Anyone close to Arkansas?
http://www.swkennelauction.com/index_files/Auction3.htm Any help will be appreciated. |
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I wish I could help too. It was hard to tell from that list G/A had shared the actual count... it looked like some were being sold with puppies. Will rescue take all dogs if something is worked out? Makes me want to hop on a plane... and I've never flown in my life. 
Below is what Best Friends recommended for a dog auction that took place today in Ohio and the reasoning behind it. Quote: http://network.bestfriends.org/golocal/ ... ?pID=13311 "...Approximately 400 breeder dogs are slated to hit the auction block on October 07 and animal advocates are being asked NOT to purchase any of them. "To do so will only encourage future auctions," said Carol Araneo-Mayer, co-founder of Puppy Mill Awareness Day, and vice president of Adopt A Pet. Helen Ebersole, co-founder and board president of United Against Puppy Mills, agreed and noted that specific breed rescues have found that not bidding on dogs actually drives prices downward and helps discourage future auctions. "...Instead, advocates who are intent on traveling to Ohio are encouraged to wait in the parking lot and offer to take, free of charge, any dogs that did not sell since many breeders do not want to take unsold dogs back to their kennels...." |
| Good point Jaci!
I never realized when I lived in Ohio what a problem Puppy Mills were/are. When I go back to visit it is awful!!!!! I do belive the statement that "Wait Don't Buy" They will surrender afterwords.... It is so hard to see this going on but, if you buy they will see a demand and keep breeding!~ (BTW a deaf puppy I was trying to get his parents were sold to a "couple" in Lancaster, PA) So, hard!!!!! JMHO |
| It's the "dogs are property" thing you and I have talked about on so many
occasions. You can only help if they ask for help. Other than that, you have to step back and let it play out.  |
| I counted 21 oes in the list, so I must be reading it wrong. I wish there was someway that oes.org or I could help. Any thoughts? |
| One thing we can do is to stop playing into the hands of the AR by using undefined and squishy terms like puppy mill which can and has been applied to all breeders and I am sure would be quickly applied to some oes.org breeders.
And let's be glad the federal courts have confirmed that pets are indeed property under the law, as that is the only way we can be assurred someone who thinks we might have too many dogs or some other subjective benchmark cant come into our homes and remove them. |
| Ron, I don't think some of the puppies currently on the ground are all included. I too got 21 but some of the listings also indicate "sells with puppies". One lists "Sells with 4 female pups whelped 9/14/09." and another simply lists, "Sells with pups, whelped 9/20/09."
Sigh. Kerry, do you actively do rescue? You're looking at it from only a responsible owner's point of view. Your dogs are safe and well cared for and behind a door in your home. You're not considering neglected dogs that have no hope of getting out. Rescues have to turn their backs at times and say "dogs are JUST property" because we have no control over what someone does with them. A person who's bred a defective dog, sold the breeding pair parents so the insanity can continue, is now keeping the old unsold defective puppy out back in a small kennel. Changing pickup dates, changing their minds (yes, plural because sometimes I'd swear they have more than one), you'd be driving 8-10 hours to help this dog so you make plans, then are forced to remake them and yet again they change their mind at the last minute. But they don't care. When you have to turn away from helping dog because an ignorant or neglectful owner stands in the way, you'll understand the statement. For those actually doing rescue, it's indeed very unfortunate because their hands are often tied. Stronger, better defined, animal rights are needed if we are to be happy that dogs are simply property. |
 reading that list of dogs available just made me want to puke. Those poor puppies. I wish I had the money/time/space to take them all and love them all. blech. I was in a good mood before I read this! Bummed now because there is nothing I can do right now. I hate puppy mills. Can I get that tattooed somewhere???? |
| I did send an email to the seller last night. I asked if they'd contact me
if for some reason any of them don't sell and what they would require. I'm NOT buying these dogs, just would like them to have a contact if things don't work out. I doubt I'll hear back but... Betsy, will a rescue assist? Is anyone in Arkansas attending the auction? Quote: Can I get that tattooed somewhere????
