need help with newborn pups
my girl gave birth to 8 healthy pups... but apparently she is not a god mom... so... i have 2 more pups left  she doesn't want to feed them..
they are now 4 days ... any formula (milk) for so little pups? what if they don't tolerate the formula and they start having diarheea ? help please |
|
|
| You really need to consult a vet. If there is no vet around you maybe there is another breeder)of any breed) that can help you. |
| unfortunately... the vet told me that i have to separate the pups from mom and bring them every 2 hours and stay there to feed them.. he said there is no other way... i do have a friend breeder but she told me the same.. + she doesn't have for the moment any other bitch like foster mom.... so....?? |
| What is the mom doing that you must seperate them from her? Does she have milk? You need to sit there and put each pup on a teat and make sure they all feed until they are full. I will need more details in order to try to give advice. |
| I'm asking the same question too, why are the puppies not with mum?
If any chance of her bonding with them and taking a maternal interest then taking them off her and just bringing them to her every 2 hours makes no sense at all. Check her teats and see if there is milk flowing now, put all the puppies in the box with her, let her lick and snuggle with the pups and you assist each pup onto a teat. Make sure each one is on correctly with them sucking well with not taking in air that they have a firm grip on the teats. Also sometimes too much interference with the mum can make her take no interest in the pups, so you have to let her have all of them with her. Sometimes first time mums need help for a few days till the maternal traits kick in. Not letting her have them around her 24/7 then she will never learn or have interest in her pups. If you have to hand rear some then a special puppy milk formula is required, no cows milk as you will give them severe diarreah. The vet should have for you an appropriate milk substitute if needed to supplement them. |
| I hope you get the pups and mum to bond I am sure it is the best way..x |
| 1. she does have milk (the vet checked)
2. whe the pups are trying to feed she starts showing her teeth + hyperventilate + she moves her back feet showing discomfort ( smth like .. take this away .. i'm getting angry)... 3. i've succeded to put them to teat .. by keeping her head and my daugher heeping the pups to feed ... but i don't think it's a long term solution.. 4. she suffocated 3 pups ... under my eyes.. she just moved and sit and she did'n wanted to move away no matter that the pups were crying... so i'm terrified that if i'm not there .. she might do the same with the 2 left or worse.. she might get angry and just bit them... that is why i'm thinking about a formula for the night at least.... cos i won't be able to do the "stay away - feed the pups" sport for the next 2 weeks... thanks aki |
| one more thing
the vet over here ((.. is generally skilled for cows, sheeps... pigs...
over here meaning Romania ( i've even went to the vet medical university in order to find a much more skilled vet..) so whatever they suggest is the result of an internet browsing .. and this i can also do.. that is why i seeking help by myself... this morning .. the vet suggested that i shoud give her some oxytocin ( the 6'th day after birth) ... even thow she does have milk ... and i didn't because it does seem stupid ( i'm an md myself so i do have some knowledge about oxytocin + prolactin... etc) |
| They should do an xray to make sure there are no pups in there. There might be a dead puppy still in there which will cause pain and her being so agitated and also eventually infection and possibly death. |
| i doubt there's a puppy left inside... she seems quite ok .. when she's not with her pups.. if she's hearing the front door she's ready to go for a walk .. jump and play with my other dogs... but when the pups are crying she's lying under the kitchen table ..pretending that she's asleep:(( |
Quote: she might do the same with the 2 left or worse So you only have two living pups left? Quote: but when the pups are crying she's lying under the kitchen table ..pretending that she's asleep
The behavior to me indicates she's abandoned her pups. If several puppies have already died, I would personally pull the pups. To the breeders on the forum... can goat's milk be substituted? DO NOT feed this until you hear from the pros here. Please don't breed again until you have a truly knowledgeable mentor to help you every step along the way. I'm afraid your female may have now learned that having puppies is a bad thing. The goal should be to produce puppies sound in temperament and health. Puppies learn so much from their mother and these pups aren't going to have that benefit. |
| .. yes it seems to the same.. it's like pregnancy was some sort of indigestion for her.. maybe she's too young ( 3yrs old)...
