliations that would suggest they are serious students of the breed, nor, more importantly from a pet owner's point of view, is there any hint of health testing. As a pet buyer, THAT would truly concern me more than anything else.

Kristine

Quote:

Yet we're forever trying to enforce one-size-fits-all-rules. Why, I really don't know.

We are each entitled to our opinion and don't need to be trounced on when a differing view is expressed. My statement had nothing to do with rules other than what the national breed organization publishes in their breeder's code of ethics and my own personal opinion...

Quote:

It really disappoints me when I find that a breeder, OESCA or BYB, has bred their bitches two consecutive cycles.

There will always be differing opinions based on our own knowledge and experiences... whether it's training, the "right" time to spay/neuter, breeding, etc. Even some things based on the newest, most current scientific facts also can change in a few years.

Maggie McGee IV wrote:

Okay, since the some feel the bitch's feelings are irrelevant, how many breeders would be truly be capable of handing several litters on the ground in one year? :lmt:

I don't want to prolong this - but I never said the bitch's feelings were irrelevant. I did point out we don't necessarily know what they are and that it is dangerous (in any situation) to ascribe human feelings and qualities to our dogs.

how many breeders would be truly be capable of handing several litters on the ground in one year?
As I never get sleep anyway (having a toddler and several dogs & cats), I have to admit that I am almost always ready to be in puppy mode. At least then I have a reason for the lack of sleep and crazy house! lol Each litter is a ton of work but I would rather put a ton of time and energy into puppies than say, laundry :twisted:

Of course, me wanting to be in puppy mode is not the same thing as my family (son and dogs) ready to be in puppy mode! Out of the two bitches I currently have that are cleared & ready to breed, I average 1 litter (total between the two) a year. Still, we find reasons to use our breeding 'equipment'. (I have to say the washable 'pee' pads have been extremely useful while I find a way to stabilize Mojo from having seizures).
I have also heard the research regarding pro-back-back breedings/getting through the breeding 'season' faster. If you want to anthropomorphize, imagine a human mother. Most would say they would rather have their kids close together in age than draw out the number of years in baby mode. Still, I have never bred back-back. Rowan has large litters for a pug so they take a lot out of her. Sidney could have had another litter after Ikoka (1 puppy did not even faze her physically) but by ten weeks she was pretty frustrated with him. (I can't blame her - we ALL were!)

Mad Dog wrote:

Since I doubt bitches are any more cognizant of the consequences of their hormomes than your average idiot teenager :wink:

I suppose you could make that argument. But the fact is that nature programs critters to reproduce and nature doesn't make too many mistakes over the long haul. Kristine

Absolutely true! All nature cares about is passing on genetic material in order to ensure survival of the species.

Nature doesnt care about whether a bitch will live a long and healthy life as long as some of the pups survive to breed then that's ok by mother nature.
dogs for so many generations that it is quite possibly irrelevant.

Its a strain on a bitch to have litters (especially largish ones) year after year after year but BYB dont plan to keep a bitch till she's 10 plus years old so its not a biggy for them.

One back to back mating isnt going to have a huge impact on a bitch's health. And as Kristine pointed out there are even good reasons for going ahead with such a mating. The strain of carrying and rearing puppies can be mitigated too with good nutrition and care. Farmers of cows, sheep etc do that. A calf a year for the diary cows where I grew up was the go. But with good food and care they were healthy.

I agree with Kristine its more important to consider the breeders knowledge about the breed and whether they're choosing to breed for the betterment of the breed as well as the conditions in which the pups are reared. Its too easy to apply a one size fits all solution.

Anyway enough of my blather, time for some breakfast.

ButtersStotch wrote:

Well, I'd say the poster definitely got her answer.

Have you heard back from Tarja, yet?

Yes - I did - Wigglebottoms... not sure if they still have them and I'm not sure if this is "driving distance" from Chicago, but will inquire.. Any other suggestions for MidWest will be appreciated..

sarunia wrote:

ButtersStotch wrote:

Well, I'd say the poster definitely got her answer.

Have you heard back from Tarja, yet?

Yes - I did - Wigglebottoms... not sure if they still have them and I'm not sure if this is "driving distance" from Chicago, but will inquire.. Any other suggestions for MidWest will be appreciated..

