table performance illustrated
Step one: drive to table and stick it (Sybil): 
2) dog assumes whichever side handler is standing on is direction of travel following table (peeking at judge - NOT desirable  ).
3) drop immediately into a sphynx down: 
Your milage may vary, but having wasted much time in the ring arguing with prior dogs, I love this method. In USDAA it's always a down. In AKC it should be sit or down in roughly equal measure (50% of the time each) - though the table performance may be changing in the future. If it is a down, you have a quick position. If it is a sit you can quickly pop them up from a down, or, as they get more experienced, say sit as they approach the table. I stick to the former as I like the clarity for my dogs and can accept a one second or so delay in letting them down and then sit up on command half of the time. I don't know how well this would work in retraining a dog with table problems, but I can see firsthand how well it works in getting a nice table performance in a dog that's just starting out. I know some OES people train for an automatic sit, and that will work as well, but since it's harder to get a fast down in this breed, and many dogs have more of a problem with the concept of downing than sitting , this is still my preferred approach.
Just something to consider. Kristine |
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Reading my mind, girl! Thank you! Since we are just starting out & I have a boy who will willing sit or down but not fast (because he still remembers the light toe touch under the belly in the conformation ring  ) this will help us. I'm sure it would be easier for me to get him from a down to a sit than the opposite.  |
| Nice pictorial and table explanation.
Mad Dog wrote: many dogs have more of a problem with the concept of downing than sitting
Except those who think SIT is a FOUR LETTER WORD.  |
| Thanks for posting that Kristine, its helpful.
I will try it with Tiggy she used to be good at the table and look to me for the sit or drop command but lately she's decided to change careers and try for the circus, so a table is for running to and hopping on, doing a quick balance with all 4 feet really close together and then hopping off, a quick turn and repeat the process facing the other way, repeat each time your handler says table.
Oh and get a bigger grin on your face and do the whole process faster the more laughs you get from the other handlers. Sheesh!! |
SheepieMommy wrote: Mad Dog wrote: many dogs have more of a problem with the concept of downing than sitting Except those who think SIT is a FOUR LETTER WORD. See, this is where I think this whole reading program will come in handy for him. That and maybe a basic math class while he's at it. Dear Harry - DOWN - clearly a four letter word. SIT - not so much. Maybe he only got the not so much part  
No, not all dogs are the same. Liz much prefers to sit. Down really is a dirty word for her. Kristine |
Mim wrote: I will try it with Tiggy she used to be good at the table and look to me for the sit or drop command but lately she's decided to change careers and try for the circus, so a table is for running to and hopping on, doing a quick balance with all 4 feet really close together and then hopping off, a quick turn and repeat the process facing the other way, repeat each time your handler says table.
Oh and get a bigger grin on your face and do the whole process faster the more laughs you get from the other handlers. Sheesh!! Well, not rewarding for the inappropriate response (hopping on and off table as part of her circus act - all of mine go through that stage too) should eliminate it very quickly except when rewarded by well-meaning classmates who clearly are not aware that making people laugh ranks highly on many OES' high value reward list. Maybe not up there with steak, or better, yet, sheep, but pretty darn cool 
Mim, the reason I like the automatic down (you don't use ANY command except "Table" - Table means: run to table, jump on it and drop into a down. Yes, that one word means three things when you've finished training it) is that there is nothing for them to figure out. It's very clear to them what their job is. You lure the down in the beginning, you don't say table-down. They should know that there is NOTHING to think about. When I say table. you run, you jump up, you drop. With my last two, I would say Table-sit or Table-down and what I learned is that black & white is a very good color for OES (adult coat to the contrary) Not knowing which would be coming they would spin, they would look at me "do you mean it? are you sure you mean it? Because LAST time you said..." I don't want arguments, discussions or even doubt. When they know without question what you want, when they don't have to think about it, and don't feel inspired to second-guess you....life is so much better
That said, there's no reason you can't teach it with an automatic sit instead. I just like the down for several reasons. And, Marilyn, yes, I was kind of thinking about you when I saw these pictures. I didn't realize Tiggy had joined the circus in the interim <snicker> Kristine |
Adding in my 2 cents worth........ 
I listened to Kristine, as I am getting Chewie ready to compete - and he will be my 1st dog in agility beyond dabbling in it MANY yrs ago. Kristine said "teach it this way it will be much easier in the long run". Figuring I was not above learning from other's mistakes , this is the way I taught it to Chewie.
It was very easy to teach the table = down concept. He learned it very quickly.
As most are, he has a slower drop (like in obedience or rally). But with this method for the table, he flies up and skids into a down on the table a lot of the time. Otherwise he lands upright, then folds into the down. On rare occasions where he stands there, I give my grunt (sound) and he immediately drops - as he KNOWS he was wrong..... |
| Great guys!
Thanks for the advice. I am going to get DH to make up something that we can pretend is a table at home and train Tiggy to drop straight away. That way there is no audience for her to entertain.  |
Mim wrote: Great guys!
Thanks for the advice. I am going to get DH to make up something that we can pretend is a table at home and train Tiggy to drop straight away. That way there is no audience for her to entertain. Mim: I use my grooming table that has adjustable legs. I put it in the lowest postion to start. I'll have to find out what the AKC regulation height is. But for now (we have only had 2 classes) this works fine. |
| Marilyn, there are only two table heights applicable for our breed (AKC): 16" for the 20" & 16" jumping dogs, and 24" for the 24" dogs.
Kristine |
| Mmmm just got a grooming table. (Thanks Lisa)
Will have to see how adjustable the legs are and how sturdy the table is Tiggy is pretty enthusiastic and I'd hate to scare her if it tipped over. |
Mim wrote: Mmmm just got a grooming table. (Thanks Lisa)
Will have to see how adjustable the legs are and how sturdy the table is Tiggy is pretty enthusiastic and I'd hate to scare her if it tipped over.Yeah, that tends to be a real issue as they pick up speed and especially as they start practicing their circus act. Fortunately a table isn't that hard to make. Though a lot of people practice on a number of different types of "tables". The lower the table, the greater the stability, typically.
And congrats on your new grooming table!!! Mine aren't the least bit adjustable. Wish I had thought about that. Maybe next time. Kristine |
Mim - here's a picture of mine. It originally had PVC legs - but they crumbled.
These are metal, bought at the hardware store in the plumbing dept. It has prethreaded "legs" and I screwed mounting brackets that screw onto the ends on both ends. One end screws into the wood of the table, the other end keeps the pipe from sinking into the grass. |
| In class we normally just use the lowest height table - but when it comes to a trial or run through the differenc ein height doesn't appear to effect either of my guys, but then again, they both LOVE the table (could be all the special treats I used on that obstacle ) |
Here's another table design:
Jan G. has a somewhat similar design but hers is a little more lightweight (the wood part of it) and boy does my back appreciate that!!! She also make a complete PVC "box" instead of the legs just sticking up like mine, and though I haven't had any issues with mine, her design is sturdier. Lots of different ways to make a table and it need not be this involved. Dawn, yours looks nice and lightweight too, even with metal legs. What did you use for legs and how do they fasten to the table? Thanks! Kristine |
| Kerry, does CPE have a table, and, if so, what heights and what kind of performance?
(oh, yeah - and doesn't SOMEBODY have a brag? HM????)
Thanks! Kristine |
| CPE uses a table in the games classes (I have seen it in Full house (its the end target obstacle so to speak) and in Jackpot I think? I think DOCNA had a table as well. |
| Wow some clever ideas there.
I will show them to DH but he's really busy for the next little while so I'll have to be patient.  |
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