and trust me... no breed again!!!! regardind the formula... there's only one type i can buy ...bosch puppy milk .. but i don't know the ingredients ( there's nothing written on the can).. i was thinking about a home made formula maybe... if the bosch milk is not good |
aki wrote: hi,
my girl gave birth to 8 healthy pups... but apparently she is not a god mom... so... i have 2 more pups left she doesn't want to feed them..they are now 4 days ... any formula (milk) for so little pups? what if they don't tolerate the formula and they start having diarheea ? help please 2 she smothered??? What happened to the other 4??? Just wondering.... sorry you are having so many problems with this....  |
| Did the vet check her to make sure she doesn't have mastitis? If she has really red, hot teats, she might have an infection. This is very painful for the bitch and will also make her lose interest in her pups. If she has mastitis, she'll need antibiotics.
I believe you can substitute goats milk but check w/other breeders. You'll need a heating pad for the pups if you separate them from mom. You'll also might have to stimulate them to go to the bathroom. 3 is not too young to breed. My bet is that she has an infection of some sort - either mastitis or pyo - did you count placentas when she delivered? Good luck! There is nothing more heartbreaking than losing pups! :-/ |
| Please check into goat's milk. I have an OES that's going to be 5 years old the end of this month that was born with a cleft palate and harelip. She had to be tube fed. After the breeder ensured she got her mother's colostrum, I believe she was raised on goat's milk because she couldn't nurse. I don't know if she received anything else with it or if it was mixed with anything else.
Puppy Formula: Check the Leerburg website. There appears to be a very good recipe you can make to bottle feed puppies. http://leerburg.com/bottlefeeding.htm |
villarose wrote: I believe you can substitute goats milk but check w/other breeders. You'll need a heating pad for the pups if you separate them from mom. You'll also might have to stimulate them to go to the bathroom.
3 is not too young to breed. My bet is that she has an infection of some sort - either mastitis or pyo - did you count placentas when she delivered? Yes, I'm thinking something medical as well. A springer breeder just went through something similar. I forget what the issue turned out to be, but I think it may have been an infection of some sort. Calcium levels can also be an issue from what I understood from the discussion. Even though you don't have a good (dog) breeder vet at your disposal large animal vets are still probably better than some of the useless pet vets we have in this country who know nothing about reproduction. I would tell the vet you suspect an underlying medical problem and that you want blood work done on your girl as soon as possible. and what else would s/he suggest? I've used goat's milk to supplement, but never to raise a litter. They tolerate it fine, though I wonder if you need to add to it if that's their only source of food. The pups will definitely have to be stimulated at this age to get them to potty if mom won't touch them. So sorry you and your girl are going through this. Kristine |
| The Leerburg recipe includes goat's milk, sterilized water, raw egg yolk, regular yogurt (not low fat) and Karo Syrup. http://leerburg.com/bottlefeeding.htm
Quote: I have bred over 350 litters of GSD's in the 30 plus years of my breeding career. Over those years we have done our share of caring for newborns that need help. We have also come up with our own newborn puppy formula that I think is the best we have seen. |
| thanks for suggestions... and for the recipe
i don't think she have some infection... her temperature is fine... her nipples looks perfect .. milk is enough... the 2 pups left seem to prefer the very first 2 nipples close to the tail.. i've tried to change the nipple but they don't want to feed..how do i do that?? and my girl seem to be pretty sensitive in that area... maybe that is the reason.. she's licking the pups every single time they are trying to feed ... BUT .. if i'm there with her and i'm petting her in that area she seems fine...maybe i do have a chance that she will feed them a few more days.. cos i'm pretty sure that once they'll have teeth she will run away:) another question : if i do supplement with the bottle .. will the pups still want to breastfeed? .. or is it like for babies .. once they meet the bottle they abandon the idea of breastfeeding thanks again everyone |
| You can do both, pop them onto mum then next feed if you think they are not thriving, bottle them then with the next feed, you will have to also get a damp cloth or cotton wool and wipe the genetilia area to make them potty after a feed.