She's about 5 hours out of Chicago but I know she'll ship, too.

Sarunia, please forgive us... we all go off on a rant sometimes because
we're passionate about this breed. We sometimes have differing opinions.

The Wiggle Bottom website can be found here-
http://www.wigglebottomfarm.com

Would it be Pippin having pups or Emily Ann?
Pippin's my favorite but both are lovely. :hearts:

All 5 of my OESs have flown to me... the only problem was the wait :wink:

I believe that website is out of date - as far as I know she rehomed Dumplin after the litter she had at the same time Reba had the litter Morgan is out of.

She has a numbe of other dogs at this point - doesn't she?

6Girls wrote:

All 5 of my OESs have flown to me... the only problem was the wait :wink:

It's Pippin.

The web site is out of date but her contact info should still work.

You're probably right, Kerry. And I don't believe I've ever seen any
pictures of current puppies available on her website. So be sure to drop
her a note or give her a call... contact info is at the top of her home page.

ButtersStotch wrote:

It's Pippin.

Oooooh!!

Goodness... she's a lovely girl.
I want one! :lol:

sorry guys - isn't Pippin a boy?

Quote:

They showed Pippin to his championship!.

Well... he could still be the papa!

6Girls wrote:

:lol:

Well... he could still be the papa!

could be

I have been following a bit and don't have anything to add

except those pups are darn cute and I would love to live on that
farm!!

I talked to one of the breeders (From the Breeder referral list) from Indiana on Saturday and she has puppies.
Sometimes they don't update Tarja in a timely manner.

The folks next door had large breed dogs that were bred and sold throughout the year. I guess the females didn't know when to say no because thier teats were dragging so low to the ground they rubbed raw.

Nature obviously forgot to tell them what might happen if they continued having fun without using their so-called natural contracepatives...! And in nature, many pups would die, so their would be less to nurse. We know that breeders often have to asisst struggling pups so thye survive.

Humans control the dog's ability to procreate, so yes, I see them as being forced to produce so the owners could pocket some cash.

Back to back breeding might not be bad in all cases, as the bitch's do not have to "stretch out" all over again, each time, but certainly takes a toll on their health. They loose sleep, coat and fat while nursing pups.

Maxmm wrote:

I talked to one of the breeders (From the Breeder referral list) from Indiana on Saturday and she has puppies.
Sometimes they don't update Tarja in a timely manner.

I believe I might have told her to check with that breeder already :wink:

6Girls wrote:

Quote:

They showed Pippin to his championship!.

Well... he could still be the papa!

Pippin is the sire. He is still male. I think the poster is, too.

Quote:

He is still male

He's gorgeous.
Yeah, I used a girlie term to describe him too.

Just Curious......have any of you bashing this breeder bothered to pick up the phone and ask your questions??? You'd be surprised at all of the information given about the history and health of her pups, and much much more. She is a wonderful breeder who beyond loves and cares for her dogs and its sad that your posts could potentially steer people away from her and a wonderful experience. Your information is solely based on assumptions from her web site(which I believe is put together nicely) Anyone can put health info on a website.....does that make it true? Barb is very personable and if anyone had taken the time to call her you would get the info your looking for.

Was this missed.........................

Our puppies are raised, loved, hugged & pre-spoiled in our home along with their parents. Guaranteed health & temperament, bred for quality pets, references available. AKC, Vet checked, dewclaws removed, tails docked, shots & worming will be up to date. We are located in Belvidere, Illinois.
If you think you would be interested in adding one of our puppies to your family, please give me a call. I'm sure you have many question for me, about our puppies and their parents. I have several questions I like to ask of all potential puppy parents. I want to make sure that owning an Old English Sheep dog will be a good match for your family.
I do my best to keep all of our extended family members (our Clients) well informed as to how mom is progressing. After the puppies are born I keep in close touch with weekly updates and pictures of the puppies.. My goal is to make this a pleasurable, rewarding experience for the whole family ! Good communications between client and the breeder is essential.
I welcome and encourage all puppy parents to come to meet us in person. I feel you can make a more informed choice about your breeder in person. You will meet the parents of the puppies and see first hand. That they are healthy and well bred themselves.
Our females are always pre checked before we breed them, by our veterinarian.
We do ship occasionally,* I've had clients as far away as New York, and Virginia who have travled here to meet us, and pick up their babies. References are available to all serious clientele. Seeing we advertise on the Internet I find posting personal information isn't a good idea. So please feel free to call, I enjoy talking about our wonderful Old English Sheep Dogs.
We would love to add you to our extended family !
Wishing you many warm wet puppy kisses !!