See if they have a group rate. |
| Yes, OESRNSE is willing to help. Arkansas is our area, but unfortunately we do not have a volunteer there. We are ready and willing to go, just need some help in the area. I have tried to find Anne, who is a member here but not active, and I cannot find her number. She lives near Little Rock. |
| Ron, do you have any contact information you could share with Betsy privately?
Wondering if there are any all breed rescues that will be attending... but NOT buying. Does OESRNSE have any contacts in the area? Sometimes area rescues are willing to help out. |
6Girls wrote: Sigh. Kerry, do you actively do rescue? You're looking at it from only a responsible owner's point of view. Your dogs are safe and well cared for and behind a door in your home. You're not considering neglected dogs that have no hope of getting out. Rescues have to turn their backs at times and say "dogs are JUST property" because we have no control over what someone does with them.
That's really interesting, Jaci. How would guardianship help the animals you describe? Can you detail very specifically how this would work so we can carefully evaluate the benefits of guardianship versus pet ownership that Kerry must have missed because she's not in the trenches. Feel free to use this case an example, or pick another one of that better makes your case so we can truly understand the concept. Thanks! Oh, and by the way, the count I got was 31, I think, with litter counts. Please  tell me no OES rescue is going in there to buy them, or sending people in there to do so for them. They've got our number, you know. And I don't mean phone number:
http://www.kennelspotlight.com/Symbioti ... nships.pdf These auctions are typically crawling with rescue groups. If some of you do decide to go after the dogs, please at least refrain from starting a bidding war. It really, but REALLY sends the wrong message. Some allbreed rescue groups in WI are alreeady acting more like puppy brokers than rescues, scouring the Midwest for auctions like these, and I doubt the problem is confined to groups in this state. Ick.
Kristine |
| Yes I am looking at it from the point of view of an owner, while I still have the right to do so.
As for do "I actively "do rescue"", in NY, rescue people are falling over themselves and importing puppies to supply the demand they have created by pulling at people's heartstrings. Since there are what? less than 20 OES in rescue looking for homes in the country at the moment excuse me if I don't think this rises to the level of world hunger, youth violence in the inner cities, a double digit unemployment rate or the need to revamp health care in this country. Yes no dog should suffer, just like no child should be unwanted and unloved. |
OESRNSE would NOT be willing to purchase any OES. I asked if someone would be willing to attend on our behalf, so if no one purchased them we might be able to get them surrendered to us. I agree that bidding on the dogs simply gives the "breeder" the wrong idea. We do not need to encourage them by boosting their income. I only wish I were in a position to attend the auction myself.  |
| No one said anything about paying for these dogs, rather it was stated in the first post that they were discussing waiting to see if these dogs would be given away. While I do agree there is a big problem right now with all breed rescues paying for puppy mill dogs, I don't see how it relates to this circumstance.
I really don't understand why there is anything controversial about wanting to take dogs from unethical breeders who don't want them. If rescue can take them they will be altered and there will be no chance that these dogs will be used for breeding purposes which will protect the standard that breed advocates care about. |
kerry wrote: Since there are what? less than 20 OES in rescue looking for homes in the country at the moment excuse me if I don't think this rises to the level of world hunger, youth violence in the inner cities, a double digit unemployment rate or the need to revamp health care in this country. Yes no dog should suffer, just like no child should be unwanted and unloved.
