Is this even an OES??
I have talked to a "breeder" that has ACA registered dogs. (hmmm...she is is surrendering a deaf one) I had never heard of it so, I looked it up. Maybe it is just me but, that doesn't look like an OES to me  |
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| Wow doesn't look like one to me, at least not a pure bred. |
OMG... and she's probably "breeding to standard" too.  
I don't have the best eye for these things but I'll be greatly surprised if this dog is a good representation of the breed. |
| Isn't the ACA just a kind of fake registry for dogs that the AKC wouldn't register? I think the only real qualification is that the dog is breathing... maybe not even that.
That whole site is a grammatical mess and the info for the breed characteristics all seem a bit off. That alone makes it seem pretty disreputable. |
| This particular breeder is crossing everything sorry
but, can you imagine a Aushkey (something like that) Aussie/Huskey.. how active is that gonna be. 
Of course she has the Sheepadoodle....waiting for a pic of the deaf boy to see if he is an oes at all. |
| To my uneducated eye...its a sheepdog |
| SPECIAL SKILLS: Sheepdog and family pet.
not particularly alert rarely displays dominant behavior This person does not know sheepdogs very well. The first one under special skills cracked me. The second one, hmmm someone tell my dogs that The third...I've seen tons of posts giving advice that you need to show the dog that YOU are the pack leader. Simon and I have many disagreements about who runs the show here. He losses but not without a fight first. |
| Looks like a mutt to me. |
| Looks like Rudie (a mutt) to me! |
| I belive that would be a bearded collie?
First, no offense, they are from PA and that is the country's biggest state for puppy mill puppies...well, maybe Missouri and Iowa come under that as well, but PEnn is known as the puppy mill capitoal of the US 
What organization is the American Canine Association (ACA)? I need to research it a bit. I would bet my bottom dollar this is NOT a reputable breeder off the referral list, has never shown a dog in their life and has no motive other than $$$$$ in breeding... |
ButtersStotch wrote: I think the only real qualification is that the dog is breathing... maybe not even that.
Nah, you just need to have $17.00  |
| It is just a registry....nothing else. People who don't know any better think they "have a dog with papers", which indeed they do. Just not AKC papers. |
Its a muppet breed. 
I wondered about the description, I wouldnt have said that they're necessarily a good dog for inexperienced dog people, just on coat alone. |
Quote: Isn't the ACA just a kind of fake registry for dogs that the AKC wouldn't register? I think the only real qualification is that the dog is breathing... maybe not even that. Quote: Nah, you just need to have $17.00
Wow, sounds like an upstanding group, filled with integrity. To me the pix looks more Beardie than sheepie. My first thought was Terrier x poodle. Shedding a garbage bag's worth.....huh?
Plays with balls.......huh?
Not dominate......huh?
Blue??.....huh? I've seen one blue in my life.
Not white patches on blue back.......huh? She in England?? |
| I liked the line that said these are only guidelines, breeders can breed for whatever characteristics they want.
LOL What a joke. It would be funny if it wasn't duping buyers into thinking it was an actual breed betterment organization. |
Ron wrote: LOL What a joke. It would be funny if it wasn't duping buyers into thinking it was an actual breed betterment organization.
Exactly! I went thru the same thing when my MIL was looking for a Westie years ago. She kept showing me these ads with CKC, ACA etc. before the names & asking if that meant they were good. I never was able to get thru to her that even AKC before the name wasn't any kind of guarantee of a good Westie. They had always had Westies but mostly I think from BYB. I finally convinced her to talk to Westie Rescue & we got her a very nice one thru them. |
| Grrrr... stuff like that just.... just.... uuughhhh... family friendly forum family friendly forum family friendly forum ..... *smacks head on desk.... |
I liked this disclaimer at the bottom  |
Ron wrote: It would be funny if it wasn't duping buyers into thinking it was an actual breed betterment organization.
Breed betterment? Try duping them into thinking whatever that dog is, is an actual BREED The dog depicted is adorable, though. Whatever it is. Looks more Beardie to me, but not PB that either.