*We only ship on direct flights !! We don't ship out of the country as the flights are to lengthy. I feel that would be to traumatic for the puppy !

I don't really care to read through all of what was previously said but, was wondering what it is you are trying to point out on this two year old post?
I am pretty sure what you quoted can be found on just about any web site selling puppies...just pointing that out!
I do not know anything about the breeder.

I do know this Breeder.....
This is a GREAT BREEDER. Barb does not give a lot of facts about
her dogs on her website because she wants to talk to the people
that want a pup from her. She only breeds well proven lines and
can show them to you.... Mother, Father, Grandparents, Great Grandparents,
etc. She can show you pups from each generation that is now grown,
healthy, and drop dead beautiful. I am waiting for a pup from one
of her females that comes from a World Champion. She knows so
much about breeding OES because she has done it for quite sometime.
To get a pup from her you have to go on a waiting list and wait.....
But it is so worth the wait. I have seen and I know several people
that have dogs from her and all of them are extremely happy with
their dog. Just look at her pups, they are the perfect example of
what an Old English Sheepdog should be. When you visit her home
to check out her adults the only caution is beware of all the doggie
kisses. If anyone is considering a pup from Barb just know it will
be one of the best you will ever find. ONE OF THE BEST !!!!!! :wag:

You know, I'm sorry that I hadn't seen this post before. I think I was on a hiatus when it originally was posted several years ago. Barb is my breeder, I got both Asterisk and Wendel from her. And yes, they are pet quality dogs and not show dogs, but they are the sweetest, most loving dogs, and I am so grateful that I have them. They are both happy, well-balanced dogs with no health problems.

I am not going to get into an argument about breeders, it's just not worth the energy. I do love Barb and she has always been helpful and readily available for any and all questions I have had over the years. Josh and I have visited her several times with Asterisk, Wendel, and even Levi and she has been so happy to see how the dogs are doing.

I've nothing more to say, but just wanted to comment.

Wouldn't it be nice to see PEDIGREES on their web site showing all the Champions and to be able to look up OFA and CERF testing on these dogs? That would go a long way in giving credibility to this breeder, although finding someone new to do tail dockings would be helpful, too.

Nita, YES yes yes and yes!!!

I'm sure this is a lovely person with lovely dogs. I'm sure many many
people are quite happy with her dogs. I don't think those
things have been the issues at all, in any of these posts. Additional
info, or proof of anything; ofas, cerfs...etc, would go a long way. I think
that is more along the line of our (or at least my :oops:

) concerns.

Just for the record, we have been replying to someone who brought
up "Breeder info" and had questions. And as far as I can tell, we've given
our opinions good, bad and indifferent. Isn't that the point of all this anyway?

Maybe the guest necroposter just needs to read more in our forum to see
what a great place we have here and that we're not just breeder bashing.
Or not.

Shellie

Hello, I'm a little late in posting my reply to the question regarding Barb's Loveable Old English Sheepdogs. My computer was struck by lightning, so I've been out of touch! This is my first posting to this sight. I love the website and appreciate all the info. Now, regarding Barb's OES. I purchased an OES from Barb. He, Kirby, is now 1yr. old. He is beautiful! I spoke with Barb several times before driving to her home to get Kirby when he was 7wks. old. This is the first puppy of any kind I had ever purchased from a breeder. I was pleased with the way Barb handled everything and treated me. She was very good about (and still is) answering any of my questions. She feeds the dogs nothing but the best foods. Her home was set up to accomodate the mommie and puppies from birth until time for them to go to their new homes. As a novice, I could see nothing wrong with anything. Maybe I wasn't looking for the right things, but everything seemed fine with me. I have received nothing but good comments from everyone who meets Kirby. They simply love him. :kiss:

Barb seems very knowledgeable about the OES breed. It appears she has several females that she breeds. Kirby's mommie was Lola and his daddy was Harry. As far as I know, Kirby is fine. He has been at the vet on a regular basis and my vet seems very pleased with him. I don't know if Barb is registered with the OES, but Kirby is AKC and I have all his paperwork. All in all, everything seemed on the up and up to me. Barb also, has many pics. on her site of all the puppies present and past. You can see Kirby on there as well!!! I hoped I have helped in some small way.

very good responses.

I can say that if you have a bitch that has had pyrometria or another hormonal problem, a good repro vet (Hutch, or mine here 3 of them) ALL say to breed back to back, then spay. If you don't breed after a pyo you can get it again and could lose the bitch! Fortunately ( :wink:

on wood, i haven't had a bitch with pyo and pray i never do.......... but again something to think about.

And there are responsible breeders that are not in OESCA anymore, yes I am one of them by MY own choice. I can give you names of 3 or 4 others that have left!

I purchased a puppy from Barb's Lovable OES. Litter born 11/09/12. Many problems. I took the pup at 8 weeks, had him checked by my vet and he had hook worms even though the breeder claimed the litter had been wormed starting at 2 weeks of age. Breeder basically called my vet incompetent!

Was concerned about my dog's hips at 8 months. Had an x-ray taken and his hips are a mess. Breeder denies any responsibility and blames ME!!!

This breeder is very defensive, puts all the blame on others and accepts no responsibility.

DO NOT buy from this breeder.

This is a follow up posting of Barb's Lovable Old English Sheepdogs. I purchased a male from this breeder and recently posted that an x-ray at 10 months revealed serious problems. He has sever hip dysplasia, in fact I'm taking him to an orthopedic specialist next week. I had my veterinarian send this breeder his report of the x-ray and the prognosis for short and long term health. This information was sent certified mail and she didn't even have the decency to respond.

A follow up email revealed that she has blocked my email address. So I spent $1000.00 on a dog with severe hip problems and she won't even acknowledge the problem or make any effort to remedy the situation.

I would advise any prospective buyers to seek out other breeders.

Glen from Wisconsin

The last I heard, Barb Neer of Barb's Lovable Old English Sheepdogs, had retired from breeding OES. Has anyone heard otherwise? There were two of her dogs that owners wanted to return but she claimed she was disabled herself and no longer in the business. This has been some time ago so hopefully good homes were found for these displaced sheepies.

Nope, I have actually had several email communications with her and she is not retired. She has a new female who will be bred soon. Barb has been nothing but gracious and kind as well as having provided former puppy owners to talk to. She is top on my list for our next puppy should they arrive on time!

We recently purchased a puppy from Barb's lovable. We could not have been more excited to bring our puppy home. I met Barb, and her dogs while the mom dog was pregnant with my future puppy. It was a great first experience, and Barb was knowledgeable and seemed like she took great care of her dogs. I put my deposit down right away, and anxiously awaited my puppy. To make a long story short, the experience could not have gone more horribly wrong after that. After love at first sight with our sweet puppy and taking her home, we could tell on day 1 that she was not healthy. She couldn't keep down any fluids, and after taking her to a reputable vet we found out that she had mega-esophagus. Basically, her esophagus hadn't formed correctly, and we were told she would never really live a normal life, it would likely be a short life, and she would be prone to pneumonia or other illnesses. The vet said if this was her puppy, she would bring her back to the breeder. It was devastating news. After letting Barb know that we needed to bring her back, we were treated absolutely terribly. It was refreshing to read that others experienced the same treatment by Barb. She did NOT believe our vet, and said there was nothing wrong with our puppy. She said she couldn't wait to bring the puppy to HER vet and call us to rub it in our faces when her vet said the puppy was just fine. She somehow made it seem like we were terrible people, and even said she wished she never even sold to us, as if we had done something wrong. We absolutely loved our puppy, so to have to give her back was awful, but then to be treated as villains by the breeder made a heart breaking situation even worse. I would advise anyone reading this to go another direction if you're looking for a puppy. While I still believe Barb takes care of the dogs well, she does not treat the human clients nearly as kindly. We did not deserve the awful treatment we received from Barb, and if you want nothing but a pleasant experience in bringing home your puppy, then Barb's Lovables is not the way to go.