Sorry your down to 2 now, hope these babies make it. I would certainly still have mum looked at again by the vet, after the birth did you count 8 placentas ? If not she might be proned to infection from retained placentas. That can take a while for the infection to take hold and might explain why she is not herself. She may need a course of anti-biotics if you did not count 8 placentas after the birth. Might be the reason why the vet wanted to administer Oxytocin to clean her out after whelping if 8 placentas were not present after the birth. Most pups want the back nipples as they are the fullest and flow the easiest, you have to alternate on the nipples with the 2 of them so just pop them on another set on alternate feeds. If there not suckling on all nipples then you run the risk of your girl developing mastitis or blocked milk ducts. She needs all nipples to flow and that will only happen by alternating the pups each time. Also mum should be on more then her normal diet, 4-6 small meals a day and lots of fluid to keep the milk supply flowing. Water available to her constantly to keep up the milk production, she should be on a Puppy growth Kibble with her feeds as she needs the extra calories and calcium to maintain a good supply of milk. You can also let her drink either goats milk or even the puppy formula milk to maintain her calcium levels, even let her have yoghurt too, they like that as well. The goats milk formula is very successfull for feeding new borns and while they are developing if you are having trouble getting supply of a puppy formula. The pups wont be able to start on solids until about 3-4 weeks old, you can early wean them around that time but you have to also teach them to lap milk as they will still need milk feeds inbetween starting mushy solids for them. You can do that by dipping your finger in the bowl of milk and letting them suck on your finger, repeating the process gradually moving your milk coated finger towards the bowl then they should start lapping with a bit of help from you. With teeth they are still feeding off mum every few hours so regardless of popping teeth they still need milk feeds, wether that be you supplementing them or letting mum feed them. Best wishes with the remaining two babies hope it all works out well. So sad for you this has happened, but not knowing things can have a sad outcome. We are all here for you if you need any further advice or suggestions.  |
| hello
i think i might have an idea of what's going on.... and surprisingly in the last 12 hours her behavior changed for better .. i suppose it was smth like post-partum in humans .. she felt neglected (everyone was paying attention to the pups )... so i've started to ignore the pups .. i asked a few friends to come over for dinner and i allowed her to stay with us as she usually does ( to walk around and receive a treat from every one... etc).... and she went by herself to the pups!!!! so i had an easy night ... she fed them!! so i'm feeding her chichen soup + milk puppy (she seems to like it very much) thanks again for all the advices ... hope i will manage |
| AMAZING!!
if i bottlefeed her with the milk puppy she is paying attention to the pups.. she's feeding them .. liking.. everything.... afterwards .. she's moving outside the box and she waiting for her bottlefeed... you cannot imagine .... she was depressed the poor girl... but now she's ok .. and hopefully the pups will survive funny thing .. i've already have ordered goatmilk from a farm nearby... i suppose i will enjoy it myself:)) |
aki wrote: i've already have ordered goatmilk from a farm nearby... i suppose i will enjoy it myself:))
No need! Well, you can enjoy it too  , but you can also supplement her with it (bottle not necessary) as her caloric intake requirements will have gone way up when nursing. I actually supplement the dam with things like cottage cheese, but if I've giving the pups goat's milk, mom usually gets some too. Whatever you were giving her to cheer her up may have helped put her body back into balance so she felt she could better nurse the puppers. So glad things are turning around for the better. 
Kristine |
| question again
as in human babies there are some developement stages that you should be aware of ... in pups what is going to happen next - when are they able to urinate/defecate by themselves -when do they open they eyaes ... are they able to see? - when do they begin to walk ( not crawl) ... what i shoud monitor to check everything is fine? thanks again to all of you |
| I found the website http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/breeding to have many informative links. As far as your next post on tail docking, I know there is a protocol somewhere around here but can't seem to find it! I do remember that my vet wouldn't follow the protocol b/c it was more 'surgical' than he expected. Luckily Ikoka (Steve) seems perfect now but our experience was less than stellar. |
Didn't find exactly what you're looking for? Search again here:
Custom Search
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|