There are 60 on petfinder right now. Not everyone uses petfinder and I have at least one experience with OES rescue simply not taking in a dog (who was nearly euthanized because of it). I'm not sure what this has to do with the original subject matter though. |
Lil Walty wrote: kerry wrote: Since there are what? less than 20 OES in rescue looking for homes in the country at the moment excuse me if I don't think this rises to the level of world hunger, youth violence in the inner cities, a double digit unemployment rate or the need to revamp health care in this country. Yes no dog should suffer, just like no child should be unwanted and unloved. There are 60 on petfinder right now. Not everyone uses petfinder and I have at least one experience with OES rescue simply not taking in a dog (who was nearly euthanized because of it). I'm not sure what this has to do with the original subject matter though. I agree, Heather, we have gotten a little off the subject. I understand that this is a very controversial subject, but I was simply asking for assistance in the area. |
Lil Walty wrote: kerry wrote: Since there are what? less than 20 OES in rescue looking for homes in the country at the moment excuse me if I don't think this rises to the level of world hunger, youth violence in the inner cities, a double digit unemployment rate or the need to revamp health care in this country. Yes no dog should suffer, just like no child should be unwanted and unloved. There are 60 on petfinder right now. Not everyone uses petfinder and I have at least one experience with OES rescue simply not taking in a dog (who was nearly euthanized because of it). I'm not sure what this has to do with the original subject matter though. Neither did I when she asked whether I was active in rescue |
kerry wrote: Neither did I when she asked whether I was active in rescue You suggested that we stop the animal rights agenda when someone asked for legitimate help in a rescue operation, what did you expect? |
6Girls wrote: It's the "dogs are property" thing you and I have talked about on so many
occasions. You can only help if they ask for help. Other than that, you have to step back and let it play out. Jaci, you do more privately for rescue than a lot of funded rescues even do. I give you a ton of credit for everything you do and give. I don't think a lot of people realize just how much you do because you're so darned humble about it! |
| Kristine, I heard a little about what Wisconsin is doing to breeders... it's not right for breeders who are responsible and are working to improve the breed. But I also did not use the word "guardianship". I said this...
Quote: Stronger, better defined, animal rights are needed if we are to be happy that dogs are simply property. Quote: As for do "I actively "do rescue"", in NY, rescue people are falling over themselves and importing puppies to supply the demand they have created by pulling at people's heartstrings. Yes, I heard this before about some areas of the country. And in others they're euthanizing them. I'm one person with limited funds but I did pay 3 release fees this year for dogs in kill shelters or animal control... I spoke with one AC officer an hour before the vet was to arrive to inject the dog because he had been there for weeks. The AC officer thought the dog deserved a chance so he kept him weeks longer than usual. Quote: Since there are what? less than 20 OES in rescue looking for homes in the country at the moment excuse me if I don't think this rises to the level of world hunger, youth violence in the inner cities, a double digit unemployment rate or the need to revamp health care in this country. Yes no dog should suffer, just like no child should be unwanted and unloved.
Where did I say it did? I don't believe any comparison was made or that I said you had to care more. Child forums focus on children... OES forums focus on dogs. |
ButtersStotch wrote: 6Girls wrote: It's the "dogs are property" thing you and I have talked about on so many occasions. You can only help if they ask for help. Other than that, you have to step back and let it play out. Jaci, you do more privately for rescue than a lot of funded rescues even do. I give you a ton of credit for everything you do and give. I don't think a lot of people realize just how much you do because you're so darned humble about it! Well said Jill! I could not agree more. |
| In my own way I was just trying to point out that there is a need for perspective. |
Lil Walty wrote: kerry wrote: Neither did I when she asked whether I was active in rescue You suggested that we stop the animal rights agenda when someone asked for legitimate help in a rescue operation, what did you expect? She probably expected, as I do, that we all take a step back and look at exactly what we're trying to accomplish. And why. And, btw, there are never 60 OES up for adoption on petfinder. Maybe there was at one time, but not in the last few years at any rate. A large proportion of listings are mixes, some probably not even OES mixes, but that's OK, and then there are the already adopted ones that are still listed (WI has one - I can't get our petfinder person to take her down, why she insists on leaving dogs up I truly don't understand), the requests for foster help etc. All of the active listings very legitimate. But the fact remains that there are many, many fewer purebred OES in rescue than there used to be and we can be grateful for that at least. As for the issues at hand, Betsy, I figured you simply meant to be there if there were any OES that ended up not being sold. But OES rescue folks have gotten overzealous before and bought dogs from auctions. And, yes, it is very controversial. These auctions are clearly playing us 
Beyond that it's amazing how few OES owners there apparently are in Arkansas. I can remember right before memorial day weekend when SE rescue was trying to spring a girl from a very accomodating AR shelter, yet how many snags there were and how much easier it would have been if there was someone on the ground in that state. Surely with the incredible geographic diversity on this list there must be someone 
Kristine |
| Oh, you guys stop it... others do so much more.
