HELP! my 2 girls were fighting (BAD)
This has us worried because they were going at it like it was to the death. anyone ever had this? |
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How old are they, and how long have they been together? I have alot of experience with fighting girls.  |
| Just my view and it may not be right but I'd think guarding an object... the excitement of play can also heighten aggressive displays... maybe jealousy.
When we play ball, we try to make sure everyone playing gets a chance with it. It's not much fun if the faster dog always has the ball. You might also try using 2, 3, 4 balls instead of just one. Darby is usually content to simply run after the others chasing the ball. She'll carry a small Jolly Ball instead. But there are times she likes to get the ball too. Emma can be a snot sometimes... she'll often take it away from her but Darby doesn't really care. If you see toys/chews that aren't being played with just lying on the floor, pick them up. Dogs can be knuckle heads over things they don't even really want at the moment... they just don't want the other dog to have it. I wouldn't leave them together unsupervised if you feel there's the potential for a problem. Best to err on the side of caution. |
| did either of them have any bites other than on their head? DOgs engage in fight like behavior for a number of reasons and if they are not inflicting bites - or only superficial bites on their heads I wouldn't be too upset. I would say NEVER get between them. Yell, smack them on the butt or turn on the hose. All are preferable to getting bitten however unintentionally. And yes girls fight amongst themselves more than boys IME. |
| Badly involves bloodshed. Was there any?
A dog can do considerable damage, if he or she wants to. When there's lots of noise but no damage it's typically two dogs working things out within the pack. My Mace and my foster dog periodically go at it. Foster bitch is a pushy thing and Mace is down the ranks in the pack and so more subject to get caught up in fluctuations in rank. For some reason they especially like to get into it in the middle of the night. I wake up long enough to tell them to knock it off, they do and we all go back to sleep  Probably she and Daph are discussing who gets to sleep on the bed. For the longest time Mace wouldn't even let her in the bedroom and I supported Mace's opinion on the matter.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned but it could be much doggie ado about nothing. Kind of watch them and if they're all noise and stop when you tell them too, it may just blow over once they sort things out. I won't physically get involved by the way. Just use my voice, deep and gruff. You have to stay very cool and detached and assertive or you end up adding to the bad energy rather than diffusing it. That or grumpy as all get out because they woke you up AGAIN with their piddly little squabbles   
And I do mean growling and carrying on and up on their hind legs clasping each other and teeth going like they mean it. Which, thankfully, they don't in my case or somebody would have ended up shredded by now. Posturing can play a large role in dog behavior. It can sound and look loud and horrible - and some times it truly is; there's nothing worse than a genuine bitch fight - but, more often, they work it out among each other and get on with their lives. OES are typically good in packs. Kristine |
| You gals are absolutely right. The first few times we view a dogfight in our own pack, we can get so caught up in how violent a confrontation appears. It can be so fast paced, ugly and loud. We're often shocked, taken aback, that our precious sweet babies are capable of such a horrid display When it's all over and you check your dogs, you find there's not a single scratch on either. It was actually just a loud wrestling match.
Others are indeed out to do harm. I don't think you can know which you have until they've been through a few squabbles. Just try to find ways to avoid the potential for conflict and keep the peace. To short circuit a fight in the house, I've pushed furniture into the dogs' space. Like a big chair, a table, ottoman. It's often enough to break the focus. Send them in different directions, redirect their attention so it doesn't start up again. |
| Dogs at the dog park have often started something (try to hump him, etc.)with Harry and he will have no part of it. He would "fight them to the death" and they know it. So it usually ends as quickly as it starts. I prefer to let him handle it as he seems to hold his own and sends a very clear "back off bucko" message so that they leave him alone.
At a recent dog park fund raiser, a pittie mix decided to take on the sheepdog. The ensuing fight caught everyone's attention and I turned around to see the owners grab their dog from Harry and promptly snap a muzzle on it and put it in the other dog park. I am guessing that this was a regular thing with this dog based on their reaction and the forthcoming apologies. I assured them that Harry was no worse for the wear. Harry without skipping a beat went looking for the next "sure thing" to play with thus maintaining his status as the Play Ho.
I find that letting the dogs resolve their own issues within reason is best, but I agree with the others who supported the occasional underdog. |
| ^^^
I am more of a thrower 
Unlike some who have been known to throw their bodies into the fray I have been known to throw a book or a toy - whatever is handy. |
| Pearl only possessivly guards Dino around Heart, at times.
Each dogs has petting and loving time with the MAN and if it is Pearl's time and Heart nudges her way in between, Pearl has been known to 'attack'..no growling, no barking, just a quick swift.."GET OOUUTTT!!". .Heart being no DUMMY, retreats to the tuffet, shakes it off and runs to 'MOM".... |
| first off they had 5 balls going at the same time. Also there were NO bites that we can see. They are ok now but I have never had any of this before so please understand my worry.