what an AWFUL experience!! I'm so, so sorry to hear you had such a terrible time with your poor pup. Hopefully you haven't been put off the breed, and you'll find another Sheepdog pup from a breeder that will help wash away this horrendous experience! :ghug:

I to bought a puppy in January of 2012 from Barb, long story short, my ANNIE has Hip Dysplasia and starting showing signs at 1yr old. We are now in the process of shots for her but where told a hip replacement is in her future. We love her and will do whatever is necessary. Wish I had found this sight before I purchased from her. Very sad

Michelle S wrote:

I am so sorry to hear that news. Please look into water therapy for her. I know that some people here have had great success with it. I don't know where you live, but I am linking a place that we have here, just to give you an idea of what can be done. Take a look at the video, again, just to get an idea. Let us know how it goes, we will be keeping our fingers and paws crossed that things go well. :crossed:

We liked Barb immediately but when there were problems with our dog she didn't help us.
Also heard that there might be genetic issues with her pups.

I purchased from here great breeder I believe she retired since I am the one that boght from her to "take over after she retired. I am in Louisiana about to expect a littler of puppies in July feel free to contact me 561-512- 1162 her dogs have great genetics both my dogs have great confirmation and her contract says if there are genetic issues with he puppy that she will help you she is a great breeder tho like I said I pretty much took over for her.

Guest wrote:

Her contacts are very fair and she states in them to limit things that could damage hips over walking and stair climbing can cause this amoung other things you must limit jumping off couches most breeders will not cover negligence on your part my dogs hips from here are perfectly fine and she is a highly respected breeder in the community

Hello I a breeder of OES dogs hip displasia at a year can be caused by many factors inculdig being spayed or neutered earlier before those bone plates finish growing. Her dogs are tested and I have proof her dogs have good genetics. I am also studying to be a vet as well as a breeder. I have not seen better dogs from a breeder other then one and I do a lot of research. Please do research on causes and how to avoid young dogs getting them which 76% of the time is negligence.

Just reading this post from years ago and I believe 'Another Guest' above is mistaken. Barb Neer bred OES as Barb's Shaggy Clowns in Ohio. She is reportedly retired now. Barb's Lovable Old English Sheepdogs is Barb Turvold in Illinois, who I heard was still breeding OES.

I don't believe either breeder did the minimal health testing on their dogs. The nicest breeder on the phone is not always the better breeder. Do your homework and ask lots of questions. Be patient. A good breeder doesn't produce litters constantly. There are plenty of posts on this forum with great advice on puppy buying. Just do a search.

Hello I am actually the person she is mentoring and she is in fact going to be retiring I currently have the only breeding rights from her and I know her very well. My vet has all good things to say about her contracts and breeding techniques. I had thought she retired but she will be soon I was mistaken I just got off the phone with her. She is nothing but kind and very good to her dogs and does the best for them. She also is very clear in her contracts about health problems but I will let her defend her self since she was not aware how many people were saying these negative things.

My reply to the question regarding Barb's Loveable Old English Sheepdogs, sorry, just reading these posts. We purchased our beautiful old English Sheepdogs from Barb Turvold-Barb's Loveable OES after our 13-14 year old OES died. in August 2012 after visits from Wisconsin, we took Lola, age 5 and her pup, "Sweetie"-Gabby to to drive home. They are wonderful pets and companions. They are healthy, happy and try to protect our grandchildren as well as all the children in our neighborhood. They have not been registered for show but, they are show dogs, other than Gabby's overbite which is barely noticeable. They love stuffed animals and they still have bear and piggy, and blankets that Barb and her husband sent with them. I have referred many friends to Barb and they love their dogs as we do.
As for health...you should see Lola run after her horse ball when Gabby takes it...hilarious. So when we go to get another OES, we will call Barb and Jerry T-first. They take good care in their home of their dogs. :wag:

Maureen and Terry 7 all...

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