As the AKC increased their number of inspectors etc an increasing number of "breeders" got their registration priviledges suspended with some heavy fines on top of that. That means the dogs they currently own have their registrations suspended, which also means nothing that dog produces (i.e. puppies) can be registered with the AKC. Being able to say the parents are registered adds a nice chunk of change to the puppies selling price, so new "registries" sprung up to fill that void. Let's face it - a majority of people can't tell the difference. Like Marilyn said, the AKC, too, is ultimately just a registry and the papers that come with a number of AKC registerable puppies might be useful for papertraining the puppy  but that's about. However they are pretty darn strict about things like keeping parentage straight, which is how many of these mass/multiple breed producers got themselves in trouble with the AKC in the first place.
The designer dog craze is probably the best thing that ever happened to them. Now they can take their oopses, give them a cute name, "register" them with one of these fine organizations, and charge double!
Kathy - if it's deaf, it's quite likely a PB OES Was she using him to make doodles?
Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: Kathy - if it's deaf, it's quite likely a PB OES
Was she using him to make doodles? KristineThis sentence cracked me up. If your not part of the dog world it is incomprehensible at best. And it might be rude at worst.
Aint the english language and all its shorthand grand. I still say a muppet breed. Really cute but the parents are  |
| Just more of my two cents I added before...The problem stems from the AKC not cracking down on these so called "breeders". They know what is going on. They are willing to register ANY puppy that is purebred, hences people think they are getting "papers" - and they are - despite where that purebred comes from. I go crazy when I hear people getting puppies, not just OES, from a local store and they say, but it came with "papers"
The AKC is all about $$$$$.....THEY should be promoting geting puppies from reputable breeders... |
I just think it is ever so sad, people trying to do the right thing are duped into thinking they are buying correctly a registered pure bred dog. It is such a scam and will fool heaps of people into thinking they are buying correctly regardless of the breed.  |
| Who knows what he was "used" for I was initially told he was 7m/o now...
she has to check his papers for age?
I haven't seen a pic yet and right now we are at full capacity and not able to take a Sheepdoohuskaus!(although I am sure he is cute!) I am still waiting on pics.... Although I live 9 hours south of her she is willing to help transport 1 hour east or west!
(does that help??) I think I am going to offer to drive right to her house! It would be so much better to meet him in his environment!  |
| I'm going to jump around a bit so hold on
Very frustrating right now... there are just so many OESs in need of help in some areas. Other areas don't appear to have been hit so hard...yet anyway. Quote: I haven't seen a pic yet and right now we are at full capacity and not able to take a Sheepdoohuskaus!(although I am sure he is cute!) I bet he would be cute too and he's just as worthy as a pure bred dog. I know it would hurt you to turn it away too. But you know it... it can take longer for a breed specific rescue to place a mix. If the inn is full of mixes, the next OES that comes along has to be turned away. And funding is tight right now as we all know. One of my area's rescues closed down last month due to not enough money- http://www.petsaferescue.org Very sad. Did anyone see this bill that's been proposed by Rep. Thaddeus McCotter of Michigan? http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3501: Just wondering if it might help to encourage responsible pet ownership. If you have to take Yo-Yo  to the vet you could claim it as a deduction! It would be nice (too bad it's not per dog ) but I'll be surprised if a Republican can get anything passed right now. Quote: "...The bill would allow any taxpayer who legally owns one or more domesticated animals to take an annual income tax deduction of up to $3,500 for pet care expenses, including veterinary care costs..." https://secure2.convio.net/aspca/site/A ... 6e1.app40b |
Ashley wrote: Just more of my two cents I added before...The problem stems from the AKC not cracking down on these so called "breeders". They know what is going on. They are willing to register ANY puppy that is purebred, hences people think they are getting "papers" - and they are - despite where that purebred comes from. I go crazy when I hear people getting puppies, not just OES, from a local store and they say, but it came with "papers"
The AKC is all about $$$$$.....THEY should be promoting geting puppies from reputable breeders... I'm afraid I'm not following your logic. The AKC lost a ton of revenue precisely by cracking down on subpar largescale commercial breeders, which is why these in turn invented their own registries. So these alternate registries are the AKC's fault because they refused to look the other way...? Kristine |
| I guess I was ranting my own personal opinion. But, many people feel they are getting a puppy from a "reputable breeder" when they go to a local pet store and are told it comes with "papers". Just the idea of "papers" make people believe the breeder is reputable. If AKC stopped providing "papers" to all "purebred" dogs, perhaps it would force people to research and seek out true professional reputable breeders.