Kerry and Kristine... I apologize. I'm seeing this from the neglect side where there is suffering, not the responsible ownership side. I'm frustrated with two recent situations with breeders. A breeder that has been mentioned on this forum on occasion in the past in particular. There's proof of false Puppyfind ads, two vets saw these dogs, photos of their conditions. The formerly cryptorchid proven stud is facing euthanasia if a sanctuary can't assist. It's just one dog... no big deal in the scheme of things. But we digress... let's get back to the focus of this thread. It's about what can be done, if anything, for the dogs in Arkansas. As for what is trying to be accomplished... To see if even a couple of these USDA breeding dogs can get out of breeding. More breeding dogs just thrown together without testing/planning means more problems down the road for OES rescues. Again repeating what was said from the very beginning- "...Instead, advocates who are intent on traveling to xxx are encouraged to wait in the parking lot and offer to take, free of charge, any dogs that did not sell since many breeders do not want to take unsold dogs back to their kennels...." |
| Thank goodness for the angel that drove her to me! He spent 11 hours, one way, to get her to me. Hey, I wonder where that business card is that he left me with? |
kerry wrote: One thing we can do is to stop playing into the hands of the AR by using undefined and squishy terms like puppy mill which can and has been applied to all breeders and I am sure would be quickly applied to some oes.org breeders.
And let's be glad the federal courts have confirmed that pets are indeed property under the law, as that is the only way we can be assurred someone who thinks we might have too many dogs or some other subjective benchmark cant come into our homes and remove them. What term is more appropriate for a "breeder" that mass produces mix breed dogs, sells them on consignment, keeps them in large groups and in small kennels outside??? I will stick with puppy mill terminology. Where are you counting only 20 OES in rescue? Alot of times, dogs in foster care are not listed available until the foster homes medically treat and unpack whatever baggage they may have... I know of well over 20 just with the few rescue people I do talk to. Just wondering where the count came in?? Anyway, sorry Betsy back to the topic.... Good Luck, let us know if we can help! |
Donner's Mom wrote: What term is more appropriate for a "breeder" that mass produces mix breed dogs, sells them on consignment, keeps them in large groups and in small kennels outside???
Kath, how about the term: breeder that mass produces mix breed dogs, sells them on consignment, keeps them in large groups and in small kennels outside. Or how else will you distinguish him from other puppymillers like me?  And that's the whole point. The terms is meaningless these days. Less to spell out though.
Betsy, I had forgotten how you finally got that resolved and what a godsend that person was. Was it an OES person even? What a guy 
One option if there are no OES people nearbye is to check with other rescue groups and see if they have anyone going who might be able to keep an eye on things and grab any OES as needed. The nice thing about the auction list is that you can take an educated guess at which breed groups will try to have people on the ground there. If some of them have people pretty locally that may be an option. I'll see if I at least know anyone in the other breeds who might be able to point me in the right direction (contacts) and maybe others could consider doing the same? Kristine |
| Yes, he was an OES guy. You for are right, he was an angel. He has done this type of thing for TX rescue also. I had not thought about other breed rescues, that is a definite possibility.
I just wanted to sady that I think that waiting in the parking lot would be a great idea for more reasons than one. I am sure that any soft hearted person seeing a sheepdog in the auction environment would cave and bid on the dog. I just wonder though, since this appears it would be held at the "kennel", would the dogs ever make it outside of the tent? That would be something else to consider. |
Quote: I just wonder though, since this appears it would be held at the "kennel", would the dogs ever make it outside of the tent?
Yeah, that's why I wrote to them directly. I don't have any great expectations though. But with the economy the way it is though, it's good to cover all bases. |
| I live in Little Rock, Ar. This is just about 2 hours away from me. I in no way "need" another OES. My 7 month old is enough.....BUT this absolutely breaks my heart.
I think I'm going to go out there on Saturday. I have never been to a dog auction...actually, it kind of freaks me out (I researched for MONTHS before I found the perfect breeder for my Woodrow). Advice???????? |
| There are at least two rescue groups willing to take these dogs into foster care. The main dilemma would be the transport to get them wherever they will be fostered. |
| I maybe able to go depends on how I feel friday night.Could posibly take two if I do,or help in transport.Will let you know friday evening if I do. |
| Any news??? |
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