The floor is full of toys that many are 3-4 the same so they get there own. |
| this may sound crazy the olny time my day and dolly drew blood was 2 times in 10 yrs both times was over a ball and a full moon.. scared me to death and there was a trip to the vet with puncture wounds |
| I have the problem, but it isn't toys that get my two going... it's food. Not even their food, it's our food. If Josh and I are eating, the dogs will try to weasel in real close. Next thing you know, you have growling and snarling, because they think the other is getting something (which neither one of them gets any of it).
They also do this over bully sticks and other treats. Asterisk is notorious at grabbing Wendel's when he gets up. She'll lay on his and eat hers. Luckily, Josh and I can easily take their treats at any time without problems from the dogs. It can be really, really scary. We have just learned to recognize what is setting them off and then trying to avoid the problem in the future. |
| It's not bad fighting unless someone walks away bleeding or limping-- human or dog.
Is it possible they wound up fighting because one accidentally bit the other one while going for the ball, like in the lip, and something escalated? Combined with the excitement of getting the ball, if one or the other thought the other one was attacking, that could explain the response. Even if you have several of the same toy laying around, I'd pick them up for awhile anyway. Even though it's the same toy, the dog doesn't care about that. Sometimes it's just about taking the toy away from the other one so it doesn't matter what it is, it can cause tension. |
Quote: first off they had 5 balls going at the same time. Also there were NO bites that we can see. They are ok now but I have never had any of this before so please understand my worry.
I completely understand your worry... I wasn't trying to belittle it. I wish someone had told me early on that "fights" can really be just a lot of commotion. Ever had such a high level of fear that you tasted copper? Yup, I was THAT scared when my OES-mix's got into it with my BC-mix and there was good reason for that fear. If this was a first fight for you, you didn't know what might happen. I do still have one dog in the pack that's a biter/shaker... grab hold of a dog's neck and shake it good. I would have to step in and remove Meesha from conflicts or end up with a vet visit. Doing this is NOT recommended for most dog fights but I raised this 40 pound little poop from about 6-7 weeks of age. Maggie had to go in for surgery to suture up a wound in the ear cartridge one time. There's no need to fight like that here and I won't tolerate it. Annoying as heck that they so often go for the ears. Any type of confrontation with others would set this dog off and she'd start biting the dog nearest to her... even if the conflict was actually in a different room.
She too is a bit of a challenging dog (she's never bitten a human) but I chose to make it work and it's paid off. She's gotten so much better... maybe it's just age. Or timing it right in allowing several other dogs in the pack to set her straight on just one occasion... no blood but she gained more respect for them. She now gives a quick nip, I tell her to leave it and that's usually it. |
| Recently Laika and Langley escalated a little to high for my liking. I yelled no! loudly and deeply. Laika moved off turned her back to us and laid down and wouldn't look at Langley and me
the most that happens usually is she will mount him he will go limp and she will get mad and grab him around the neck and make that grunting noise (have you ever seen a dog bite a cat usually like a cob of corn? she does that) and if it is to much Langley turns around and tries to take her out at the legs and snaps his teeth all I hear from him is click click of the teeth snapping. |
This is a regular occurence with my two. 
Usually they've been playing out back and as another post mentioned one has accidentally bit the other on the ear or something and it on. It sounds terrible, but I usually leave them to it. At most I yell cut it out, sometimes they even listen. 
They also have a running battle of barking, growling and snarling nearly every time we get to the off lead park. Tiggy chases Rastus barking in his ear which he hates. Cant say I blame him either she's pretty loud. Then he gets sick of it and has a go at her telling her to back off. They keep running though. 
Then they happily go their seperate ways. Its kind of annoying as many who dont know us at the park freak out about it. One person told me I should intervene. I just looked at them stunned and asked how they suggested I do that. One I dont run that fast and two I dont have tough skin or teeth. By then it was all over and they were buddies again.
Generally Tiggy backs down as Rastus is still the alpha (just) but if Rastus accidentally gets her too hard she gets mad and escalates things to the next level. Rastus immediately backs out and runs to me for saving.
It cracks me up! He has this look on his face "oh s--t, what in the heck happened there, save me Mom!" I think he knows that if he were to really push it Tiggy just might win and then he wouldnt be alpha anymore. So being an older and wilier dog he backs out before he can lose.
I havent witnessed too many serious dog fights thank goodness, but in my experience the serious fights are actually less noisy, as the dogs are too busy inflicting serious damage to be growling and barking as much. |
spacegirl21 wrote: Recently Laika and Langley escalated a little to high for my liking. I yelled no! loudly and deeply. Laika moved off turned her back to us and laid down and wouldn't look at Langley and me
the most that happens usually is she will mount him he will go limp and she will get mad and grab him around the neck and make that grunting noise (have you ever seen a dog bite a cat usually like a cob of corn? she does that) and if it is to much Langley turns around and tries to take her out at the legs and snaps his teeth all I hear from him is click click of the teeth snapping. that is how my two play - to the uninitiated it is terrifying - no wonder the neighbors keep their kids out of the yard |
| Laika is constantly mounting Langley all i can do is laugh. I had people over they found it very funny. I think they don't have tails makes it more weird!