But I will admit, I am not up to date of AKC's policies. Just disappointed such a large organization dedicated to dogs can not do more to stop puppy mill breeding. |
Ashley wrote: I guess I was ranting my own personal opinion. But, many people feel they are getting a puppy from a "reputable breeder" when they go to a local pet store and are told it comes with "papers". Just the idea of "papers" make people believe the breeder is reputable. If AKC stopped providing "papers" to all "purebred" dogs, perhaps it would force people to research and seek out true professional reputable breeders.
But I will admit, I am not up to date of AKC's policies. Just disappointed such a large organization dedicated to dogs can not do more to stop puppy mill breeding. Fair enough. That raises another interesting question: what is a puppymill? The definition of, I mean. So we know exactly what the AKC should be working against? Kristine |
| That dog definately looks like a bearded collie....my aunt had three of them years ago. They do come in the blue, gray or white like an OES, but they also come in shades of brown to light tan and white. |
Ashley wrote: I guess I was ranting my own personal opinion. But, many people feel they are getting a puppy from a "reputable breeder" when they go to a local pet store and are told it comes with "papers". Just the idea of "papers" make people believe the breeder is reputable. If AKC stopped providing "papers" to all "purebred" dogs, perhaps it would force people to research and seek out true professional reputable breeders.
But I will admit, I am not up to date of AKC's policies. Just disappointed such a large organization dedicated to dogs can not do more to stop puppy mill breeding. I have to ech Kristine's comment - what is a apuppy mill? and add my own question, why are we allowing the AR people to define the pet conversation when they don't have a stake in it, by using their terms? I also think AKC does a lot we don't realize with the Legislative action etc, bu tremember thay are only a club of all the breed clubs. If we want them and the breed clubs to do more we should be joining the breed clubs and getting actively involved in them as well as other activities. Just a thought. |
Kerry, don't forget the AKC's Canine Health Foundation 
As usual you skipped three steps and cut to the heart of the matter. Me, I was just seriously curious what the going working definition of puppy mill is. So in lieu of feefback, I did some research and found an interesting pattern that confirmed what a couple of hundred animal rights activists who descended upon our state capital to cry and wail about the evil of breeders this week were ranting about: I am a breeder, so ergo I am a puppy mill. So now I know. I'll leave the rest of this thread as it was intended - the meandering mill definition in the hands of the animal rights industry is a fascinating topic in its own right, another time, another place. This Puppy Miller spent so much time working on the OESCA Health Survey report this week that her dogs do indeed look pretty scuzzy, befitting an evil abuser like myself, really. So tomorrow will be spent grooming them so my CH Puppy Mill dogs and I can put on an agility demo for a rescue group on Sunday. I'm sure there is some irony there somewhere
Have a great weekend, everybody. Kristine |
Mad Dog wrote: I'm sure there is some irony there somewhere
Have a great weekend, everybody. Kristine As usual, you made my day . It started out really bad with the bakery losing my boss' birthday cake . Continued to get worse but now is climbing back up! And a good weekend to you too from someone who is going to finally get back to a dog show after a 4 month absence |
ChSheepdogs wrote: Mad Dog wrote: I'm sure there is some irony there somewhere Have a great weekend, everybody. Kristine As usual, you made my day . It started out really bad with the bakery losing my boss' birthday cake . Continued to get worse but now is climbing back up! And a good weekend to you too from someone who is going to finally get back to a dog show after a 4 month absence Have a great time Marilyn! Glad to hear the shoulder is better. |
| Not to belabor the point, but when I think "puppy mill", I am picturing a person breeding dogs in unsanitary condtions, with no regard to the health of the bitch and using the same one to breed a million times over, never health testing, etc. I think we all have a negative picture of a puppy mill and what that breeder is about.
Whatever the definition is, you must certainly are not in that catagory and in no way did I mean to insinuate you are or insult you or anyone else here. The people on this forum are probably the most knowledgable sheepie people out there. Sorry if anything I said insulted anyone |
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