How weird is this! 
My brother took a picture when he was down visiting that is so funny. She has him pinned on the couch and he is turned back looking at the camera with the weirdest expression; priceless. |
spacegirl21 wrote: Laika is constantly mounting Langley all i can do is laugh. I had people over they found it very funny. I think they don't have tails makes it more weird!
How weird is this! My brother took a picture when he was down visiting that is so funny. She has him pinned on the couch and he is turned back looking at the camera with the weirdest expression; priceless. this is a dominance type activity. Morgan is always doing it to the Newf, but will stop on command as I really don't want to encourage any constant hierarchy issues between them. |
| Yah so far I let them be because he just go limp and falls to the floor. But shouldn't there be a dominate dog not over me of course but within each other. |
| I have my to little boogers.....
Finn and Pooh! Usually in the night but, always over me (who can be the closest) I know the simplest fix would be to not allow them on the bed BUT, that ain't a happening!
I yell "STOP" and Pooh listens but, yes Finn is deaf SO.....I walk away! Even in the middle of a tuffle he has to know where Mommy is! I learned this the hard way
Neither of the boys ever hurt eachother outside of a scratch. Goodness, could I go on with this subject but, yes it is scary! |
spacegirl21 wrote: Yah so far I let them be because he just go limp and falls to the floor. But shouldn't there be a dominate dog not over me of course but within each other.
There is always a dominate dog and it changes every few minutes. |
kerry wrote: There is always a dominate dog and it changes every few minutes.
Ain't that the truth
And also by the phase of the moon (you think I'm joking? Stop by a beginner agility class the night of a full moon! ), hormonal status, non-hormonal status, what they had for dinner, who went where and did what and lord only knows what else.
That's part of what makes a pack of dog so interesting. The everchanging dynamics. Kristine |
| What I ended up doing with my girls, because Violet is a "party pooper", Asia is a "horder" and poor China is the one getting taken advantage of. I take one dog out in the yard at a time to play ball...that way they all get their exercise. |
Quote: What I ended up doing with my girls, because Violet is a "party pooper", Asia is a "horder" and poor China is the one getting taken advantage of. I take one dog out in the yard at a time to play ball...that way they all get their exercise.
Finding ways to make it work
As for humping, we put a stop to it early on. I wasn't sure what was going to happen when we brought Bumble in. He did it a few times, twice to me, before he was told firmly to knock it off (thanks Lisa ). Kaytee will still on occasion sit on Bumble like this http://oesusa.com/BumbleAndKaytee042009.jpg but we stop that too. I don't want a pack of dogs trying to dominate each other. |
6Girls wrote: I don't want a pack of dogs trying to dominate each other.
Party pooper!  
They'll do it anyway. Because they're dogs. Just in more subtle and G rated ways
Watch the eyes. It's fascinating. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: 6Girls wrote: Watch the eyes. It's fascinating. Kristine And the body language too, you can pick up on how serious a tuffle will be, even stop it before it happens if it is more then just sorting out who is boss
Babette humped Syd a few times, she is 10 kg's lighter then him so I suppose it was her way of telling him Sheepie girls Rule
She has not done it for a long time now, Syd has learnt Babs might be smaller but she outsmarts him & dominates that mere man in this house |
Quote: Party pooper!
Yeah but maybe I should explain... The first ever dog class I attended was with Maggie... she was probably around 5 1/2 months old. One male in particular kept humping her to the point that is was darn irritating... she was a shy dog to start with. The trainer said it was just part of dog behavior... that Maggie had to tell him herself to knock it off. Well, I don't want my dogs to have to tell another off. I feel the person on the other end of that dog's leash should be controlling their dog. I see it as a nuisance behavior that could start a fight and one that's been easy enough to curb early on. And... I'm a prude. Our property is grandfathered commercial in a residential area and I didn't want a conga line of humping dogs at the fence line to be the main attraction. |
| Deana, it could just be a pack shift'. Now that Richard is home all day the dynamic has changed - It isn't necessarily negative but the dogs can't help but know that Daddy's there all the time. It might just have been that, even though there were 5 balls in play the girls were arguing over who got to bring it back to Daddy. It's a natural behavior - Even subtle changes in the dynamic can cause behaviors you've never seen before. Pay attention to how they behave now versus how they were when Richard was at work all day - I'm betting you'll see a difference.
When it's time to play, practice one ball, one dog at a time. The other two watch until it's their turn. That way everybody gets a chance, nobody is dominant, and Richard and YOU are in charge. Once they understand who's the boss, they can all go after the ball. |
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